Lamar Jackson

[rmcjacket23]

This is just so funny. You look at things from some constructed view of how things are in your head. I'm only taking into account the literal real life outcomes. This team was never going to win the SB. Everyone knew that. No one is sad that we're not going to win. You can't be let down by this team.

That being said even with actually one of the most limited QBs I've ever seen (a hurt Huntley) we are still competing in every game. It's not a lot to ask of your team to put a QB who's not hurt out there.

I mean for fucks sake if they didn't pretend like Lamar wasn't hurt they could have easily IRd him and started playing AB earlier. You'd be in a much more comfortable position now.

What "literal real life outcomes"? The literal real life outcomes are all of those guys are unemployed because they suck. That's a real life outcome. What's not a real life outcome is the expectation that they'd somehow manage to save a sinking ship.
If we're not going to win, then who the fuck cares who the QB is? What the hell is the purpose of signing these guys if we think the outcome is the same with or without them? Are they going to be playing like Special Teams or something?

The Lamar to IR think is laughably stupid. It doesn't benefit the team to put him on IR. IR means no practice for four weeks. You'll not be able to convince me that the team knew from 12/4 forward that Lamar wouldn't be able to practice for four weeks.

Not to mention if I IR him, who am I bringing to the active roster that matters that isn't already here? AB is on the roster. Lamar going on IR didn't change that.

 

[Simba]

What "literal real life outcomes"? The literal real life outcomes are all of those guys are unemployed because they suck. That's a real life outcome. What's not a real life outcome is the expectation that they'd somehow manage to save a sinking ship.
If we're not going to win, then who the fuck cares who the QB is? What the hell is the purpose of signing these guys if we think the outcome is the same with or without them? Are they going to be playing like Special Teams or something?

The Lamar to IR think is laughably stupid. It doesn't benefit the team to put him on IR. IR means no practice for four weeks. You'll not be able to convince me that the team knew from 12/4 forward that Lamar wouldn't be able to practice for four weeks.

Not to mention if I IR him, who am I bringing to the active roster that matters that isn't already here? AB is on the roster. Lamar going on IR didn't change that.

I’m with you in this one. When Lamar went down, we turned to Brett Hundley as the insurance. That alone should tell you what the team thinks of the other options on the open market. Decent QBs aren’t just sitting out there.

 

[UPennChem]

And before you type it, I'll put it this way... if you're saying the Ravens should have had the foresight to have Johnson as the backup over Huntley all year long, I feel as strongly about that being total bullshit as you feel about whether the Ravens did or didn't lie about injuries.

Think I'm way stupider than I am. You like to fixate on certain parts (it's OK when I've made a factual mistake like the timeline for Johnson) and ignore the total. And so far so to predict what I'm gonna say and do so incorrectly.

I've made it clear as my first premise in my first message. The Ravens made their bed the moment they made a hurt Huntley QB2. When Lamar is healthy, that decision doesn't hurt you. When he's hurt it does. Well, he got hurt.

I don't think it's so ridiculous to say you should put a non hurt QB on the field. If that means getting AB out there earlier, or finding someone on the street you like, those are your options. But what you instead saw was trot out hurt Huntley and commit to probably losing.

 

[Davesta]

You ain’t gonna get me riled up and in trouble again sir

 

[UPennChem]

I’m with you in this one. When Lamar went down, we turned to Brett Hundley as the insurance. That alone should tell you what the team thinks of the other options on the open market. Decent QBs aren’t just sitting out there.

And that's ok. But maybe Hundley doesn't take a stupid sack on the goal line. Maybe he's worse and is incapable of making that throw to Watkins.

This board is sometimes so insufferable because my core point is simply put a healthy QB on the field. One way to do that would be to get a guy off the street. One way to do that would be Hundley. Another way would have been to go to AB.

I'm at least consistent. I've been saying I'm absolutely pro AB over Huntley for the remainder of this season. Believe he should've been out there earlier.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Think I'm way stupider than I am. You like to fixate on certain parts (it's OK when I've made a factual mistake like the timeline for Johnson) and ignore the total. And so far so to predict what I'm gonna say and do so incorrectly.

