The Battling, The Injuries and More Injuries

[JoeyFlex5]

there’s so much talent right now in that roster that it’d be hard for them not to be an attractive spot for a prospective coach of player at this point

especially with their league-leading analytics department and newfound organisational stability

In the space of a couple of years they’ve gone from one of the least attractive destinations for prospective free agents and coaches to most attractive

A decade of high draft picks and a shit ton of cap space can work wonders once you pull your head out of your ass

 

[Simba]

A decade of high draft picks and a shit ton of cap space can work wonders once you pull your head out of your ass

They finally found the right people to put it all into action. Dorsey was decent at tearing it down but Berry has been the catalyst they needed to build it all back up. And I think Stefanski still has some room to grow. Could see him being the long term option.

 

[rossihunter2]

They finally found the right people to put it all into action. Dorsey was decent at tearing it down but Berry has been the catalyst they needed to build it all back up. And I think Stefanski still has some room to grow. Could see him being the long term option.

dorsey was a brief dip in an otherwise well-planned rebuild

sashi brown was extremely hard done by to be canned after setting that team up for major success but not being allowed to see the project through - jimmy haslam got too antsy and brought in dorsey who nearly tanked the rebuild

berry has since come in and steadied the ship - and paul di podesta has survived in that building for a reason too

i get the idea behind replacing brown with dorsey on a talent evaluation basis and yes dorsey did take garrett with the 1st pick and baker and denzel ward and supplemented those guys with Nick Chubb and larry ogunjobi

but he also traded away a 1st for odell beckham jr, and didnt get great returns out of some other high picks... david njoku, austin corbett, jabrill peppers, deshone kizer, greedy williams...

he had a ton of capital and didn't do that great with it

Berry has massively steadied the ship - he's got a big decision to make at QB, which will probably define his tenure (whichever way it goes) but otherwise looks well in command of that operation

 

[Simba]

dorsey was a brief dip in an otherwise well-planned rebuild

sashi brown was extremely hard done by to be canned after setting that team up for major success but not being allowed to see the project through - jimmy haslam got too antsy and brought in dorsey who nearly tanked the rebuild

berry has since come in and steadied the ship - and paul di podesta has survived in that building for a reason too

i get the idea behind replacing brown with dorsey on a talent evaluation basis and yes dorsey did take garrett with the 1st pick and baker and denzel ward and supplemented those guys with Nick Chubb and larry ogunjobi

but he also traded away a 1st for odell beckham jr, and didnt get great returns out of some other high picks... david njoku, austin corbett, jabrill peppers, deshone kizer, greedy williams...

he had a ton of capital and didn't do that great with it

Berry has massively steadied the ship - he's got a big decision to make at QB, which will probably define his tenure (whichever way it goes) but otherwise looks well in command of that operation

Dorsey tried the "too hard, too fast" method. He got a few good pieces and then thought he could just go all high end (e.g. OBJ) and make them a good team without considering how all of those guys fit together. That's where Berry has steadied the ship as you mentioned. He's putting the right pieces in place now to build depth and a winning culture. They've had some hiccups this year but that's still undoing some of the bad that Dorsey brought in.

If they had approached this rebuild like the Bengals have been doing (and where Sashi was kinda headed), they could be really scary. I mentioned it when we played them last time... the Bengals aren't there just yet but they have a really steady roster now and it feels like they're a couple pieces away from being a real pain in the ass for a long time.

And then who knows what the fuck the Steelers are doing. Drafting a RB high and then running him until the tires fall off isn't how I'd use my 1st pick with a QB that is basically done but you know... whatever they want to do.

 

[RavensMania]

If I were them, I'd offer him a lengthy deal at somewhat low franchise QB money (probably at like $20-25M a year). That's not going to cripple the franchise at these cap values. If he doesn't like it, he can leave, and I don't think he'll find a strong market in a range above that league-wide. He'll land a starting gig for good money, but I don't see any team paying him above $30M a year at this point.

Cleveland is in a spot with a lot of teams, like Buffalo (not anymore, but before Allen), Jets, Dolphins and a few others, where they don't really have the luxury of being "picky" about their QB. If they manage to draft somebody who's at least competent, I wouldn't be so quick to move off of them just because they're not Brady or elite.

People need to realize some of these franchises have seen multiple decades go by without franchise-level QB play. Baker is probably the best Browns QB they've seen in like 20 years or more. It's a low bar to achieve, but the point being that they've whiffed a TON on QBs, and its not super easy to just say "well he's not great, so lets move on and try again". They could end up with the next Peyton Manning, or the next Mark Sanchez. There's just no way to know.

