Nurps
Ravens Ring of Honor
Couldnt that also translate into a team who believes they have a good, deep ball QB offering more money for him than we're willing to spend?
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The Bengals, The 3rd Team and The When Will The Injuries End?
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
I more meant in a true contested 50/50 situation with a DB downfield I’m backing the defender - not because he won’t try but because there’s just not much he can do
but that’s entirely separate to his ability to high-point and come back to the ball in close quarters which he’s great at
and he’s good at controlling the ball through contact (with defenders and the ground)
I mean possibly but he’s shown the same skill and value for us that he’d have for other teams - only difference is that so far in his career we’ve been a low volume passing attack
And we also have an aggressive downfield QB anyway (think he’s statistically either the most or 2nd most aggressive downfield thrower in the league)
Agreed in that sense. He does what he can with his size but that's always going to be something that just works against him. Just amazes me how many people say that he's worthless. I don't get it.
people just still holding onto ideas about the WR class he came out of maybe
Deebo samuel, aj brown, dk metcalf, terry mclaurin
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well I'm certainly not anti-extending him, I'm just pointing out that "best receiver the Ravens ever drafted" isn't a good enough reason to extend somebody.
As for the contract itself, I think 5 for 75 is quite a bit low. In today's market, that puts him as a back-end top 20 WR. I'll concede the market for WRs is a little hard to decipher, given that you got guys like Kupp, Diggs and Adams who are significantly underpaid. But I also see guys that I think are significantly overpaid, like Amari Cooper, Kenny Golladay, Allen Robinson, who are making $18-20M per.
So when I look at this, I say to myself, if Hollywood hit the open market, how would he do? Well your premier WRs almost never end up in FA. The best FA WRs you'll find are the Allen Robinson, Kenny Golladay, Jarvis Landry types. Good players no doubt, but they're not like elite level players like an Adams, Hopkins, etc.
So these guys routinely get $17-18M a year on the open market in TODAY's market. And in my opinion, today's market is quite a bit lower than the market will be in two years (when I think Hollywood gets extended) or even next year. I think $18M a year is about the low point that Hollywood would get on the open market in today's NFL. If that's two years from now, I see plenty of scenarios where he's a $20M WR.
marklar
Pro Bowler
I suspect I will regret writing this, but my view on the Brown topic:
The question is not if he's good or not, the question is the salary cap. When he gets to FA (in 2 years time asusming we use the 5th year option, which seems pretty much guaranteed), then we'll still have Andrews who we're paing a fuckton of money to. We'll have 2 years left on Bateman's rookie deal (incl. 5th year again), and do we then spend another massive contract on another pass catcher? It of course will depend on what FAs are available and how the rest of the roster looks like, but I'd lean towards taking that money (*) towards building a pass rush instead (or an O-line).
And that's not any disrespect towards Brown, it is just a question of how much of the cap the team can afford to put towards pass catchers.
(*) My guess would be that Golladay's contract would be a baseline for Brown and add 2 years of cap inflation and I think we'd be looking at 20M+ anually.
The question is not if he's good or not, the question is the salary cap. When he gets to FA (in 2 years time asusming we use the 5th year option, which seems pretty much guaranteed), then we'll still have Andrews who we're paing a fuckton of money to. We'll have 2 years left on Bateman's rookie deal (incl. 5th year again), and do we then spend another massive contract on another pass catcher? It of course will depend on what FAs are available and how the rest of the roster looks like, but I'd lean towards taking that money (*) towards building a pass rush instead (or an O-line).
And that's not any disrespect towards Brown, it is just a question of how much of the cap the team can afford to put towards pass catchers.
(*) My guess would be that Golladay's contract would be a baseline for Brown and add 2 years of cap inflation and I think we'd be looking at 20M+ anually.
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OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Zac Taylor is a fucking liar
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well, couple items here:
1. Andrews cap hit in two years will be $13.4M, which isn't really all that big. Even at its max, it'll be ~$17M, and we're talking about likely a $250M salary cap at that point potentially.
2. Plenty of teams pay market value to two pass catchers at the same time. I don't see why this team would be different.
3. I really don't see where else the money is going. In two years, literally the only player on this defense I see still being paid and paid highly is Marlon. I think Peters will likely be gone or close to gone by that point, and I don't know what happens with Averett or Young, but I don't expect them back or really even that expensive.
