• Welcome to PurpleFlock! Be sure to sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.

Lamar Jackson

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Except after Miami and about half of Arizona Lamar was not very good until around midseason when he basically exploded into an unstoppable force. Comparing him to his worst games last year is not really good when you expect young players to improve over time and not massively regress to their worst point last seaosn.

that's not what this is saying

this is literally drawing a parallel to how this offence was similarly stymied early last year before they turned it on after the bye
it's suggesting that we could follow that same pattern of early season troubles that get rectified by the bye week and that we went from a statistically worse offence than this last year to a historically efficient offence via that off-period

the run last year of offensive efficiency wiped out in a lot of people's minds the fact that we really struggled through the first 5 games of the year
 

ravenslord

Ravens Ring of Honor
Look the bottom line is if you have a offensive line playing like garbage it will be difficult for any QB , even one as fast as Lamar to put up extremely stellar numbers. Last year the line had an A performance. This year its a D performance.

And yet Lamar has 10 tds and 2 picks I believe. Pretty damn good imho.
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
While it is slipping, I still have faith in #8 to right the ship and just play smart football. Just clean up the TOs.
 

Ravensnation5220

Ravens Ring of Honor
While it is slipping, I still have faith in #8 to right the ship and just play smart football. Just clean up the TOs.
I think hes forcing things listening to the media too much. Just tune it all out and focus on you. Hes not playing fast at all, no decisiveness in his play.
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
PFF's Mike Renner wrote an interesting article:
(...)
With Jackson’s PFF grade going from 91.1 in the regular season last year to 74.2 now, it’s hard not to wonder if defenses have, in fact, “figured out” the Ravens' quarterback. I put that in quotation marks because the notion itself is a bit silly. There’s no completely figuring out such a dynamic athlete at the position, and even with his struggles, Jackson brings one of the highest floors at the position on a weekly basis.

But at the same time, the Ravens' scheme is one of a kind compared to the rest of the NFL. Just like the Patriots' deployment of quarters coverages against the LA Rams in the Super Bowl put Sean McVay’s offense in a funk that lasted throughout the next season, there’s a legitimate worry that unique offensive schemes can be “figured out” to a degree with certain defensive tactics.

Let’s look into what the Chiefs, Bengals and now the Patriots — three of Jackson's four worst passing grades on the season, with the other being against a Steelers defense that gives everyone fits — did to neutralize the reigning MVP.

The first thing to note is that not much of real consequence has changed with the Ravens' offense philosophically. With Greg Roman still on as offensive coordinator, their usage of shifts and motion (71.1% in 2019 vs. 68.8% in 2020), play action (35.2% vs. 32.4%) and heavy sets have been unchanged. What has changed is how teams have been willing to match them.

The two things that jump off the tape when studying what those three defenses were able to do against Jackson was their almost counterintuitive usage of lighter personnel and man coverage.

To understand why those are counterintuitive, you have to first understand the genius of the Ravens' rushing offense. What Baltimore does offensively is really a spread attack disguised as a smash-mouth one. The offense deploys multiple tight ends and fullbacks and run concepts like counter or power. Those are downhill run concepts, but because of the jet or orbit motions and options they tag onto them, the majority of their biggest run plays come laterally. The two plays below are great examples of this.

This first one is a quarterback counter play against the Chiefs. Traditionally, counter wants to hit inside the pullers straight upfield. Because the roles are flipped here and the blocking is set up for the quarterback, the linebackers take the eye candy of the running back who is running wide left instead of maintaining their responsibilities versus the pulling linemen. No one has contain to the playside, and it doesn’t matter if someone pulls around as the lead blocker — this play is going for a massive gain.

LamarChiefsCounter.gif


The second is seemingly a power run against the Bengals from 21 personnel where they once again get the defense packed in tight. This time, the defense doesn’t see the eye candy of the orbit motion from Devin Duvernay until it’s too late. And once again, it's a massive run well outside the tackles that has nothing to do with the offensive line.

