Lamar Jackson

[Thezone27]

Doesn't help that our fan base has become much more insufferable since the 2019 season. Brought in a lot of the younger fans that just use social media to pump their own theories, and somehow people are still falling for that stuff. How many people said Ronnie Stanley was going to retire/never be able to play again? This isn't that different. People frustrated with a lack of information fill in gaps with their own thoughts and people fall into the trap.

So many bandwagoners.

 

[RavensMania]

Doesn't help that our fan base has become much more insufferable since the 2019 season. Brought in a lot of the younger fans that just use social media to pump their own theories, and somehow people are still falling for that stuff. How many people said Ronnie Stanley was going to retire/never be able to play again? This isn't that different. People frustrated with a lack of information fill in gaps with their own thoughts and people fall into the trap.

and prior to social media being the number 1 way fans get their news in sports, we didn't have this issue at all.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Doesn't help that our fan base has become much more insufferable since the 2019 season. Brought in a lot of the younger fans that just use social media to pump their own theories, and somehow people are still falling for that stuff. How many people said Ronnie Stanley was going to retire/never be able to play again? This isn't that different. People frustrated with a lack of information fill in gaps with their own thoughts and people fall into the trap.

When you say "younger fans", we all know what we're talking about. It's the "Lamar club". They're not going to be Ravens fans the moment Lamar plays in another uniform.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

I think the Lamar club is largely fictional. People who are broadly happy with the traditional Ravens way of doing things (running, defense and special teams) use it to attack those who want a more modern approach.

 

[rossihunter2]

Doesn't help that our fan base has become much more insufferable since the 2019 season. Brought in a lot of the younger fans that just use social media to pump their own theories, and somehow people are still falling for that stuff. How many people said Ronnie Stanley was going to retire/never be able to play again? This isn't that different. People frustrated with a lack of information fill in gaps with their own thoughts and people fall into the trap.

the major downside to a team that doesnt leak stuff

fans much more liable to going batshit insane

and as you say this newer group don't have the patience of longer-suffering fans who are more used to stability in ownership, GM, coach etc. than maybe some of these newer fans are

also they dont have the context of how bad things can actually be...

 

[RavensMania]

the major downside to a team that doesnt leak stuff

fans much more liable to going batshit insane

and as you say this newer group don't have the patience of longer-suffering fans who are more used to stability in ownership, GM, coach etc. than maybe some of these newer fans are

also they dont have the context of how bad things can actually be...

I was a fan of a franchise that leaked information for many years and it was extremely frustrating. Washington had / has PR leaks all the time and it's much better to be a a fan of a franchise where information isn't leaked.

 

[Tank]

My problem with all of this discussion, yet again...

is that people are having entire discussions about whether it's right for lamar to sit-out or for the coaches to be frustrated, or for fans to be frustrated etc. etc. etc.

entirely based on things that have not been said

unless i've missed something - it has never been indicated that Lamar could play with a brace, it has not therefore been indicated that Harbs or the coaches are frustrated with lamar or his rehab or his willingness to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want a long-term deal

i get that a lack of information causes people to fill in gaps with thoughts and prognostications - and that everyone's in doom and gloom mode because lamar's still not practicing (which means we know absolutely nothing about his status)

but we've got whole threads getting derailed by these discussions that are not based in anything except pure fantasy and i find it infuriating to read every single week

Right, much of it is subjective discussion, like 95% of what is discussed on a fan board. lol
What has kind of set off my detector is Rich Eisen's commentary as he has always been a staunch Ravens, and staunch LJ supporter. But I completely agree the lack of information always lends itself to interpretation.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think the Lamar club is largely fictional. People who are broadly happy with the traditional Ravens way of doing things (running, defense and special teams) use it to attack those who want a more modern approach.

lol, not really. There's plenty of those people, but the "Lamar club" is precisely those people who had zero interest in cheering for the Ravens prior to 2019. And we're not talking just 16 year olds who woke up to watch football for the first time either.

They're not hard to find. And like I said, just watch. When or if Lamar plays for another team, those people's favorite team will suddenly change.

And make no mistake... the same contingency existed for Joe Flacco too. Even on these boards alone, there were plenty of people who left the boards right around the 2018/2019 timeframe when the transition from Joe to Lamar became clear.

Not to mention that the Ravens philosophy since Lamar has gotten here has been centered around the traditional way of doing things, aka running, defense and ST.

 

[Simba]

the major downside to a team that doesnt leak stuff

fans much more liable to going batshit insane

and as you say this newer group don't have the patience of longer-suffering fans who are more used to stability in ownership, GM, coach etc. than maybe some of these newer fans are

also they dont have the context of how bad things can actually be...

Patience is the key word here to me. Every time we have a bad game, someone needs to be fired. Every time some information is wrong, someone needs to be fired. There's a reason the Ravens are a cream of the crop sports organization and it's not because they react to every little thing with emotion.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Patience is the key word here to me. Every time we have a bad game, someone needs to be fired. Every time some information is wrong, someone needs to be fired. There's a reason the Ravens are a cream of the crop sports organization and it's not because they react to every little thing with emotion.

Also that firing coaches and coordinators doesn't guarantee improvement. Or basically just look at half the franchises in the league that routinely fire everybody and still never win anything for decades.

 

[Sandtown]

I think the Lamar club is largely fictional. People who are broadly happy with the traditional Ravens way of doing things (running, defense and special teams) use it to attack those who want a more modern approach.

Nah it's not but you can believe what you want. There is a legit just Lamar fans out here that claim they are Raven fans. If Lamar went to another team they would go along with him. I aint saying it's wrong but it is what it is.