4. If we're "building a pass rush", it'll come from the draft, meaning we don't need a lot of salary cap to allocate. Like I'm sure Oweh has the chance to be good and ultimately expensive, but we're 3-4 years, minimum, away from realizing that. And I seriously doubt the Ravens are going to all of the sudden get in the "paying top tier $ to expensive FA" market, which we rarely ever are in. So the rebuilding of the defense will, in my opinion, largely come from the draft.
5. Same thing with the Oline. Who are we paying in 2-3 years that's already on the roster that we aren't paying already? It's Bozeman and nobody else. Stanley already has a large contract, and Zeitler will probably be gone by that point.
this offseason is going to be massively important to rebuild the defence but no one we draft this year is going to factor into any decisions we make about hollywood because any decisions on them are happening a minimum of 3 years down the road...
In terms of potential significant new expenditure we're looking at:
2022:
Lamar
Bozeman
and some spending probably somewhere at corner (either extension for MP or tavon or signing averett... likely 1 of them is having some sort of new contract or extension)
2023:
no one obvious unless MP has been kept and played out the last year of his contract
Hollywood could get extended but wouldn't be a free agent yet (as long as we pick up his 5th year option)
2024 there's lots of guys who are currently slated to become free agents but we've got 2 years to chip away at some of them and work out whether we want to let any of them go (in addition to a potential decision on hollywood):
Zeitler
Boyle
Chuck
Tucker
Gus
JK
Madubuike
but no one in that group is obviously someone who'll right now be top of the market (or break the bank)
the idea that hollywood wont be affordable is only really feasible if we invest a ton of cap on other team's free agents on long-term deals over the next couple of years which is not our modus operandi at all
the only guys with significant cap hits from other teams we've brought in in the last 6 or 7 years have been Calais Campbell (via trade), Marcus Peters (via trade) and Earl Thomas - so unless we completely forget how to draft or unless someone outrageous becomes available on the open market it's extremely unlikely that we'll be spending significant money on other team's free agents that would make it prohibitive to pay market value for hollywood
I agree him simply being the best receiver the Ravens drafted isn't a great reason to extend him. I wasn't arguing that.
I was saying that a lot of the people hating on Hollywood used to use that logic for Joe (Do you remember Grbac? Boller? Joe is the best the Ravens ever drafted!)
I don't know where Hollywood's number will ultimately end up, and I just threw out a number, but you could presumably add a million or three to that and be at a reasonable AAV, in my opinion.
My point was I don't think the Ravens will let Hollywood walk, for a multitude of reasons, honestly, and I don't think he'll break $20M.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well even though he didn’t play the Bengal fans on Reddit are taking shots at Lamar being a RB who will never win anything
airconteka
MVP
You need to take a few days off social media dude.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I’m taking a lifetime off of social media and it’s been amazing
Militant X 1
Ravens Ring of Honor
Lamar hasn't played for nearly 2 weeks now and yet, Bengals fans can't keep his name out of their mouths regardless of the social media platform. He's in their heads! They never forgot the damage that he has done against them with that spin move on two of their bum defenders. That highlight clip is constantly being replayed as a part of commercial introductions on the NFL Network, you know they feel embarrassed every time they see it so, they are salty!
JAAM
Hall of Famer
This. Since 2016. Life has been great
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
I live here, it’s real life too
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Been wanting to for a long time, was only on it for my wife really, about a month ago she decided she wanted to get off of it, I joined her, and it’s been great. Life is fucking blissful when you aren’t drowning in bad news and bickering and assholes trashing eachother over what side they’re on
Watching the all-22 and Josh Johnson did really well under the circumstances - but im watching the tape and watching the receivers (all of them except boykin lol) play really well, run clean routes, get themselves open and work well on the scramble drill and work well as a unit as well in combination... and i just cant help but think that there's a fair few plays where i know Lamar turns an incompletion or a throwaway into a massive chunk or even a TD - the bengals D was there for the taking and it's a shame couldnt get after them
it's a real shame madubuike didnt get to play because watching washington and even isaiah mack put the moves on both guards just makes me wonder what if he'd got to play