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Will Roman and Mornhinweg Get Along?

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I actually want to see what Roman can do at some point. Flacco's been off, sure but I think Roman would be good for him. Flacco excelled in Kubiak WCO offense by doing a lot of bootlegs and going downfield. Roman did that a lot with San Francisco and Buffalo. Sure, Flacco's been bad, and is the main problem, but Marty hasn't been good either. There are playcalls that are MADDENING at some points(we didn't run the ball on 3rd and 2 against the steelers when Alex Collins had been successful). Roman's scheme is clearly working(imagine what would happen if we replaced Hurst with a good LG like Norwell.. Jesus we'd be average 5 YPC) and I've noticed a few more bootleg playcalls.

Flacco is the main problem, but I do want to see what Roman can do. Mind you, I was not a fan of the hire. But it is curious to me....
 

The Raven

Veteran
Greg Roman is an offensive genius and Marty M is not a genius anymore. There was a time where Marty M was brilliant but I feel like he hasn't adapted to the new breed of NFL front sevens. LBs are too good in coverage for him.

I just don't know what else accounts for him going from very efficient offenses to this. Is this all Joe?
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Greg Roman is an offensive genius and Marty M is not a genius anymore. There was a time where Marty M was brilliant but I feel like he hasn't adapted to the new breed of NFL front sevens. LBs are too good in coverage for him.

I just don't know what else accounts for him going from very efficient offenses to this. Is this all Joe?
Joe has gone through five coordinators (likely to be six soon) and only found great success with Gary Kubiak. At some point, we have to start questioning the leader of the offense, not the play callers.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Greg Roman is an offensive genius and Marty M is not a genius anymore. There was a time where Marty M was brilliant but I feel like he hasn't adapted to the new breed of NFL front sevens. LBs are too good in coverage for him.

I just don't know what else accounts for him going from very efficient offenses to this. Is this all Joe?

I doubt it. Joe is certainly part of the problem(And the majority of it at the moment(can't say the same for last season. He was bad, but wasn't this bad. I think a big part of it is he still feels discomfort from the back injury and that's a logical explanation so I wouldn't be surprised. parententhicals for the win)and not really a scheme fit but that's a discussion for another day). But there have been times where Marty has made a playcall that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Sure, Flacco could've audibled out of it, but a bad playcall is a bad call. His situational football is questionable at times as well. I agree that he hasn't really adapted well to the modern NFL. And the fact that we don't go deep as often as we did with Kubiak also doesn't help imo(I'm not talking shots at the end zone either. Just 20-30 yard passes in general. Sure, Flacco's accuracy has declined in that facet of his game, but it force defenses to keep themselves honest).

That's why I think Kubiak was such a success. And Kubiak's strategy is timeless. It's what makes it genius. Use the run to set up the pass and attack each accordingly. The Steelers playoff game with Kubiak was a masterclass on how to attack a defense's weaknesses. Sure, he was a bit conservative, but his offenses won 2 Super Bowls during the Elway era for a reason: he's an offensive genius. Not to mention he could also recognize Flacco's limitations and didn't really put him in too many horrible situations He knew how to attack levels on the defense and exploit mismatches. He went deep just as often as we attacked the shorter and intermediate stuff which lead to success. Sure, Flacco was also playing better, but that's what happened.

I don't think I'd call Roman a genius, but he's a good offensive mind, and I think he'd actually be a good fit with Joe. Like Kubiak, he has a strong emphasis on the running game and his passing plays are generally smart. Kaepernick was the bigger problem in San Francisco, and he was the scapegoat in Buffalo. I think having him come in would be ideal. He know how to mask QBs weaknesses given his time with Kaepernick and also knows how to play up to their strengths.

I do think Flacco is a problem, but Roman would go a long way. Plus, he's never really worked with a guy like Joe before so it'd be interesting to see what would happen
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
I doubt it. Joe is certainly part of the problem(And the majority of it at the moment(can't say the same for last season. He was bad, but wasn't this bad. I think a big part of it is he still feels discomfort from the back injury and that's a logical explanation so I wouldn't be surprised. parententhicals for the win)and not really a scheme fit but that's a discussion for another day). But there have been times where Marty has made a playcall that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Sure, Flacco could've audibled out of it, but a bad playcall is a bad call. His situational football is questionable at times as well. I agree that he hasn't really adapted well to the modern NFL. And the fact that we don't go deep as often as we did with Kubiak also doesn't help imo(I'm not talking shots at the end zone either. Just 20-30 yard passes in general. Sure, Flacco's accuracy has declined in that facet of his game, but it force defenses to keep themselves honest).

