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Lamar Jackson

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
I was talking with a friend and he thinks that Lamar can't read a defense. What do you guys think?

I disagree with him, personally, but I'm not as good as you guys are at explaining why. And I'm not going back through 100 pages to look for the answer.
I mean he looks like he goes through his progressions fairly well. He has missed some open guys over the past couple of weeks and he does have tendencies to not see LBs roaming underneath. He isn’t bad at reading defenses, he might not be great at it but anyone who says he can’t do it probably only listens to espn. The bigger issue is his periodical inaccuracy right now I believe.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I was talking with a friend and he thinks that Lamar can't read a defense. What do you guys think?

I disagree with him, personally, but I'm not as good as you guys are at explaining why. And I'm not going back through 100 pages to look for the answer.
I don’t think he’s bad at reading the defense, but i think the way he “reads” the defense is more a reactionary and instinctive thing, when he lines up pre snap, I’m not sure he entirely knows what he’s looking at, but I think he has an idea, luckily the coverage he reads will be simple due to the overcommitment to the run, and he can have a slight predetermination of what he’s doing based on DB alignment, but once the ball is snapped I think he takes what he sees pre snap and then just goes through his progressions and reacts to the defense, he’s more seeing guys get open than anticipating the defense. My theory on his “reading” of the defense just being a pre snap alignment check could be part of why he doesn’t see LBs underneath in his progressions.

He reacts to the defense more than reading and anticipating it, which is fine because his instincts are superb and overall he seems to be mentally quick enough to play like that, and I do have faith that the underneath coverage issue is very fixable, seems to be one of his tougher issues because he did this inncollege as well, it can be coached though and eventually he’s gonna throw a game breaking pick to a LB and the coaches are gonna hammer down on the issue and lamar will respond well as he usually does.

Saying he can’t read defenses is weak and shows your friend likely doesn’t know what he’s talking about, it’s low hanging fruit for non believers in any qb and most people don’t know what they mean when they say that. lamars looked off safeties quite a few times this year, that alone shows a level of reading the defense that a lot of QBs don’t have, he knows what the safety is trying to do and he takes advantage of that by freezing him with his eyes, also being able to stay poised in the pocket as he goes through 2-3 reads before scrambling shows he understands the rush they’re bringing him, you don’t hold tight in the pocket like he does if you aren’t well aware of the rush coming.

He reads defenses at a basic level, which is fine, at least there is some real understanding there and he has the knowhow to capitalize.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I don’t think he’s bad at reading the defense, but i think the way he “reads” the defense is more a reactionary and instinctive thing, when he lines up pre snap, I’m not sure he entirely knows what he’s looking at, but I think he has an idea, luckily the coverage he reads will be simple due to the overcommitment to the run, and he can have a slight predetermination of what he’s doing based on DB alignment, but once the ball is snapped I think he takes what he sees pre snap and then just goes through his progressions and reacts to the defense, he’s more seeing guys get open than anticipating the defense. My theory on his “reading” of the defense just being a pre snap alignment check could be part of why he doesn’t see LBs underneath in his progressions.

yet another reason for us to use way more pre-snap motion - it makes it way easier to work out the defence when you have pre-snap motion - it basically tells you everything unless the safeties are cheating like weddle does all the time
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
yet another reason for us to use way more pre-snap motion - it makes it way easier to work out the defence when you have pre-snap motion - it basically tells you everything unless the safeties are cheating like weddle does all the time
I love that it’s a dead giveaway on who’s playing man/zone and there’s no guessing to be done there when you motion
 

SepticeyePoe

Hall of Famer
If your friend doesn’t understand the difference between getting the ball to receivers and reading a defense he doesn’t know much about football.
I wouldn't go that far, but he's also not a Ravens fan, so I don't know how much of Lamar he has seen. He roots for the DC team.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
You would need to talk with him to convert him, lol. He's a pretty loyal fan.
I was a die hard and had a skins license plate and season tickets. All my friends were absolutely shocked. To me it wasn’t the record at all or else I would have changed years earlier. To me it was the owner and how he treated a business acquaintances son. I’m not going to go into detail with this. Snyder treated the fans like dirt and the season ticket holders even worse, because it’s all about the money.

My basement is all Ravens merchandise, but I still have a signed Sean Taylor jersey and a Darrell Green autograph on the wall, plus some Caps and Nats.