DuvernayBengals.gif


The counterintuitive nature, as I’m sure you’ve picked up on by now, is that defenses have had to combat these types of runs with more beef in the box for almost the entire history of football. With the way the Ravens are set up, though, having the speed to track to the edge to make tackles is arguably as important, if not more, than being stout up front. Going lighter doesn’t mean being worse against the run.

Defenses have started figuring this out, and the Ravens have already seen 102 snaps against dime personnel (six-plus defensive backs) in 2020 after seeing only 76 in all of 2019. The consequence of opposing defenses being far more willing to defend Baltimore's running game with lighter personnel is that there has been far more speed to match the passing attack, as well.

Jackson’s most efficient passing situations last season came on early downs against base personnel, earning a 90.9 passing grade in those situations. When faced with nickel or dime packages that season, the MVP earned only a 76.8 passing grade on 326 dropbacks. Now, that grade is 66.0 and he’s on pace for over 70 more such dropbacks.

That passing grade has dropped in those situations largely because teams are far more willing to play man coverage against Jackson on money downs. This is counterintuitive because defensive coordinators are usually hesitant to play man against mobile quarterbacks — especially one of Jackson’s caliber. With defenders’ eyes locked in on their particular receivers, you don’t have more than maybe one guy to try and track down Jackson if he breaks the pocket. That’s a scary thought.

The aforementioned Chiefs, Bengals and Patriots, however, played man coverage a combined 24 times on 38 third-down plays against Jackson. He earned a 31.5 passing grade on those plays, and he has just a 52.5 passing grade against man coverage for the season. Those three teams played man against Jackson more than any of the nine defenses he’s faced this season. One important change they often made against Jackson, however, was to either eschew the traditional deep middle defender altogether or double spy him. Below, you can see the Chiefs deploying doing the former and the Pats doing the latter.

On this third-and-6 early in the second quarter, the Chiefs sit what looked to be their middle-of-the-field safety at the sticks on this man blitz against empty. Not only will a blitz clog up escape lanes, but the safety's eyes are on the quarterback and he should be able to make a stop should Jackson break the pocket.

ChiefsNoMOF.gif


Here, you can see the Patriots deploying a spy (circled in red) along with a traditional hole player (circled in white) in man coverage on a third down that would end with a completion short of the sticks Sunday night.

PatsDoubleSpy.jpg


Jackson has a very high-level understanding of zone concepts and how the Ravens' offense attacks them. He’s one of the best anticipation throwers in the NFL. It’s why he shreds over the middle of the field. Against man coverage, however, ball placement is still king. Anticipation still helps plenty, but there’s no substitute for being able to hit small windows — and Jackson simply hasn’t done that.

This season, Jackson’s 5.0 yards per attempt against man coverage ranks dead last among starters, while his 65.0 adjusted completion percentage is fifth-worst. And that worry about Jackson running wild? He’s scrambled past the line on only four out of 79 dropbacks against man coverage this season, with two of those resulting in first downs.

Is Jackson figured out? Hell no. Is there a playbook for how to better attack what the Ravens are doing offensively? 100%. Combine that with the fact that their offensive line is now a shell of the 2019 version with right guard Marshal Yanda retired and left tackle Stanley out for the season with an ankle injury, and it’s difficult to see this ship being righted anytime soon.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
PFF's Mike Renner wrote an interesting article:
(...)
With Jackson’s PFF grade going from 91.1 in the regular season last year to 74.2 now, it’s hard not to wonder if defenses have, in fact, “figured out” the Ravens' quarterback. I put that in quotation marks because the notion itself is a bit silly. There’s no completely figuring out such a dynamic athlete at the position, and even with his struggles, Jackson brings one of the highest floors at the position on a weekly basis.

But at the same time, the Ravens' scheme is one of a kind compared to the rest of the NFL. Just like the Patriots' deployment of quarters coverages against the LA Rams in the Super Bowl put Sean McVay’s offense in a funk that lasted throughout the next season, there’s a legitimate worry that unique offensive schemes can be “figured out” to a degree with certain defensive tactics.