I've made it clear as my first premise in my first message. The Ravens made their bed the moment they made a hurt Huntley QB2. When Lamar is healthy, that decision doesn't hurt you. When he's hurt it does. Well, he got hurt.

I don't think it's so ridiculous to say you should put a non hurt QB on the field. If that means getting AB out there earlier, or finding someone on the street you like, those are your options. But what you instead saw was trot out hurt Huntley and commit to probably losing.

1. I find the Huntley discussion a lot hindsight analysis, considering Huntley has been a darling all offseason for most fans. Maybe you weren't one of the one's who fell for the bait of thinking he's good (and he's not and you're right about that), but at the very least he showed enough to be considered a competent backup. He's just been injured and not played like it. That's life. I can't think of a single reason for the Ravens to go into the offseason or into the season thinking they needed a different backup QB based on what they saw last year.
2. I agree... they shouldn't put Huntley out there. They should put whoever the #3 is out there, which is AB. And if fans don't like that, tough shit.

The point is you've acknowledged that literally zero of the names you listed are going to save this team from losing. Not one. So then why are we discussing them at all? You play AB, and you lose. That's it. That's the solution. That's what the coaching staff and the FO SHOULD do.

This, to me, feels like fans caring more about "optics" than outcomes. They'd just rather look good losing. And I guess you "look good" if you bring in a "name" like a Cam Newton to assist with your team starting its offseason sooner.

The ships sinking. It's been sinking for weeks. We all know it, and there's nothing that can stop it from sinking. Now isn't the time to be second-guessing why we don't add more bodies to a sinking ship that's still going to sink.

 

[UPennChem]

What "literal real life outcomes"? The literal real life outcomes are all of those guys are unemployed because they suck. That's a real life outcome. What's not a real life outcome is the expectation that they'd somehow manage to save a sinking ship.
If we're not going to win, then who the fuck cares who the QB is? What the hell is the purpose of signing these guys if we think the outcome is the same with or without them? Are they going to be playing like Special Teams or something?

The Lamar to IR think is laughably stupid. It doesn't benefit the team to put him on IR. IR means no practice for four weeks. You'll not be able to convince me that the team knew from 12/4 forward that Lamar wouldn't be able to practice for four weeks.

Not to mention if I IR him, who am I bringing to the active roster that matters that isn't already here? AB is on the roster. Lamar going on IR didn't change that.

It's honestly beyond taxing to talk with you because these aren't real conversations so I'm gonna stop. But just in the way you feel strongly they didn't know on 12/4 that he had a significant injury, I feel very strongly they did.

NEITHER OF US WILL EVER KNOW FOR SURE.

It's OK to discuss things with people rather than do whatever it is this is

 

[rmcjacket23]

And that's ok. But maybe Hundley doesn't take a stupid sack on the goal line. Maybe he's worse and is incapable of making that throw to Watkins.

This board is sometimes so insufferable because my core point is simply put a healthy QB on the field. One way to do that would be to get a guy off the street. One way to do that would be Hundley. Another way would have been to go to AB.

I'm at least consistent. I've been saying I'm absolutely pro AB over Huntley for the remainder of this season. Believe he should've been out there earlier.

lol so then why don't you just make a post saying "start AB" instead of rattling off a bunch of names that suck and criticizing the FO for not taking measures in December to upgrade a QB room that's going to suck no matter what?

 

[UPennChem]

1. I find the Huntley discussion a lot hindsight analysis, considering Huntley has been a darling all offseason for most fans. Maybe you weren't one of the one's who fell for the bait of thinking he's good (and he's not and you're right about that), but at the very least he showed enough to be considered a competent backup. He's just been injured and not played like it. That's life. I can't think of a single reason for the Ravens to go into the offseason or into the season thinking they needed a different backup QB based on what they saw last year.
2. I agree... they shouldn't put Huntley out there. They should put whoever the #3 is out there, which is AB. And if fans don't like that, tough shit.

The point is you've acknowledged that literally zero of the names you listed are going to save this team from losing. Not one. So then why are we discussing them at all? You play AB, and you lose. That's it. That's the solution. That's what the coaching staff and the FO SHOULD do.