I’d be happy to talk to your friend.
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
I didn't say anything about the wonderlic. I said that he seems like he's pretty dumb. The wonderlic does nothing to refute that, btw.


these are the very comments that were made against him because of his manner of speech before the draft.

has nothing to do with his play. cut that shit out
 

Ravensnation5220

Ravens Ring of Honor
these are the very comments that were made against him because of his manner of speech before the draft.

has nothing to do with his play. cut that shit out
Since when has being uneducated made you a bad football player.....

Ive always been an advocate for having plsyers who do well in the classroom but ive never been against having 'dumb' players. Unless that is dumb off the feild decision
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
@Edgar
awesome work on the 2 lamar vs chiefs videos and the 2 minute drill - some really nice points of analysis (some that kinda confirmed what im seeing and some bits and pieces that were more surprising)

  • the mechanics are interesting - his mechanics have a higher level of variance than id like - when he throws with good mechanics he looks great but a good point you made in the cut ups is that his mechanics get real wonky when he rushes his throws and not necessarily due to pressure but on those screens and quick routes where he's almost too keen to pull the trigger and he almost over follows through with his arm and his body doesnt towards the target which leads to the ball hitting the turf - its frustrating because when he steps up he's mostly looking do so with a nice wide base and a good follow through and he's thrown some really nice passes but consistency is key - i wonder if partly its down to a little laziness on those shorter throws because they should be easier so he doesnt force himself to use those new mechanics that he's been installing since he got to baltimore - but the shorter passes outside the numbers on screens and stuff has been disappointing
  • the amount of short stuff that's open with the current system and scheme is incredible - it's both great and concerning at the same time that lamar isnt looking to the leaking out back or checkdown enough - he seems to want to find that play downfield but isnt always taking what the defence is offering him (especially on 1st and 2nd down)
  • a little late reading underneath (@JoeyFlex5 this could potentially be his own tacit acknowledgement that he knows he's susceptible to losing track of the linebackers underneath and doesnt want to create turnovers so he maybe doubts himself a little and that makes him hold the ball too long - but that's pure conjecture by me)
  • good reading of the field as he goes through progressions - still doesnt see the seam so well (at least consistently or quickly) - if Lamar starts reading those seams as open a little earlier mark andrews is going to look like a big play machine because he finds that space so well
ultimately im really impressed with him - there's a lot to work on but the passing game looks like there's some easy avenues to improve significantly in very meaningful but fairly simple ways

no matter whether we make the playoffs i think going back and doing some self-film-study of his own game in the starts he's got this year are going to stand him in good stead - i know they do tape reviews after every game but i think lamar will learn a lot from watching how defences attack him and the spaces that those coverages typically create with the scheme and system we run

the other thing is that now he has a nice mechanical basis to work with id like to see him focus on good reps of those mechanics and not allowing himself to get lazy or lose that new footwork and lower body work when he gets in difficult situations (or rushed/hurried situations)

i hope he learns something from rivers this weekend @ the chargers - lamar likes to use the sidearm pass to get the ball past rushers clogging the passing lanes and there's no one better in the league than rivers at that sort of skill
 

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
@Edgar
awesome work on the 2 lamar vs chiefs videos and the 2 minute drill - some really nice points of analysis (some that kinda confirmed what im seeing and some bits and pieces that were more surprising)

  • the mechanics are interesting - his mechanics have a higher level of variance than id like - when he throws with good mechanics he looks great but a good point you made in the cut ups is that his mechanics get real wonky when he rushes his throws and not necessarily due to pressure but on those screens and quick routes where he's almost too keen to pull the trigger and he almost over follows through with his arm and his body doesnt towards the target which leads to the ball hitting the turf - its frustrating because when he steps up he's mostly looking do so with a nice wide base and a good follow through and he's thrown some really nice passes but consistency is key - i wonder if partly its down to a little laziness on those shorter throws because they should be easier so he doesnt force himself to use those new mechanics that he's been installing since he got to baltimore - but the shorter passes outside the numbers on screens and stuff has been disappointing
  • the amount of short stuff that's open with the current system and scheme is incredible - it's both great and concerning at the same time that lamar isnt looking to the leaking out back or checkdown enough - he seems to want to find that play downfield but isnt always taking what the defence is offering him (especially on 1st and 2nd down)
  • a little late reading underneath (@JoeyFlex5 this could potentially be his own tacit acknowledgement that he knows he's susceptible to losing track of the linebackers underneath and doesnt want to create turnovers so he maybe doubts himself a little and that makes him hold the ball too long - but that's pure conjecture by me)
  • good reading of the field as he goes through progressions - still doesnt see the seam so well (at least consistently or quickly) - if Lamar starts reading those seams as open a little earlier mark andrews is going to look like a big play machine because he finds that space so well
ultimately im really impressed with him - there's a lot to work on but the passing game looks like there's some easy avenues to improve significantly in very meaningful but fairly simple ways