That's why I think Kubiak was such a success. And Kubiak's strategy is timeless. It's what makes it genius. Use the run to set up the pass and attack each accordingly. The Steelers playoff game with Kubiak was a masterclass on how to attack a defense's weaknesses. Sure, he was a bit conservative, but his offenses won 2 Super Bowls during the Elway era for a reason: he's an offensive genius. Not to mention he could also recognize Flacco's limitations and didn't really put him in too many horrible situations He knew how to attack levels on the defense and exploit mismatches. He went deep just as often as we attacked the shorter and intermediate stuff which lead to success. Sure, Flacco was also playing better, but that's what happened.

I don't think I'd call Roman a genius, but he's a good offensive mind, and I think he'd actually be a good fit with Joe. Like Kubiak, he has a strong emphasis on the running game and his passing plays are generally smart. Kaepernick was the bigger problem in San Francisco, and he was the scapegoat in Buffalo. I think having him come in would be ideal. He know how to mask QBs weaknesses given his time with Kaepernick and also knows how to play up to their strengths.

I do think Flacco is a problem, but Roman would go a long way. Plus, he's never really worked with a guy like Joe before so it'd be interesting to see what would happen

Kubiak was perfect for Flacco, it was simple really. Play to the offenses strength and use that to find weaknesses in the defenses. Really....really simple. smh
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Joe has gone through five coordinators (likely to be six soon) and only found great success with Gary Kubiak. At some point, we have to start questioning the leader of the offense, not the play callers.
To be fair. Cam Cameron is still unemployed for a reason, couldn't even hack it in college. So is Trestman. We didn't fire Caldwell(fwiw. I think he got kind of a bad wrap. The biggest problem that season was the oline by far).

Sure, Joe looks like a big problem at the moment but Cam cameron needed to go. I was willing to give Caldwell another year, though am glad we got Kubiak eventually, and Trestman needed to go as well... I can't blame all of their firings at Joe. They were bad. Marty doesn't look good either. In spite of Joe's recent crappy play, Marty still looks like an issue.

Flacco's been bad this year. But Marty is still a problem. Hell, Maclin knows it. Others know it. Most weren't a fan of keeping him around for a reason. His situational football has been questionable.
Kubiak was perfect for Flacco, it was simple really. Play to the offenses strength and use that to find weaknesses in the defenses. Really....really simple. smh
Too simple. And yes I'm captain obvious. But that's what a good OC does. I doubt someone of his caliber is on the market again, but I do think a good offensive mind would benefit us.
 

K-Dog

MVP
Joe has gone through five coordinators (likely to be six soon) and only found great success with Gary Kubiak. At some point, we have to start questioning the leader of the offense, not the play callers.
had a record setting play off run and a SB win with a OC not named Kubiak. so that word "only" there, doesn't really fit.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
To be fair. Cam Cameron is still unemployed for a reason, couldn't even hack it in college. So is Trestman. We didn't fire Caldwell(fwiw. I think he got kind of a bad wrap. The biggest problem that season was the oline by far).

Sure, Joe looks like a big problem at the moment but Cam cameron needed to go. I was willing to give Caldwell another year, though am glad we got Kubiak eventually, and Trestman needed to go as well... I can't blame all of their firings at Joe. They were bad. Marty doesn't look good either. In spite of Joe's recent crappy play, Marty still looks like an issue.

Flacco's been bad this year. But Marty is still a problem. Hell, Maclin knows it. Others know it. Most weren't a fan of keeping him around for a reason. His situational football has been questionable.

Too simple. And yes I'm captain obvious. But that's what a good OC does. I doubt someone of his caliber is on the market again, but I do think a good offensive mind would benefit us.
I don't argue that they were bad for the most part when they were here, but the one constant still remains Flacco. Someone else proposed this long ago, but what if these coordinators can't open up the offense like they want to and can't call plays the way they want because of Flacco? What if he really handicaps the offensive play calling to the point that even great minds look poor?