Let’s look into what the Chiefs, Bengals and now the Patriots — three of Jackson's four worst passing grades on the season, with the other being against a Steelers defense that gives everyone fits — did to neutralize the reigning MVP.

The first thing to note is that not much of real consequence has changed with the Ravens' offense philosophically. With Greg Roman still on as offensive coordinator, their usage of shifts and motion (71.1% in 2019 vs. 68.8% in 2020), play action (35.2% vs. 32.4%) and heavy sets have been unchanged. What has changed is how teams have been willing to match them.

The two things that jump off the tape when studying what those three defenses were able to do against Jackson was their almost counterintuitive usage of lighter personnel and man coverage.

To understand why those are counterintuitive, you have to first understand the genius of the Ravens' rushing offense. What Baltimore does offensively is really a spread attack disguised as a smash-mouth one. The offense deploys multiple tight ends and fullbacks and run concepts like counter or power. Those are downhill run concepts, but because of the jet or orbit motions and options they tag onto them, the majority of their biggest run plays come laterally. The two plays below are great examples of this.

This first one is a quarterback counter play against the Chiefs. Traditionally, counter wants to hit inside the pullers straight upfield. Because the roles are flipped here and the blocking is set up for the quarterback, the linebackers take the eye candy of the running back who is running wide left instead of maintaining their responsibilities versus the pulling linemen. No one has contain to the playside, and it doesn’t matter if someone pulls around as the lead blocker — this play is going for a massive gain.

LamarChiefsCounter.gif


The second is seemingly a power run against the Bengals from 21 personnel where they once again get the defense packed in tight. This time, the defense doesn’t see the eye candy of the orbit motion from Devin Duvernay until it’s too late. And once again, it's a massive run well outside the tackles that has nothing to do with the offensive line.

DuvernayBengals.gif


The counterintuitive nature, as I’m sure you’ve picked up on by now, is that defenses have had to combat these types of runs with more beef in the box for almost the entire history of football. With the way the Ravens are set up, though, having the speed to track to the edge to make tackles is arguably as important, if not more, than being stout up front. Going lighter doesn’t mean being worse against the run.

Defenses have started figuring this out, and the Ravens have already seen 102 snaps against dime personnel (six-plus defensive backs) in 2020 after seeing only 76 in all of 2019. The consequence of opposing defenses being far more willing to defend Baltimore's running game with lighter personnel is that there has been far more speed to match the passing attack, as well.

Jackson’s most efficient passing situations last season came on early downs against base personnel, earning a 90.9 passing grade in those situations. When faced with nickel or dime packages that season, the MVP earned only a 76.8 passing grade on 326 dropbacks. Now, that grade is 66.0 and he’s on pace for over 70 more such dropbacks.

That passing grade has dropped in those situations largely because teams are far more willing to play man coverage against Jackson on money downs. This is counterintuitive because defensive coordinators are usually hesitant to play man against mobile quarterbacks — especially one of Jackson’s caliber. With defenders’ eyes locked in on their particular receivers, you don’t have more than maybe one guy to try and track down Jackson if he breaks the pocket. That’s a scary thought.

The aforementioned Chiefs, Bengals and Patriots, however, played man coverage a combined 24 times on 38 third-down plays against Jackson. He earned a 31.5 passing grade on those plays, and he has just a 52.5 passing grade against man coverage for the season. Those three teams played man against Jackson more than any of the nine defenses he’s faced this season. One important change they often made against Jackson, however, was to either eschew the traditional deep middle defender altogether or double spy him. Below, you can see the Chiefs deploying doing the former and the Pats doing the latter.

On this third-and-6 early in the second quarter, the Chiefs sit what looked to be their middle-of-the-field safety at the sticks on this man blitz against empty. Not only will a blitz clog up escape lanes, but the safety's eyes are on the quarterback and he should be able to make a stop should Jackson break the pocket.

ChiefsNoMOF.gif


Here, you can see the Patriots deploying a spy (circled in red) along with a traditional hole player (circled in white) in man coverage on a third down that would end with a completion short of the sticks Sunday night.