I have a hard time believing he would sign for 20 to 25m, especially on a lengthy deal. I think some of his play is due to his health this year and he will be better as long as he stays healthy next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he got mid 30s on the open market.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I have a hard time believing he would sign for 20 to 25m, especially on a lengthy deal. I think some of his play is due to his health this year and he will be better as long as he stays healthy next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he got mid 30s on the open market.

I just don't see a team giving him mid 30s on long term. I think a lot of teams can find Baker Mayfield with a first round pick in most draft classes, and that's obviously considerably cheaper.

I don't think he'd take $25M either, but I also don't think his market would be as big as people think. And if a team or two did give him $35M or so, I think its like a 2-3 year deal, or less, and I'm not sure he'd get it all guaranteed.

He very much looks like a Cousins or Garappolo to me. If you surround him with just great talent everywhere, he can win a bunch of games. But you're always going to watch him when he does poorly and think "man we could be so much better".

Granted, those guys got $30M deals. But I think teams are going to start to fade paying players like them that money in the future. I think there's going to be a point in time in the near future when teams just decide that if you're not excellent at QB, they'll go back and take their chances in the draft.

 

[ravenslord]

If Huntley continues to play and play well , I could easily see him as trade bait for a team looking for a starter . Trade or a good draft pick.

 

[RavensMania]

I just don't see a team giving him mid 30s on long term. I think a lot of teams can find Baker Mayfield with a first round pick in most draft classes, and that's obviously considerably cheaper.

I don't think he'd take $25M either, but I also don't think his market would be as big as people think. And if a team or two did give him $35M or so, I think its like a 2-3 year deal, or less, and I'm not sure he'd get it all guaranteed.

He very much looks like a Cousins or Garappolo to me. If you surround him with just great talent everywhere, he can win a bunch of games. But you're always going to watch him when he does poorly and think "man we could be so much better".

Granted, those guys got $30M deals. But I think teams are going to start to fade paying players like them that money in the future. I think there's going to be a point in time in the near future when teams just decide that if you're not excellent at QB, they'll go back and take their chances in the draft.

Yes, Cousins got his deal several years ago when he went to Minnesota. A 3 year 90some million contract. Fully guaranteed and that was several years ago and Jimmy G got his extension after playing 5 or 6 games for the Niners. It was a 5/137m and that was a few years ago as well.

I believe he can get mid 30s on a short term deal. Probably 3 years. I don't really think teams are going to fade paying players like that. Yes, QBs have been a hot commodity coming out of college and many performing well, that won't happen every year either. You will start to see a bunch of busts happen. Right now I feel really bad for Trevor Lawrence, but that's another topic altogether.

You may be right, but we won't know for a year or two if this is true. I doubt you will be though, especially with the rise in cap space with the new TV deals. I think the mid 25m deal is 'mostly' long gone for QBs.

 

[RavensMania]

If Huntley continues to play and play well , I could easily see him as trade bait for a team looking for a starter . Trade or a good draft pick.

Too valuable to trade and unless we can get a day two pick and that won't happen. Much more valuable to us to back up Lamar over the next couple years.

 

[Simba]

If Huntley continues to play and play well , I could easily see him as trade bait for a team looking for a starter . Trade or a good draft pick.

I don't think there's much value there outside of Baltimore honestly. Lack of arm strength and too many mechanical inconsistencies to be an impact starter in the league.

 

[Nurps]

sounds like browns fans were jeering and heckling lamar as he was being carted off too...

stay classy cleveland

I mean, if we're being 100% honest here...... if Big Ben was carted off at the Bank, he'd hardly get a standing ovation lol

 

[RavensMania]

I don't think there's much value there outside of Baltimore honestly. Lack of arm strength and too many mechanical inconsistencies to be an impact starter in the league.

and his lack of arm strength is why he really isn't hitting the deep shots. Not enough touch on the ball and they are more like a crescent moon than touch pass like Lamar has done with Hollywood this season. Now I can't wait for him to actually have some chemistry with Bateman. Watch out NFL

 

[RavensMania]

I mean, if we're being 100% honest here...... if Big Ben was carted off at the Bank, he'd hardly get a standing ovation lol

I certainly hope that isn't true and I for one wouldn't be booing him. Total lack of class for any fanbase. That's a Philly thing to do and of course Cleveland.

 

[Simba]

and his lack of arm strength is why he really isn't hitting the deep shots. Not enough touch on the ball and they are more like a crescent moon than touch pass like Lamar has done with Hollywood this season. Now I can't wait for him to actually have some chemistry with Bateman. Watch out NFL

Yeah he's a great backup. But we saw his two big issues on display... the long windup resulted in a fumble and when he doesn't use that long windup to generate the arm strength, we get the floaters. Great backup for us but you can see the issues and why he went undrafted the more he gets to play.

