Will Roman and Mornhinweg Get Along?

[RaineV1]

I completely agree with Lost on this one. Flacco has been part of the problem, no doubt, but Roman would be a genuine improvement over Marty. The only place I see Marty being successful from now on would be in the college ranks.

 

[ZonaRaven]

#firemarty

Being serious here, after 4 games, there's virtually zero chance we retain him for next season, so do away with him now and live to see what Roman can offer.

 

[Sooky]

I don't argue that they were bad for the most part when they were here, but the one constant still remains Flacco. Someone else proposed this long ago, but what if these coordinators can't open up the offense like they want to and can't call plays the way they want because of Flacco? What if he really handicaps the offensive play calling to the point that even great minds look poor?

It isn't a good look when you've only found great success under 1 of 5 coordinators.

I would argue 2 of 5 offensive coordinators. I just feel like the offense has no direction on where it wants to go. They go and get deep threats in Wallace and Maclin and you have a strong armed quarterback but then you don't have any plays in your playbook that really go deep. And if you did the offensive line is terrible. The Ravens need system players and need to incorporate a system and get players that fit that system. I know they like getting those discount players in the offseason, but a lot of the times they don't match what the team wants to do to move the ball.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I think that @The Raven is right in the sense that the game has passed Marty by. The emergence of the faster and more skilled LBs in coverage has low key changed the game. Look at Myles Jack and Tyus Bowser. Highly coveted for their abilities in those facets. Telvin Smith is going to earn himself a nice payday. The game passing people by is more commonplace than you'd think(see Norv Turner, who himself was once a brilliant offensive mind. Hell Trestman had a few great years as an OC too. But fell off the map as the game changed). And no, I'm not arguing that flacco is a top tier guy. He needs a team, but in his prime that's better than a lot of QBs could ever say. So obviously, the offense would look better with those guys at the helm, they're just better. But that doesn't mean Flacco killed these OC's careers like others have suggested. The playcalling itself would still be flawed. The quarterback doesn't change that.

Oh and if you want me to rank the OCs Flacco has had in his career. It'd probably go.

Kubiak(duh)
Caldwell(mainly due to the super bowl run.. Again, I think he got a bad wrap)
Cameron(say what you want about him. But he did help Flacco acclimate himself to the NFL. But he needed to go and it was obvious. And Cam did have his moments)
Marty
Trestman(his CFL playcalling killed us at points last season moreso than Flacco ever could have. Firing him was the right move. Abandoning the run for seemingly games at a time? Not a good plan).

I See your point though so I'm not saying you're wrong.

But what if Sean Payton came in and didn't produce well? Would we say the game has passed him by and he's just no longer the same offensive mind that he was? Where do we draw the line?

For the record, I thought Cameron did some highly confusing things and Trestman had me lost, but with Marty, I just feel like Joe is really handicapping him at this point. We haven't seen good Joe for over two years now and Marty hasn't had good Joe. Really, the last one to have good Joe was Kubiak and much of that was Kubiak's own doing with his commitment to fixing Joe's footwork.

But I'd very much expect the quarterback to change the play calling. If I have Sam Bradford, I'll probably call a different offense than if I had Newton and I'm calling a different offense all together with Aaron Rodgers. Really, every single playbook largely has the same plays with a few wrinkles thrown in and different terminology, so it's about tailoring it to your own personnel.

If I were to rank the OC's

Kubiak is obviously at the top. Really no explanation with how well he got Joe going and fixed his mechanics.

Cameron is going to be my number two. Call me crazy, but Cameron I credit for largely helping Joe get rolling and really going in the NFL. He definitely knew how to get the most out of Rice. And while Cameron's total lack of desire to use the middle of the field was frustrating, the man could design some plays. Remember 4th and 29? I think it was actually a designed dump off, but here's the beauty of it. Jacoby Jones, Dennis Pitta, Torrey Smith, and Anquan Boldin all ran the SAME speed to clear out the defenders. We have four guys who all run vastly different 40's streaking down the field at the exact same pace. Genius design to clear out room for Rice underneath. The offense was actually decently consistent under Cameron, always having a steady running attack and being just good enough in the passing game.

Marty is my three. I like what he and Roman have been able to accomplish with the running game even with the injury to Yanda. I also think he has bright moments of great play design, like the should be touchdown to Perriman. What impressed me the most this season was that Marty showed a damn large commitment to the run in the first few games. I also like how he generally designs his passing concepts to attack all three levels of the field. I can't put Joe's gun shy mentality on Marty.

Caldwell is my number four. The 2013 season was an absolute mess and I have to put much of that on Caldwell. I know the offensive line that year was garbage, but there was a total lack of bootlegs and there was little movement from Joe in the pocket. I am extremely appreciate for how he tuned Cameron's offense because the usage of the middle of the field with Pitta and Boldin at the end of the season in 2012 and during the SB run was stellar. The amount of crossing routes he employed between those two that Cameron didn't was night and day. Still, I can't get over how mediocre 2013 was when he was able to largely install his own concepts.