This, to me, feels like fans caring more about "optics" than outcomes. They'd just rather look good losing. And I guess you "look good" if you bring in a "name" like a Cam Newton to assist with your team starting its offseason sooner.

The ships sinking. It's been sinking for weeks. We all know it, and there's nothing that can stop it from sinking. Now isn't the time to be second-guessing why we don't add more bodies to a sinking ship that's still going to sink.

Yeah I was absolutely not one of those people.

Agree we should have been going AB.

Was not asserting we needed to get a guy on the street. Said originally a meaningfull attempt to help thr team. We'd spend the last week talking about AB. Incorrectly assumed you'd have understood that was the obvious first choice as we've been saying that for days. Provided the literal only other alternative which you enjoyed destroying.

Don't care about optics in losing. It's so funny when you project onto "fans generally". I always laugh because I've simply never agreed with any of it.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It's honestly beyond taxing to talk with you because these aren't real conversations so I'm gonna stop. But just in the way you feel strongly they didn't know on 12/4 that he had a significant injury, I feel very strongly they did.

NEITHER OF US WILL EVER KNOW FOR SURE.

It's OK to discuss things with people rather than do whatever it is this is

Do you honestly believe that having a discussion about whether Sean Mannion is an upgrade over Huntley or AB in December is really an actual "discussion"? You realize when they signed Hundley they went to the same trash heap of players that are unemployed and just picked the one who's been here before, right?

That's why Brown is #3. He's entirely unproven. But he signed here in May and spent the entire offseason here, learning the system, etc. That's WAY more valuable than anything Sean Mannion is going to bring you.

 

[UPennChem]

lol so then why don't you just make a post saying "start AB" instead of rattling off a bunch of names that suck and criticizing the FO for not taking measures in December to upgrade a QB room that's going to suck no matter what?

Read my other post

 

[SaltyDog]

Regardless of what it was, I find it quite comical that the Kyler Murray contract is "insulting" to some people. That's not a logical thought process at all.

Kyler Murray's contract is #4 in total value, #3 in AAV, #7 in signing bonus, #3 in $ gtd at signing, and #2 in practical gtd money. I honestly don't know why people think Lamar is somehow significantly higher than that, because there's really not much higher they can possibly go.

The most amusing part to me is literally the only difference between Murray's contract and Watson's contract is the guaranteed money. It's obviously a huge, material difference, but I don't think some fans really care about that either. Watson isn't making $50M a year. He's making $46M a year.

If the Ravens offered Lamar the exact same contract Murray got, I'd have zero issues with the Ravens stance. $46M a year, nearly 80% of it guaranteed. Will be top 5 paid at his position. That's not a bad deal by any possible metric.

The people that think its a bad deal only think that way because they think Lamar should get the Watson fully gtd deal. And as I've said before, I don't think he should nor do I think he will. From the Ravens OR anybody else. If he wants a fully gtd contract, he should be signing the Aaron Rodgers deal, which is a 3 year deal.

Yeah it’s not rocket science here. Every player has a value based on past performance and future potential. Lamar is projected to be highest rated FA in the 2023 market. He’s gonna get paid nicely, but people who think the ravens are going to overpay are gonna be disappointed. We are not the Cleveland Browns. Or at least not since 1995. Lol

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah I was absolutely not one of those people.

Agree we should have been going AB.

Was not asserting we needed to get a guy on the street. Said originally a meaningfull attempt to help thr team. We'd spend the last week talking about AB. Incorrectly assumed you'd have understood that was the obvious first choice as we've been saying that for days. Provided the literal only other alternative which you enjoyed destroying.

Don't care about optics in losing. It's so funny when you project onto "fans generally". I always laugh because I've simply never agreed with any of it.

I mean OK. I don't consider replacing Huntley with AB a "meaningful attempt to help the team". Same for signing literally anybody off the street. It's just replacing one QB who's not getting it done with another, and hoping the latter sucks a little less than the former. And while I think AB has more upside, we saw that he had problems not throwing the ball to the other team.