PatsDoubleSpy.jpg


Jackson has a very high-level understanding of zone concepts and how the Ravens' offense attacks them. He’s one of the best anticipation throwers in the NFL. It’s why he shreds over the middle of the field. Against man coverage, however, ball placement is still king. Anticipation still helps plenty, but there’s no substitute for being able to hit small windows — and Jackson simply hasn’t done that.

This season, Jackson’s 5.0 yards per attempt against man coverage ranks dead last among starters, while his 65.0 adjusted completion percentage is fifth-worst. And that worry about Jackson running wild? He’s scrambled past the line on only four out of 79 dropbacks against man coverage this season, with two of those resulting in first downs.

Is Jackson figured out? Hell no. Is there a playbook for how to better attack what the Ravens are doing offensively? 100%. Combine that with the fact that their offensive line is now a shell of the 2019 version with right guard Marshal Yanda retired and left tackle Stanley out for the season with an ankle injury, and it’s difficult to see this ship being righted anytime soon.
One of the greatest runners in the history of the nfl, playing qb, and frequently facing man coverage....

Bruh, use those fucking legs, their backs are turned, out run that 4 man rush and do it while the DBs back are turned.
 

Charm City

Pro Bowler
One of the greatest runners in the history of the nfl, playing qb, and frequently facing man coverage....

Bruh, use those fucking legs, their backs are turned, out run that 4 man rush and do it while the DBs back are turned.
The problem with that is there's usually a spy in the middle and the outside passrushers are playing contain and preventing him from escaping outside. That pretty much means he's going to need to make a man miss on most occassions
 

RL52TheGreatest

Ravens Ring of Honor
One of the greatest runners in the history of the nfl, playing qb, and frequently facing man coverage....

Bruh, use those fucking legs, their backs are turned, out run that 4 man rush and do it while the DBs back are turned.

I think Lamar has been battling an injury or two all season which is why he hasn't been running as much or as effectively. He's still shown flashes of his explosiveness this season, but he just hasn't looked full speed IMO. So many plays this year, Lamar has gotten caught when he would have DUSTED them before.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
The problem with that is there's usually a spy in the middle and the outside passrushers are playing contain and preventing him from escaping outside. That pretty much means he's going to need to make a man miss on most occassions
He made many men miss, suddenly he can’t? He made professional ass football players look like newborn Bambi, weekly, over the course of an entire season. Suddenly he’s unable to? I’m thinking more along the lines of him just refusing to use his legs because he wants so badly to silence his critics
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
He made many men miss, suddenly he can’t? He made professional ass football players look like newborn Bambi, weekly, over the course of an entire season. Suddenly he’s unable to? I’m thinking more along the lines of him just refusing to use his legs because he wants so badly to silence his critics

tbf teams have put quicker athletes on the field to defend him this year - we're seeing more dime packages than we did last year - more comparable athletes vs the guys he was able to make look stupid all the time (not saying he didnt make some dbs look stupid but it's harder to consistently do that when the other athletes are better than they were last year)
 

Charm City

Pro Bowler
He made many men miss, suddenly he can’t? He made professional ass football players look like newborn Bambi, weekly, over the course of an entire season. Suddenly he’s unable to? I’m thinking more along the lines of him just refusing to use his legs because he wants so badly to silence his critics
No one said he can't do it, because if anyone can its him, but there's a balance that needs to be achieved. I agree with you that too often this year he decides he'd rather force the ball into a tight window to potentially gain 15 yards rather than just take the easy 5-10 with his legs. Imo thats one of the reasons we were so good last year. We methodically marched down the field consistently and a large part of that was Lamar just keeping us ahead of the chains.
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
No one said he can't do it, because if anyone can its him, but there's a balance that needs to be achieved. I agree with you that too often this year he decides he'd rather force the ball into a tight window to potentially gain 15 yards rather than just take the easy 5-10 with his legs. Imo thats one of the reasons we were so good last year. We methodically marched down the field consistently and a large part of that was Lamar just keeping us ahead of the chains.