 

[Nurps]

I certainly hope that isn't true and I for one wouldn't be booing him. Total lack of class for any fanbase. That's a Philly thing to do and of course Cleveland.

There's gonna be classless people in any gameday crowd of 10's of thousands. I don't condone it, nor would I participate, but it's inevitable.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I mean, if we're being 100% honest here...... if Big Ben was carted off at the Bank, he'd hardly get a standing ovation lol

I think that is straight up false.

 

[rmcjacket23]

There's gonna be classless people in any gameday crowd of 10's of thousands. I don't condone it, nor would I participate, but it's inevitable.

As a long time season ticket holder, I agree with you. I don't think Ben would get cheered if he broke a leg, but I don't think there would be a lot of people like that upset about it.

In any game I show up to (which aren't that many these days), it's a 50/50 crap shoot whether or not you're around a bunch of drunks who use Sunday afternoon to be total douches in public. My oldest son is 5, and it'll be at least 5-6 more years before I even entertain the possibility of taking him to a game.

There's some great people that routinely go, and I've met several friends at the Bank, but there is no shortage of terrible human beings that attend football games and treat it like a place where they can be total douches. Doesn't matter what stadium it is.

 

[rossihunter2]

Dorsey tried the "too hard, too fast" method. He got a few good pieces and then thought he could just go all high end (e.g. OBJ) and make them a good team without considering how all of those guys fit together. That's where Berry has steadied the ship as you mentioned. He's putting the right pieces in place now to build depth and a winning culture. They've had some hiccups this year but that's still undoing some of the bad that Dorsey brought in.

If they had approached this rebuild like the Bengals have been doing (and where Sashi was kinda headed), they could be really scary. I mentioned it when we played them last time... the Bengals aren't there just yet but they have a really steady roster now and it feels like they're a couple pieces away from being a real pain in the ass for a long time.

And then who knows what the fuck the Steelers are doing. Drafting a RB high and then running him until the tires fall off isn't how I'd use my 1st pick with a QB that is basically done but you know... whatever they want to do.

especially when their OL was/is in the state it is... and especially with the fact that as great as Najee is, there were at least 2 other RBs with really high grades in that class too

i cant speak down on them too much though - all 4 of their first 4 picks are starting for them on offence and playing pretty key roles - Najee, Freiermuth and Kendrick Green you could have somewhat expected but Dan Moore at LT has been a surprise albeit i wouldnt say his play has been particularly good

 

[rossihunter2]

I just don't see a team giving him mid 30s on long term. I think a lot of teams can find Baker Mayfield with a first round pick in most draft classes, and that's obviously considerably cheaper.

I don't think he'd take $25M either, but I also don't think his market would be as big as people think. And if a team or two did give him $35M or so, I think its like a 2-3 year deal, or less, and I'm not sure he'd get it all guaranteed.

He very much looks like a Cousins or Garappolo to me. If you surround him with just great talent everywhere, he can win a bunch of games. But you're always going to watch him when he does poorly and think "man we could be so much better".

Granted, those guys got $30M deals. But I think teams are going to start to fade paying players like them that money in the future. I think there's going to be a point in time in the near future when teams just decide that if you're not excellent at QB, they'll go back and take their chances in the draft.

cousins was the guy i instantly thought of too - i do think it's harder than you think to find competent QB play even with a 1st round pick... your success rate is likely no more than 50/50 and to have a chance to get one you need to have a high pick (or give up a ton of capital to trade up) - so it's not that easy to actually find someone at baker's level of competency - i mean look at that 2018 class for instance which was a great QB class with 4 top 10 picks at QB: 2 straight up busted, 1 definitely hit and the other we're discussing as being somewhat replaceable... and then lamar hit at the end of the round too - but that's about a 50/50 hit rate with 4 of the 5 QBs taken being top 10 picks... 2017 had a 2/3 hit rate but 2019 had a 1/3 hit rate and 2020 so far looks like it'll be 50/50 too and 2016 was a mess with either 1/3 or 0/3 depending on your feelings on wentz...

i think the browns should try and find someone better but id be surprised if baker didnt get at least a cousins-like deal in the 30-35m range from some team on the open market if he hit free agency because it is actually fairly difficult to find that QB (especially if you don't have high picks available to you)

 

[rossihunter2]

I don't think there's much value there outside of Baltimore honestly. Lack of arm strength and too many mechanical inconsistencies to be an impact starter in the league.

yeah he's got more value here - might be someone a la tyrod who maybe we get lucky and he wins a sub-par QB battle after his rookie deal's up and he nets us some sort of low value comp pick

but more likely he's the backup here until he's not and we're not going to get a return on him (which is fine - he cost nothing in the first place and is already offering more value to us than most udfas ever could/would)