Which is precisely what I expect to see on Sunday. I think we'll score more points with AB out there, and I think the Bengals will score more points with AB out there.

 

[Simba]

And that's ok. But maybe Hundley doesn't take a stupid sack on the goal line. Maybe he's worse and is incapable of making that throw to Watkins.

This board is sometimes so insufferable because my core point is simply put a healthy QB on the field. One way to do that would be to get a guy off the street. One way to do that would be Hundley. Another way would have been to go to AB.

I'm at least consistent. I've been saying I'm absolutely pro AB over Huntley for the remainder of this season. Believe he should've been out there earlier.

There’s only so much you can do though. Can’t have quality backup options everywhere. Would hazard a guess that AB starting over Huntley would probably have not resulted in any more wins. We were likely dead in the water once Lamar went down regardless of who was at the helm.

 

[UPennChem]

I mean OK. I don't consider replacing Huntley with AB a "meaningful attempt to help the team". Same for signing literally anybody off the street. It's just replacing one QB who's not getting it done with another, and hoping the latter sucks a little less than the former. And while I think AB has more upside, we saw that he had problems not throwing the ball to the other team.

That's ok, you and @Simba and I ALL agree that when Lamar went down the season was over. I however still believe you would have put out a much better product for your fans, and increased your chance of winning by putting AB out there.

Maybe that's wrong. Maybe it would have been right. Simba disagrees. You seem like in your opinion it's all a wash.

All I can tell you is there's a game Sunday night and if the Ravens trot Huntley out there, I'd be very unhappy

 

[OURavensFan]

That's ok, you and @Simba and I ALL agree that when Lamar went down the season was over. I however still believe you would have put out a much better product for your fans, and increased your chance of winning by putting AB out there.

Maybe that's wrong. Maybe it would have been right. Simba disagrees. You seem like in your opinion it's all a wash.

All I can tell you is there's a game Sunday night and if the Ravens trot Huntley out there, I'd be very unhappy

Brown was a turnover machine and handed the game away almost immediately. And I know people say he settled in but there were two more near pick sixes in the second half. With our defense and run game it’s reckless to go with Brown

 

[RavensMania]

OK, but last year he had Andrews, Bateman, and Hollywood. Problem was none of them could stay healthy enough to be on the field together, which includes Lamar.
If you can't win with that group, you're not winning with barely any groups. It's not practical from a roster construction standpoint to have much better weapons that that.

Plus, I struggle with this aspect of "Lamar was an MVP with no weapons", but now suddenly can't function as a high level QB without them. So what's changed in those 3-4 years to make that the case?

offensive line was a major issue last season

 

[Simba]

That's ok, you and @Simba and I ALL agree that when Lamar went down the season was over. I however still believe you would have put out a much better product for your fans, and increased your chance of winning by putting AB out there.

Maybe that's wrong. Maybe it would have been right. Simba disagrees. You seem like in your opinion it's all a wash.

All I can tell you is there's a game Sunday night and if the Ravens trot Huntley out there, I'd be very unhappy

Wouldn't be so sure of that. Lots of reporters said that there was a night and day difference between Huntley and Brown in camp. Sure, Brown has shown some improvements from that time per reports, but doesn't mean he's a solution right now. It's more of a pick your poison type of thing. You have Huntley has basically no arm strength, but has shown in the past to be in control of the offense. And then you have Brown who has the better arm but very questionable decision making and erratic accuracy.

Me personally, I'd go Brown this Sunday if the choice was mine, but I also don't think going with one over the other has any major benefit at this point.

 

[UPennChem]

Brown was a turnover machine and handed the game away almost immediately. And I know people say he settled in but there were two more near pick sixes in the second half. With our defense and run game it’s reckless to go with Brown

Look my guy, that's the argument against. I can't take that away from you. Those things did happen. That being said, I believe his ability to actually push the ball down field will help us to score some more points. If he can settle down a bit after that first game, get more first team reps, film etc he may be able to pull it out.

 

[BoredMarine13]

Anyone else remember that time Rivers played on a torn MCL and ACL in the playoffs. Fun times, different game now. Although I do wonder if Lamar had signed a contract already if he would be out there Sunday