Definitely not a Darious Williams thread

[Jacquouille]

So, if I may talk about Darious Williams, did anyone watch his tape against Florida this year? In all honesty, I was stunned.

Based on what I saw, I would've had a 3rd round grade on him and seriously it would have been higher if not for his size. So much to love...

I also think Mark Thompson (RB, Florida) is a UDFA to watch. This dude has immense upside.

 

[RaineV1]

So, if I may talk about Darious Williams

Don't go getting off topic.

From what I've seen, I think Williams, Thompson, and Janarion Grant could make the team. Thompson would have to beat out Allen, but that's doable if he shows more explosion and at least the same ability to catch the ball as Allen. Grant doesn't have much competition as a returner. Show that he can improve our field position consistently without fumbling the ball and he's probably in. Williams would have the hardest fight of the three, but I could see us keeping a high number of CBs.

 

[Truth]

The biggest issue I have with them is their offensive line grades. Just say for example a LT is in a offense where the QB gets the ball out very quickly. You have another LT whose QB takes some time to throw the ball. Obviously the edge rusher has more time to beat the LT whose QB takes more time to throw. So this LT is more likely to get beat and surrender a sack, hit, hurry. Maybe they need to be more specific on how much time each offensive lineman was asked to block for.

True, and that's a fair point. Though for what it's worth, their signature stats include an array of aforementioned numbers for the quarterbacks, i.e. averages of time to throw, until sack or until scramble, and it includes their amount of attempts both under and over 2.5 seconds; so the OL grades can be cross-referenced against the premium stats for additional context. With respect to grades, the RB ones can be unfairly torpedoed with fumbles, and I've wondered about their TE grades as well. I'm personally in the camp of cross-referencing numbers against grades against own tape evals.

 

[Adreme]

True, and that's a fair point. Though for what it's worth, their signature stats include an array of aforementioned numbers for the quarterbacks, i.e. averages of time to throw, until sack or until scramble, and it includes their amount of attempts both under and over 2.5 seconds; so the OL grades can be cross-referenced against the premium stats for additional context. With respect to grades, the RB ones can be unfairly torpedoed with fumbles, and I've wondered about their TE grades as well. I'm personally in the camp of cross-referencing numbers against grades against own tape evals.

I don't like how RBs are judged in the NFL at all. To me the most important stat is yards after contact but even that can be skewed if you are getting hit in the backfield because you never have a chance to make anything happen because you have not developed any momentum. I get there is no simple formula to account for it but I just remember the year before we cut Rice how bad his numbers looked but the biggest problem was the Ravens were by far the worst in the league at yards BEFORE contact and that was a lot of the problem but everyone just focuses on yards per carry which is really a combination of so many factors.

 

[Truth]

I don't like how RBs are judged in the NFL at all. To me the most important stat is yards after contact but even that can be skewed if you are getting hit in the backfield because you never have a chance to make anything happen because you have not developed any momentum. I get there is no simple formula to account for it but I just remember the year before we cut Rice how bad his numbers looked but the biggest problem was the Ravens were by far the worst in the league at yards BEFORE contact and that was a lot of the problem but everyone just focuses on yards per carry which is really a combination of so many factors.

I personally thought that Rice was a less-than-ideal fit in the ZBS. He would continuously stop moving his feet before selecting the lane, allowing defenders to flood the gaps. He'd also run well over his pads, which made him more susceptible to going down with first contact. He was unsurprisingly near the bottom of the rankings among qualifying RBs in yards after contact per attempt from between 2011 and 2012, and then the bottom fell out with our OL struggles in 2013.

 

[Sandtown]

Don't go getting off topic.

From what I've seen, I think Williams, Thompson, and Janarion Grant could make the team. Thompson would have to beat out Allen, but that's doable if he shows more explosion and at least the same ability to catch the ball as Allen. Grant doesn't have much competition as a returner. Show that he can improve our field position consistently without fumbling the ball and he's probably in. Williams would have the hardest fight of the three, but I could see us keeping a high number of CBs.

I not to long ago saw that Buck Allen ranked 7th best as a pass blocker out of running backs in The NFl according to Pro football focus last year. If true then I think Mark Thompson is going to need to do more than be explosive and show the same or better ability with catching the ball as Allen. Right now Allen is The Ravens ideal 3rd down specialist and overall a running back they can trust to pass block when needed to keep the quarterback clean.

 

[Jacquouille]

Don't go getting off topic.