no matter whether we make the playoffs i think going back and doing some self-film-study of his own game in the starts he's got this year are going to stand him in good stead - i know they do tape reviews after every game but i think lamar will learn a lot from watching how defences attack him and the spaces that those coverages typically create with the scheme and system we run

the other thing is that now he has a nice mechanical basis to work with id like to see him focus on good reps of those mechanics and not allowing himself to get lazy or lose that new footwork and lower body work when he gets in difficult situations (or rushed/hurried situations)

i hope he learns something from rivers this weekend @ the chargers - lamar likes to use the sidearm pass to get the ball past rushers clogging the passing lanes and there's no one better in the league than rivers at that sort of skill
The most redeeming quality I find about Lamar is his humility and how keen he is to improve. He always seems to acknowledge where he made a mistake and thinks about it but yet is able to move on from it. I like the kid's ability to keep improving game in and game out. Sure, he needs to work on his mechanics and I think your notes make sense. However, I am also of the opinion that with an off season with Urban or another QB coach he's going to only get much better. The final thing I'll note is he isn't necessarily looking to run unless it is a designed run which bodes well for the future.
 

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
@Edgar
awesome work on the 2 lamar vs chiefs videos and the 2 minute drill - some really nice points of analysis (some that kinda confirmed what im seeing and some bits and pieces that were more surprising)

  • the mechanics are interesting - his mechanics have a higher level of variance than id like - when he throws with good mechanics he looks great but a good point you made in the cut ups is that his mechanics get real wonky when he rushes his throws and not necessarily due to pressure but on those screens and quick routes where he's almost too keen to pull the trigger and he almost over follows through with his arm and his body doesnt towards the target which leads to the ball hitting the turf - its frustrating because when he steps up he's mostly looking do so with a nice wide base and a good follow through and he's thrown some really nice passes but consistency is key - i wonder if partly its down to a little laziness on those shorter throws because they should be easier so he doesnt force himself to use those new mechanics that he's been installing since he got to baltimore - but the shorter passes outside the numbers on screens and stuff has been disappointing
  • the amount of short stuff that's open with the current system and scheme is incredible - it's both great and concerning at the same time that lamar isnt looking to the leaking out back or checkdown enough - he seems to want to find that play downfield but isnt always taking what the defence is offering him (especially on 1st and 2nd down)
  • a little late reading underneath (@JoeyFlex5 this could potentially be his own tacit acknowledgement that he knows he's susceptible to losing track of the linebackers underneath and doesnt want to create turnovers so he maybe doubts himself a little and that makes him hold the ball too long - but that's pure conjecture by me)
  • good reading of the field as he goes through progressions - still doesnt see the seam so well (at least consistently or quickly) - if Lamar starts reading those seams as open a little earlier mark andrews is going to look like a big play machine because he finds that space so well
ultimately im really impressed with him - there's a lot to work on but the passing game looks like there's some easy avenues to improve significantly in very meaningful but fairly simple ways

no matter whether we make the playoffs i think going back and doing some self-film-study of his own game in the starts he's got this year are going to stand him in good stead - i know they do tape reviews after every game but i think lamar will learn a lot from watching how defences attack him and the spaces that those coverages typically create with the scheme and system we run

the other thing is that now he has a nice mechanical basis to work with id like to see him focus on good reps of those mechanics and not allowing himself to get lazy or lose that new footwork and lower body work when he gets in difficult situations (or rushed/hurried situations)

i hope he learns something from rivers this weekend @ the chargers - lamar likes to use the sidearm pass to get the ball past rushers clogging the passing lanes and there's no one better in the league than rivers at that sort of skill
The most redeeming quality I find about Lamar is his humility and how keen he is to improve. He always seems to acknowledge where he made a mistake and thinks about it but yet is able to move on from it. I like the kid's ability to keep improving game in and game out. Sure, he needs to work on his mechanics and I think your notes make sense. However, I am also of the opinion that with an off season with Urban or another QB coach he's going to only get much better. The final thing I'll note is he isn't necessarily looking to run unless it is a designed run which bodes well for the future.
 
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