Trestman is well, well, well below the others for me. Nothing he did really made sense to me.

I think you could probably make 2-4 interchangeable, but that's how it comes out for me.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I would argue 2 of 5 offensive coordinators. I just feel like the offense has no direction on where it wants to go. They go and get deep threats in Wallace and Maclin and you have a strong armed quarterback but then you don't have any plays in your playbook that really go deep. And if you did the offensive line is terrible. The Ravens need system players and need to incorporate a system and get players that fit that system. I know they like getting those discount players in the offseason, but a lot of the times they don't match what the team wants to do to move the ball.

I definitely think Marty does a pretty good job of attacking all three levels of the field, but for whatever reason, Joe has been extremely conservative to start the season.

 

[ravenslord]

I definitely think Marty does a pretty good job of attacking all three levels of the field, but for whatever reason, Joe has been extremely conservative to start the season.

He's afraid of getting hit because the offensive line is one of the worst in the NFL.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

He's afraid of getting hit because the offensive line is one of the worst in the NFL.

It's a major issue because many of the elite/top quarterbacks will stand in and take a hit. Joe will hurry his decisions to 100% avoid getting touched.

 

[ravenslord]

It's a major issue because many of the elite/top quarterbacks will stand in and take a hit. Joe will hurry his decisions to 100% avoid getting touched.

There may be some truth to this but I think Joe is trying to protect a severe back problem. We will find out lat the end of the season how bad his back really is.

A back problem is the worst for a NFL QB.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

There may be some truth to this but I think Joe is trying to protect a severe back problem. We will find out lat the end of the season how bad his back really is.

A back problem is the worst for a NFL QB.

If it's really that severe, he doesn't need to be playing and shouldn't be playing. It's that simple for me.

 

[RavensMania]

If it's really that severe, he doesn't need to be playing and shouldn't be playing. It's that simple for me.

Let's hope we do find out and agree, he shouldn't be playing if that is the case.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Let's hope we do find out and agree, he shouldn't be playing if that is the case.

I would hate to think Flacco is putting all this criticism on himself just to play through injury.

 

[ravenslord]

I would hate to think Flacco is putting all this criticism on himself just to play through injury.

There’s no question he’s playing through an injury . He is as stiff as a board out there . The question is how severe .
The Ravens staff will not spill the beans because they don’t want opposing teams to know what’s going on .

 

[gtalk12]

I would hate to think Flacco is putting all this criticism on himself just to play through injury.

I really hope this is not the case, it's stupid to put yourself out there and risk the rest of your career.

We should call up that kid from pre-season and let him run the offense while Joe comes back

 

[29BmoreBird22]

There’s no question he’s playing through an injury . He is as stiff as a board out there . The question is how severe .
The Ravens staff will not spill the beans because they don’t want opposing teams to know what’s going on .

Well, I mean, everyone plays through injuries at this point; it's whether or not it's so severe that it's causing this much detriment to his game.

 

[TheCity5]

But what if Sean Payton came in and didn't produce well? Would we say the game has passed him by and he's just no longer the same offensive mind that he was? Where do we draw the line?

At some point, you're going to have to look at the QB and think that maybe he has some adjustments to make. Maybe he should hold the ball longer, like a receiver, a QB will get hit sometimes, and they will rush the throw because of the DE. You're going to get hit regardless, so you might as well disregard the defender, let the play develop and try to hit your receiver in stride. Everyone rushes a throw but some do it more than others and right now Joe is doing it more than others. I can't find any clips/gifs of the Perriman pass but from what it looks like after Skura(?) looked like he was losing the contain on his man, and Joe rushed the throw. It just didn't make sense to me how he missed the mark on a clean pocket. Regardless, he's got to fix a lot of the parts of his game and maybe we should look at that rather than point the finger at Marty.

My biggest criticism of Marty is his lack of creativity when it comes down to scheme in terms of opening receivers up and protection. The Maclin TD vs Bengals was an excellent example of what we need to see more of. The pick by Ben Watson was perfect and the CB took the bait freeing Maclin open with nothing but green grass in front of him. Also, when you can't protect a QB then what you have to do as a OC is scheme up protection. That's really what you need from him, after that your players just need to play better and step it up.

My biggest gripe though is the fact that our deep passing game has died. I mean I have legit only seen one pass that has traveled more than 30 yards. Even if it's not there you need to try to at least attempt a pass there, now I know people are going to say "Well, the OL doesn't allow enough time for that." but I can't buy that, in 2013 we had Torrey catching passes that traveled more than 30+ yards, even in 2011 we had a deep passing attack and that OL wasn't all that great either.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

At some point, you're going to have to look at the QB and think that maybe he has some adjustments to make. Maybe he should hold the ball longer, like a receiver, a QB will get hit sometimes, and they will rush the throw because of the DE. You're going to get hit regardless, so you might as well disregard the defender, let the play develop and try to hit your receiver in stride. Everyone rushes a throw but some do it more than others and right now Joe is doing it more than others. I can't find any clips/gifs of the Perriman pass but from what it looks like after Skura(?) looked like he was losing the contain on his man, and Joe rushed the throw. It just didn't make sense to me how he missed the mark on a clean pocket. Regardless, he's got to fix a lot of the parts of his game and maybe we should look at that rather than point the finger at Marty.