 

[Simba]

Also that firing coaches and coordinators doesn't guarantee improvement. Or basically just look at half the franchises in the league that routinely fire everybody and still never win anything for decades.

People don't understand the ramifications of those types of actions. Sometimes it's definitely necessary and I think we're approaching that this offseason with a certain coordinator, but that's not the norm. People never stop to think of the cultural shift that happens when moves like that are made. We've spent years drafting for a certain type of team and firing someone every step of the way is the exact way you get to and stay in the dweller.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Nah it's not but you can believe what you want. There is a legit just Lamar fans out here that claim they are Raven fans. If Lamar went to another team they would go along with him. I aint saying it's wrong but it is what it is.

There's not really anything wrong with it. Happens plenty of times. LeBron is great example. In NFL, no shortage of people who stayed with Peyton, Brady, etc. for their entire career. That's perfectly fine if you choose to do that.

Just acknowledging that it exists is important, and understanding that people who cheer for teams, rather than players, tend to give less credibility and value to opinions of those who's interests are primarily aligned with individual players best interests, rather than the best interests of the organization.

Hence why when I come in contact with the "give Lamar a blank check" crowd, they've earned the eye roll when they claim to be Ravens fans. It doesn't benefit the organization, in any way, to give a blank check. Maybe they decide to do it anyway, but as a fan, I know that decreases the likelihood of adding better personnel to upgrade the team. And that's what's in my interest.

 

[Michael M.]

There's not really anything wrong with it. Happens plenty of times. LeBron is great example. In NFL, no shortage of people who stayed with Peyton, Brady, etc. for their entire career. That's perfectly fine if you choose to do that.

Just acknowledging that it exists is important, and understanding that people who cheer for teams, rather than players, tend to give less credibility and value to opinions of those who's interests are primarily aligned with individual players best interests, rather than the best interests of the organization.

Hence why when I come in contact with the "give Lamar a blank check" crowd, they've earned the eye roll when they claim to be Ravens fans. It doesn't benefit the organization, in any way, to give a blank check. Maybe they decide to do it anyway, but as a fan, I know that decreases the likelihood of adding better personnel to upgrade the team. And that's what's in my interest.

I agree that I want to see the team succeed not just Lamar. Interesting that you mention LeBron-I remember reading that that's who Lamar spent time with in the offseason.

 

[RavensMania]

Also that firing coaches and coordinators doesn't guarantee improvement. Or basically just look at half the franchises in the league that routinely fire everybody and still never win anything for decades.

agree that firing coaches doesn't guarantee improvement and I seriously doubt we would improve if we fired Harbaugh, but firing Roman who has been here since 2018 isn't "firing coaches all the time". That's not what the Ravens do.

 

[Michael M.]

agree that firing coaches doesn't guarantee improvement and I seriously doubt we would improve if we fired Harbaugh, but firing Roman who has been here since 2018 isn't "firing coaches all the time". That's not what the Ravens do.

Harbaugh stays: 100% Lamar stays: 90% Roman stays: 40%

 

[rmcjacket23]

agree that firing coaches doesn't guarantee improvement and I seriously doubt we would improve if we fired Harbaugh, but firing Roman who has been here since 2018 isn't "firing coaches all the time". That's not what the Ravens do.

Agreed. Not suggesting we should never fire anybody. It's just that there's a large contingency of the fanbase that thinks firing coordinators or any coaches solves all problems. And they think that because it worked like one time, and then ignore the fact that it didn't work a bunch of other times.

Moving on from Roman is a piece of the problem. It's not the whole problem.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Harbaugh has created this negative situation. He's super competitive and a bit of an asshole so he gets unjustifiably pissed off when important players are injured.

He implied Ronnie Stanley was slow-playing his injury, and now's he's doing the same thing with Lamar. The Ravens also forced JK back onto the field eary this year.

Zriebec reported about a week ago that Lamar had a limp when he was walking around the facility. He's clearly injured. I don't know why Harbaugh felt he had to imply that Lamar is malingering.

We definitely didn’t force jk on the field early though. He was pushing to come back for training camp where we held him out, then continued to hold him out of games, then after just a few weeks he needed a surgery, now he’s on a pitch count.

Stanley came back early last year, but there’s no indication he was forced back early.

 

[redrum52]

You sure its the same people though? Because I'm pretty sure I can find a couple on here who spend two years bashing Stanley and predicting he'd never play again, who are pretty content with taking the "pro-Lamar" position on this.

I'm in the pro Lamar camp but never bashed Stanley for an injury he couldn't control. Didn't think he'd come back 100% but that's due to Harbs stance on injury information and me leaning more on the pessimistic side. I know why he does it but as a fan you'd rather hear nothing than the gamesmanship which most coaches don't seem to fall for anyway.

That said didn't expect Lamar back before the Bengals game anyway if he came back.

 

[RavensMania]

Agreed. Not suggesting we should never fire anybody. It's just that there's a large contingency of the fanbase that thinks firing coordinators or any coaches solves all problems. And they think that because it worked like one time, and then ignore the fact that it didn't work a bunch of other times.

Moving on from Roman is a piece of the problem. It's not the whole problem.

absolutely correct and this is correct about all fanbases, not just the Ravens. Fans are fanatics for a reason.

Washington fans are calling for Riviera's head, but I think that would be a massive mistake for multiple reasons. Most importantly if he actually is planning on selling the team he has an experienced head coach at the helm. Than the new owner can make his own decision on whether to keep him or not. Washington has changed coaches over and over again for pretty much the same lack of success.