It isn't a good look when you've only found great success under 1 of 5 coordinators.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
had a record setting play off run and a SB win with a OC not named Kubiak. so that word "only" there, doesn't really fit.
That playoff run was absolutely amazing and I don't even contribute that to the play calling because Joe individually was playing out of his mind. But during the regular season of 2012 and 2013, he was pretty meh under Caldwell.
 

RayRayRaven

Veteran
Yeah I'm really curious about Waller, I think this year he has a clear shot to be a RZ weapon for us. We did it a bit with him last year and I expect that to continue.
This year? hes suspended for the yr. he can't lay off the weed.
 

K-Dog

MVP
That playoff run was absolutely amazing and I don't even contribute that to the play calling because Joe individually was playing out of his mind. But during the regular season of 2012 and 2013, he was pretty meh under Caldwell.
wow.

wow.

Alright man. Good talkin'
I am going back to just using emoticons.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
wow.

wow.

Alright man. Good talkin'
I am going back to just using emoticons.
Acknowledges that the Super Bowl run was amazing and you get upset. Alright...

Unless you want to argue that Flacco played well during the regular season of 2012 and 2013?
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I don't argue that they were bad for the most part when they were here, but the one constant still remains Flacco. Someone else proposed this long ago, but what if these coordinators can't open up the offense like they want to and can't call plays the way they want because of Flacco? What if he really handicaps the offensive play calling to the point that even great minds look poor?

It isn't a good look when you've only found great success under 1 of 5 coordinators.
That argument would have a lot more merit if most of them were still employed as OCs and excelling. Context matters in that situation. Caldwell (again bad wrap imo) and Kubiak both got hired to be coaches elsewhere. Marty will likely be unemployed as a coordinator after this stint, and Trestman and Cam Cameron still don't look good. To the common fan I could see how this looks horrible(because without context it does), but anyone who's been paying attention knows that Flacco won a super bowl with one of them, and the two that were fired ultimately deserved to be fired. Cam Cameron was way too conservative and it carried over into college(which was a surprise to me, the dude has helped develop two Super bowl winning Quarterbacks, and the most neglected QB in recent memory in Phillip Rivers), while Trestman is a pass happy guy who the game has clearly passed by and clearly belongs in the CFL. I do think had we kept Caldwell in 2014, we would have been successful because the oline was retooled that offseason and while he wouldn't have been as good as Kubiak he would've been servicable far moreso than Trestman, Cam, or even Marty. All three in which have obvious flaws.


With regards to Flacco I've accepted what he is a long time ago: he's a mediocre regular season QB who won't be the reason you win games, but used to not throw them for you either(fwiw, I do think at some point he reverts back to this. I think he's become well aware as of recently that his secure spot is dwindling and that if he keeps playing like jack shit we're gonna be in position to draft his replacement). But for whatever reason, when the playoffs roll around, he turns into very good quarterback who can win you big games. Is it frustrating as all fuck? Yes. I would obviously rather have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. But in his prime was he good enough to win a super bowl? Yeah... He did it. And he was the main reason why. And sure, we had a good team, but football is the ultimate team sport. The oline was good, the defense played well, he was on fire, and Anquan Boldin and Jacoby Jones had excellent postseasons. It was a team effort, he was just the catalyst. I do think we are missing a few pieces on offense and it's hurting everyone, which is a big reason I'm proprietor for next season. Even if we have to take Flacco's replacement at some point, there's enough talent in FA and the draft to get Flacco/the new guy a good supporting cast.

Even with the mediocre regular season play. Flacco's career overall has been a massive success. Hall of fame worthy? Fuck no. Ring of Honor Worthy? Yeah, for that super bowl run he's earned it. In his prime half of the league would have killed to have a guy like that. He's not elite(never was), but he was good enough to win you a super bowl. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Truth be told, I'd take the regular season "meh" of 2010, 2011, and 2012 again. All the good and bad that come with it. Just get him a good offensive line, another good RB and recieving option, and things just might work out. That Flacco was good enough to win a super bowl, which at the end of the day is all I care about.