My biggest criticism of Marty is his lack of creativity when it comes down to scheme in terms of opening receivers up and protection. The Maclin TD vs Bengals was an excellent example of what we need to see more of. The pick by Ben Watson was perfect and the CB took the bait freeing Maclin open with nothing but green grass in front of him. Also, when you can't protect a QB then what you have to do as a OC is scheme up protection. That's really what you need from him, after that your players just need to play better and step it up.

My biggest gripe though is the fact that our deep passing game has died. I mean I have legit only seen one pass that has traveled more than 30 yards. Even if it's not there you need to try to at least attempt a pass there, now I know people are going to say "Well, the OL doesn't allow enough time for that." but I can't buy that, in 2013 we had Torrey catching passes that traveled more than 30+ yards, even in 2011 we had a deep passing attack and that OL wasn't all that great either.

The Perriman should be touchdown was amazingly executed and designed by Marty. Truth did a pretty comprehensive breakdown, but holy crap, it was gorgeous.

I would say you are correct about needing to scheme up protection. I haven't really honed in on this, but maybe you need to go two tight end and just chip the edge rushers and keep a back in the backfield. As it stands now, Watson is basically a third receiver and there's no harm in having Boyle out there. He's shown good awareness against zone coverage. I don't have an answer, but figuring out how to give Skura and Howard help would be priority number one for me.

I also think part of the issue on the deep passing game is Joe being too conservative. He's barely attempts throws even 10 yards down the field. He just seems gun shy and I'm not sure why.

 

[TheCity5]

The Perriman should be touchdown was amazingly executed and designed by Marty. Truth did a pretty comprehensive breakdown, but holy crap, it was gorgeous.

I would say you are correct about needing to scheme up protection. I haven't really honed in on this, but maybe you need to go two tight end and just chip the edge rushers and keep a back in the backfield. As it stands now, Watson is basically a third receiver and there's no harm in having Boyle out there. He's shown good awareness against zone coverage. I don't have an answer, but figuring out how to give Skura and Howard help would be priority number one for me.

I also think part of the issue on the deep passing game is Joe being too conservative. He's barely attempts throws even 10 yards down the field. He just seems gun shy and I'm not sure why.

On the protection part, you got two great blockers in Boyle and Watson. I did see both of them help on a pass protect but one problem I did see though is that E/or Skura, don't remember who, had issues with mis-communication and it resulted in pressure. That's purely on player execution. I imagine that we will see more help for Skura and Howard but they both need to pick up their blocks. Joe and the receivers need to connect more and the big plays need to happen, you just need to figure something out.

On the Perriman should-be TD I didn't get a full look at it but I'll definitely take your word for it as he was too wide open for it not to be that way. I think Marty has come in with some good play-calling but I would like him to be a bit more creative in that sense and add protection too if your QB is having issues with pressure. That's what being a play-caller/OC is about but I do put more of the blame on the lack of player execution and Joe. I also think Joe is playing too conservative, his play style has just changed dramatically and sadly I think the injuries have played a role into that.

 

[Oldfaithful]

If it's really that severe, he doesn't need to be playing and shouldn't be playing. It's that simple for me.

I agree with this notion and I believe that his injury has played a massive role in his crapinesss this season. Even last year coming off of the bum knee he didn't look this stiff and conservative. He's been on the decline anyway, but this has made it so much worse. I do think he reverts back to what he was last year sooner rather than later, and hopefully goes back to what he was before that (a meh regular season QB and whatnot). I do think he's trying to toughen it out, but it might screw him over later. I'd rather bench him till the back is fully healed before anything, even if it means we lose a lot of games.

 

[Brian Jessen]

The Ravens have run the ball 114 times in the first four games: 40 times in Game 1, 21 times in Game 2, 15 times in Game 3, 11 times in game 4.

abandoning the running game again this year ?

Looks like they DONT work together.

 

[RavensMania]

The Ravens have run the ball 114 times in the first four games: 40 times in Game 1, 21 times in Game 2, 15 times in Game 3, 11 times in game 4.

abandoning the running game again this year ?

Looks like they DONT work together.

Your numbers per game don't mesh up. We definitely have rushed 114 times on the season, but our per game is the following. The following numbers don't add up but these rushes don't reflect Joe Flacco.

They definitely could have run more last week keeping Flacco from passing the ball 50 times, but raging the ball 25 times while being blown out is not giving up on the run.

Game 1: 42
Game 2: 21
Game 3: 25
Game 4: 15