That is correct, though I can understand his frustrations along with Hollywood. Lamar has said routinely now that he would prefer to throw TD's instead of running. Though you don't want to rely on his legs, he was the reason the offense looked unstoppable because he time after time kept drives alive and moved the chains. So much so that the defense fed off of his energy. B-Williams going crazy on the sideline asking Lamar if he wanted the ball back is an example of that.



So until Greg or Lamar figure out what to do with our speedy WR's and using the short/middle of the field a little more, Lamar is going to have to pick up the slack
 

Militant X 1

Ravens Ring of Honor
He made many men miss, suddenly he can’t? He made professional ass football players look like newborn Bambi, weekly, over the course of an entire season. Suddenly he’s unable to? I’m thinking more along the lines of him just refusing to use his legs because he wants so badly to silence his critics

I agree. There were a few times vs the Patriots that Lamar could have taken off and gained huge yards with his legs but he didn't run! I was pissed! :brickwall:
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
tbf teams have put quicker athletes on the field to defend him this year - we're seeing more dime packages than we did last year - more comparable athletes vs the guys he was able to make look stupid all the time (not saying he didnt make some dbs look stupid but it's harder to consistently do that when the other athletes are better than they were last year)
This is true and a fair point but the yards being left on the field is pretty unacceptable considering how incredible Lamar is running the ball. This post applies to many snaps, but not all, because even with a spy Lamar has windows to run where you’re looking at bare minimum shortening the down and distance by a nice chunk, which snowballs because now the playbook is wide open, and instead he opts to drop his head, spin, roll out, and throw on the run and often for an incompletion.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
This is true and a fair point but the yards being left on the field is pretty unacceptable considering how incredible Lamar is running the ball. This post applies to many snaps, but not all, because even with a spy Lamar has windows to run where you’re looking at bare minimum shortening the down and distance by a nice chunk, which snowballs because now the playbook is wide open, and instead he opts to drop his head, spin, roll out, and throw on the run and often for an incompletion.

that's fair enough but I really don't see him turning down yards that often - I can really only think of 1 time in the Pats game where taking off was the better option where the Pats were in man with their backs turned and he had clean grass ahead of him at least 10 yards down the field
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
that's fair enough but I really don't see him turning down yards that often - I can really only think of 1 time in the Pats game where taking off was the better option where the Pats were in man with their backs turned and he had clean grass ahead of him at least 10 yards down the field
but see missing one or 2 of those can be absolute game changers, its often the difference between a first down and punt, which again snowballs into longer drives, which snowballs into more plays and the defense having more to adjust to, and more chances for big plays etc etc.

listen to every defensive person in the league commenting on lamar, they all say that you can do everything right in pass coverage and pass rush and still give up the first down when he uses his legs, they all say how demoralizing it is. when we are methodically and efficiently moving its usually because lamar converts one or two with his legs
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
but see missing one or 2 of those can be absolute game changers, its often the difference between a first down and punt, which again snowballs into longer drives, which snowballs into more plays and the defense having more to adjust to, and more chances for big plays etc etc.

listen to every defensive person in the league commenting on lamar, they all say that you can do everything right in pass coverage and pass rush and still give up the first down when he uses his legs, they all say how demoralizing it is. when we are methodically and efficiently moving its usually because lamar converts one or two with his legs

i dont disagree with you - but he also wasnt scrambling a ton last year, it was mostly designed runs whereas this year the times when it opens up are when he's scrambling which is a different mindset

but because of those faster athletes on defence this year those opportunities to scramble are fewer - i really think the lack of lamar runs (certainly outside runs) are overblown - id like to see more of those inverted veer concepts where dobbins the reads are reversed and lamar's taken inside not outside but that's an inherently more dangerous play but it has rewarded us big-time when we get it right

but the lamar keeper on the zone-read to get outside for the easiest 6-10 yards in football last year isnt happening anywhere near as often because of the defensive adjustments teams have made from 2019-2020 and the different personnel teams are putting on the field against the ravens - teams are forcing the give read because they know we aren't going to win up the middle handing it off to ingram for maybe 4 yards a pop on 1st down especially with our patchwork offensive line (but even before then)
 
Top