As of right now, I'm worried about Joe. I do think the back injury plays a role in the regression(he looks uncomfortable as all hell whenever he's moving. He looked more comfortable coming off of the bum knee last year.. Which is saying something). But I think he understands that if he keeps this shit up his ass will be on the line. And once his back heals up I'm hoping something good comes out of it(and I'm not saying this about you Bmore, just a heads up). I'm just not one of those fans(and they exist. It's obvious. Those are the reasons why I come off as such a Flacco supporter. Those people piss me off) who wants to see him fail. I want us to go fix that oline and get us a good RB because I think it will go a long way in helping the team as a whole, which is ultimately what we need. The recieving corps is fine, and the Oline is in the middle of the road, and the run game isn't schemed bad.

At this moment, Flacco is the problem. He's weighing us down, but there is a chance he bounces back.That said, we could use some upgrades across the board. This run scheme works well with James Hurst in the lineup. Imagine what happens if we can upgrade him. Imagine what happens if we can get a stud RT in the draft? What happens when we put a bell cow like Wradley, or Chubb, or something of that kind back there. Get a big strong WR that Flacco loves. That's the offseason I think we're going to have.

Make no mistake. Flacco's the main issue. But I think retooling the offense and maybe finding a new OC would go a long way in helping him sort out the kinks. That won't solve everything, but it'll make it easier for him to hopefully fix his issues.


TLDR: I'm just hoping he can bounce back. Which I think he will do eventually. If not here, then somewhere else. I'm still rooting for him, but he needs to get his shit together.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
That argument would have a lot more merit if most of them were still employed as OCs and excelling. Context matters in that situation. Caldwell (again bad wrap imo) and Kubiak both got hired to be coaches elsewhere. Marty will likely be unemployed as a coordinator after this stint, and Trestman and Cam Cameron still don't look good. To the common fan I could see how this looks horrible(because without context it does), but anyone who's been paying attention knows that Flacco won a super bowl with one of them, and the two that were fired ultimately deserved to be fired. Cam Cameron was way too conservative and it carried over into college(which was a surprise to me, the dude has helped develop two Super bowl winning Quarterbacks, and the most neglected QB in recent memory in Phillip Rivers), while Trestman is a pass happy guy who the game has clearly passed by and clearly belongs in the CFL. I do think had we kept Caldwell in 2014, we would have been successful because the oline was retooled that offseason and while he wouldn't have been as good as Kubiak he would've been servicable far moreso than Trestman, Cam, or even Marty. All three in which have obvious flaws.


With regards to Flacco I've accepted what he is a long time ago: he's a mediocre regular season QB who won't be the reason you win games, but used to not throw them for you either(fwiw, I do think at some point he reverts back to this. I think he's become well aware as of recently that his secure spot is dwindling and that if he keeps playing like jack shit we're gonna be in position to draft his replacement). But for whatever reason, when the playoffs roll around, he turns into very good quarterback who can win you big games. Is it frustrating as all fuck? Yes. I would obviously rather have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. But in his prime was he good enough to win a super bowl? Yeah... He did it. And he was the main reason why. And sure, we had a good team, but football is the ultimate team sport. The oline was good, the defense played well, he was on fire, and Anquan Boldin and Jacoby Jones had excellent postseasons. It was a team effort, he was just the catalyst. I do think we are missing a few pieces on offense and it's hurting everyone, which is a big reason I'm proprietor for next season. Even if we have to take Flacco's replacement at some point, there's enough talent in FA and the draft to get Flacco/the new guy a good supporting cast.

Even with the mediocre regular season play. Flacco's career overall has been a massive success. Hall of fame worthy? Fuck no. Ring of Honor Worthy? Yeah, for that super bowl run he's earned it. In his prime half of the league would have killed to have a guy like that. He's not elite(never was), but he was good enough to win you a super bowl. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Truth be told, I'd take the regular season "meh" of 2010, 2011, and 2012 again. All the good and bad that come with it. Just get him a good offensive line, another good RB and recieving option, and things just might work out. That Flacco was good enough to win a super bowl, which at the end of the day is all I care about.

As of right now, I'm worried about Joe. I do think the back injury plays a role in the regression(he looks uncomfortable as all hell whenever he's moving. He looked more comfortable coming off of the bum knee last year.. Which is saying something). But I think he understands that if he keeps this shit up his ass will be on the line. And once his back heals up I'm hoping something good comes out of it(and I'm not saying this about you Bmore, just a heads up). I'm just not one of those fans(and they exist. It's obvious. Those are the reasons why I come off as such a Flacco supporter. Those people piss me off) who wants to see him fail. I want us to go fix that oline and get us a good RB because I think it will go a long way in helping the team as a whole, which is ultimately what we need. The recieving corps is fine, and the Oline is in the middle of the road, and the run game isn't schemed bad.