From what I've seen, I think Williams, Thompson, and Janarion Grant could make the team. Thompson would have to beat out Allen, but that's doable if he shows more explosion and at least the same ability to catch the ball as Allen. Grant doesn't have much competition as a returner. Show that he can improve our field position consistently without fumbling the ball and he's probably in. Williams would have the hardest fight of the three, but I could see us keeping a high number of CBs.

I don't think they'll let a talented guy get away. Hill being injured a lot and still recovering, he could start on the PUP, opening a spot for Williams as the second slot.

Not so sure about Grant, White and Moore can handle RS duties and with the new rules not sure the position has enough value to warrant a spot for it alone.

 

[rossihunter2]

I not to long ago saw that Buck Allen ranked 7th best as a pass blocker out of running backs in The NFl according to Pro football focus last year. If true then I think Mark Thompson is going to need to do more than be explosive and show the same or better ability with catching the ball as Allen. Right now Allen is The Ravens ideal 3rd down specialist and overall a running back they can trust to pass block when needed to keep the quarterback clean.

not to mention allen is a good special teamer

 

[rossihunter2]

I don't think they'll let a talented guy get away. Hill being injured a lot and still recovering, he could start on the PUP, opening a spot for Williams as the second slot.

Not so sure about Grant, White and Moore can handle RS duties and with the new rules not sure the position has enough value to warrant a spot for it alone.

id have the opposite take i think - there's going to be even more opportunities for better returns with the new low collisions its going to be extra important to have a good return specialist unless the other team decides to just give up the 25 yards every kick off

 

[DeVito52]

id have the opposite take i think - there's going to be even more opportunities for better returns with the new low collisions its going to be extra important to have a good return specialist unless the other team decides to just give up the 25 yards every kick off

I dont want Grant to make the team solely because of injuries. We just got rid of Camp we don't need another player whos injuries are just as bad.

 

[rossihunter2]

I dont want Grant to make the team solely because of injuries. We just got rid of Camp we don't need another player whos injuries are just as bad.

im not saying grant's the guy for sure and i worry that he'll probably never be the same guy he was in 2016 which is a shame for him - but i dont think we should settle for less good return men

and with regards to moore and white im not sure either of them is necessarily making the team - moore's got the best chance because of his work on special teams but white is also good at special teams and im not sure there's any way that both of them make it onto the roster - and im not sure moore's shown an ability to return punts...

 

[DeVito52]

im not saying grant's the guy for sure and i worry that he'll probably never be the same guy he was in 2016 which is a shame for him - but i dont think we should settle for less good return men

and with regards to moore and white im not sure either of them is necessarily making the team - moore's got the best chance because of his work on special teams but white is also good at special teams and im not sure there's any way that both of them make it onto the roster - and im not sure moore's shown an ability to return punts...

#TeamCutMoore

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

I'd be shocked if Moore got cut when he's one of our best special-teamers. He was also starting to play better at WR towards the end of the year so I think his roster spot is probably safe.

I think White has a harder chance of making the team, but, supposedly, the coaches were high on him last year before the injury. If White comes back and picks up where he left off then I think he could end up making the team. Don't be surprised if Moore and White both make the roster when it's all said and done.

 

[Justdewinit20]

I don't like how RBs are judged in the NFL at all. To me the most important stat is yards after contact but even that can be skewed if you are getting hit in the backfield because you never have a chance to make anything happen because you have not developed any momentum. I get there is no simple formula to account for it but I just remember the year before we cut Rice how bad his numbers looked but the biggest problem was the Ravens were by far the worst in the league at yards BEFORE contact and that was a lot of the problem but everyone just focuses on yards per carry which is really a combination of so many factors.

I actually like the way they grade RBs. They put more emphasis on the RB breaking tackles and forcing missed tackles(creating their own yards). The more talented RBs can make things happen even if they get hit in the backfield. I remember they were extremely high on Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara because of this and they exploded as a rookies. This is the same reason they are high on Rashad Penny and loved the Seahawks pick.

 

[RavensMania]

I actually like the way they grade RBs. They put more emphasis on the RB breaking tackles and forcing missed tackles(creating their own yards). The more talented RBs can make things happen even if they get hit in the backfield. I remember they were extremely high on Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara because of this and they exploded as a rookies. This is the same reason they are high on Rashad Penny and loved the Seahawks pick.

@Truth knows more about this than I do so I’ll let him respond, outside I know he doesn’t like how much it negates them for a fumble. I’ll lt him add to that.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'd be shocked if Moore got cut when he's one of our best special-teamers. He was also starting to play better at WR towards the end of the year so I think his roster spot is probably safe.