At this moment, Flacco is the problem. He's weighing us down, but there is a chance he bounces back.That said, we could use some upgrades across the board. This run scheme works well with James Hurst in the lineup. Imagine what happens if we can upgrade him. Imagine what happens if we can get a stud RT in the draft? What happens when we put a bell cow like Wradley, or Chubb, or something of that kind back there. Get a big strong WR that Flacco loves. That's the offseason I think we're going to have.

Make no mistake. Flacco's the main issue. But I think retooling the offense and maybe finding a new OC would go a long way in helping him sort out the kinks. That won't solve everything, but it'll make it easier for him to hopefully fix his issues.


TLDR: I'm just hoping he can bounce back. Which I think he will do eventually. If not here, then somewhere else. I'm still rooting for him, but he needs to get his shit together.
You gotta stop writing novels. I stopped reading like a third of the way through.

But in the case of someone like Marty- he had massive success in Phili and a lot of people were cautiously optimistic. Now he's the next on the chopping block.

Let me phrase it this way- if the Ravens had Rodgers, Luck, Brees, or any high caliber quarterback, does this Marty led offense look as bad? Does Cameron look as bad? Does Kubiak look even better?
 

SepticeyePoe

Hall of Famer
You gotta stop writing novels. I stopped reading like a third of the way through.

But in the case of someone like Marty- he had massive success in Phili and a lot of people were cautiously optimistic. Now he's the next on the chopping block.

Let me phrase it this way- if the Ravens had Rodgers, Luck, Brees, or any high caliber quarterback, does this Marty led offense look as bad? Does Cameron look as bad? Does Kubiak look even better?
Says the dude who wrote an equally long novel. :D

In response to your question, the offense probably isn't as bad with a better, more consistent QB.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Says the dude who wrote an equally long novel. :D

In response to your question, the offense probably isn't as bad with a better, more consistent QB.
Hey, I was asked to do articles. This guy has the ability, too.

I'd imagine if you put in Rodgers, we're a top 15 offense.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
You gotta stop writing novels. I stopped reading like a third of the way through.

But in the case of someone like Marty- he had massive success in Phili and a lot of people were cautiously optimistic. Now he's the next on the chopping block.

Let me phrase it this way- if the Ravens had Rodgers, Luck, Brees, or any high caliber quarterback, does this Marty led offense look as bad? Does Cameron look as bad? Does Kubiak look even better?
I think that @The Raven is right in the sense that the game has passed Marty by. The emergence of the faster and more skilled LBs in coverage has low key changed the game. Look at Myles Jack and Tyus Bowser. Highly coveted for their abilities in those facets. Telvin Smith is going to earn himself a nice payday. The game passing people by is more commonplace than you'd think(see Norv Turner, who himself was once a brilliant offensive mind. Hell Trestman had a few great years as an OC too. But fell off the map as the game changed). And no, I'm not arguing that flacco is a top tier guy. He needs a team, but in his prime that's better than a lot of QBs could ever say. So obviously, the offense would look better with those guys at the helm, they're just better. But that doesn't mean Flacco killed these OC's careers like others have suggested. The playcalling itself would still be flawed. The quarterback doesn't change that.

Oh and if you want me to rank the OCs Flacco has had in his career. It'd probably go.

Kubiak(duh)
Caldwell(mainly due to the super bowl run.. Again, I think he got a bad wrap)
Cameron(say what you want about him. But he did help Flacco acclimate himself to the NFL. But he needed to go and it was obvious. And Cam did have his moments)
Marty
Trestman(his CFL playcalling killed us at points last season moreso than Flacco ever could have. Firing him was the right move. Abandoning the run for seemingly games at a time? Not a good plan).

I See your point though so I'm not saying you're wrong.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Says the dude who wrote an equally long novel. :D

In response to your question, the offense probably isn't as bad with a better, more consistent QB.
Hey, we're writers for the site for a reason and collaborate on a long-ass novel weekly. Sue us. We'll win
 
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