I think White has a harder chance of making the team, but, supposedly, the coaches were high on him last year before the injury. If White comes back and picks up where he left off then I think he could end up making the team. Don't be surprised if Moore and White both make the roster when it's all said and done.

i just dont see how white and moore are both going to be considered better players than the other back end of the roster players they'd be competing against

they basically will be competing for the same role too - special teams gunner, return man, 5th/6th wr

i think we'd have to see a training camp injury or have one of the 2 new draft picks absolutely stink this whole offseason (or do something awful) to see a roster spot open up - there's no way we keep 7 wrs with the talent we have at other positions surely?

and i dont put that much stock in the hearsay about tim white... maybe he was something but he also might just have been a shining light in an awful receiving corps - remember he was fighting for the 6th wr spot on a corps that we couldnt wait to completely get rid of and retool - i think he has to outright win the returner job on his own merits and beat out chris moore to get on the roster

there's a serious part of me that thinks neither moore or white will make the roster depending on the special teams value we find elsewhere...

 

[DeVito52]

I'd be shocked if Moore got cut when he's one of our best special-teamers. He was also starting to play better at WR towards the end of the year so I think his roster spot is probably safe.

I think White has a harder chance of making the team, but, supposedly, the coaches were high on him last year before the injury. If White comes back and picks up where he left off then I think he could end up making the team. Don't be surprised if Moore and White both make the roster when it's all said and done.

I don't know what you were watching but Chris Moore is not a good receiver. He's a good special teamer and If he wasn't he'd be in the same spot as Breshad right now. He's not an NFL caliber WR. Idk why Breshad isn't working his tail off to be an asset on special teams. Easiest way to make a roster.

 

[cdp]

i just dont see how white and moore are both going to be considered better players than the other back end of the roster players they'd be competing against

they basically will be competing for the same role too - special teams gunner, return man, 5th/6th wr

i think we'd have to see a training camp injury or have one of the 2 new draft picks absolutely stink this whole offseason (or do something awful) to see a roster spot open up - there's no way we keep 7 wrs with the talent we have at other positions surely?

and i dont put that much stock in the hearsay about tim white... maybe he was something but he also might just have been a shining light in an awful receiving corps - remember he was fighting for the 6th wr spot on a corps that we couldnt wait to completely get rid of and retool - i think he has to outright win the returner job on his own merits and beat out chris moore to get on the roster

there's a serious part of me that thinks neither moore or white will make the roster depending on the special teams value we find elsewhere...

I thought I'd be the only one on #teamcutmoore. White is elusive and caught a lot of passes in TC last year. I remember Ssr talking about our wr corps. His guy was White and Moore might be a guy if he figures things out.
Id rather keep an extra RB instead of a Wr it creates much more mismatches.

 

[rossihunter2]

I thought I'd be the only one on #teamcutmoore. White is elusive and caught a lot of passes in TC last year. I remember Ssr talking about our wr corps. His guy was White and Moore might be a guy if he figures things out.
Id rather keep an extra RB instead of a Wr it creates much more mismatches.

we'll see but im not sure we're necessarily keeping more than 5 wideouts and i definitely dont see us keeping 6 - this organisation has made a commitment to revamp the receiving corps so there's no guaranteed spots for former underperforming draft picks - if he wins the spot on special teams then fair play but he's also got to beat out players at other positions too - unless he's clearly the 4th/5th wr in the offseason (in which case we likely have scott or lasley ride the inactives list) then he's got to 100% beat out special team specialists elsewhere on the roster like levine, mclellan, mayle etc...

 

[RaineV1]

i just dont see how white and moore are both going to be considered better players than the other back end of the roster players they'd be competing against

they basically will be competing for the same role too - special teams gunner, return man, 5th/6th wr

i think we'd have to see a training camp injury or have one of the 2 new draft picks absolutely stink this whole offseason (or do something awful) to see a roster spot open up - there's no way we keep 7 wrs with the talent we have at other positions surely?

and i dont put that much stock in the hearsay about tim white... maybe he was something but he also might just have been a shining light in an awful receiving corps - remember he was fighting for the 6th wr spot on a corps that we couldnt wait to completely get rid of and retool - i think he has to outright win the returner job on his own merits and beat out chris moore to get on the roster

there's a serious part of me that thinks neither moore or white will make the roster depending on the special teams value we find elsewhere...

Grant could be the one to take that spot.