Lamar Jackson

[purplepittabread88]

Honestly I don't buy the owner collusion stuff at all. If a bottom team actually wanted Lamar, they would fork it up.

the game theory doesn't add up. bad teams would fold for their own benefit.

 

[SaltyDog]

I don't blame a guy for trying to get what he feels he deserves. I'll always support the players in that regard. The issue here though is that literally no one is willing to give him what he wants. So where do you draw the line? Do you continue to just hope one of those offers come in, or do you take the fuck ton of money you've been offered already?

At the end of the day, this is proof that the Ravens had a really good pulse on the market while Lamar and his team did not, which is tied almost exclusively to his lack of agent.

It has to be getting to a point of humiliation for him. How does he give in and save face at the same time? It’s really getting to the point of surreal. It’s fugly man.

 

[RaineV1]

Why would they pay him fast when they have him under control for $32M this year?
He doesn't have the balls to sit out. And if he manages to find them, its not like fans are exactly going to be sympathetic to a pro-athlete refusing to play for $32M.

You think guys making $10/hour are going to be like "yeah Lamar, hold out for that shit"... lol. Not a chance in hell. He'll get eviscerated by the public for that. Especially after turning down $133M fully gtd too.

And what's clear now is that Lamar very, very, very much cares about his perception.

You're probably right but I really dislike that mentality. The relationship between athletes and team owners and their league is pretty similar to the average worker and their corporation. For every dollar Mahomes and other top end players get the owners and Goodell are getting far, far more despite the player being the one that creates that money.

Also we shouldn't put athletes on the same level of rich or even close to the level of rich as the owners. And we shouldn't see their negotiations as just rich people arguing. Even if Lamar got everything he wanted he would still be closer to being broke than he ever will to having Biscotti's level of money and influence. There's a gigantic difference between even the richest player and the poorest owner.

 

[RaineV1]

I don't blame a guy for trying to get what he feels he deserves. I'll always support the players in that regard. The issue here though is that literally no one is willing to give him what he wants. So where do you draw the line? Do you continue to just hope one of those offers come in, or do you take the fuck ton of money you've been offered already?

At the end of the day, this is proof that the Ravens had a really good pulse on the market while Lamar and his team did not, which is tied almost exclusively to his lack of agent.

I disagree. If Lamar was just a free agent he likely would get some team giving him very close to what he wants. It's more about having to do a contract the Ravens won't match and two first round picks on top of that.

 

[Simba]

I disagree. If Lamar was just a free agent he likely would get some team giving him very close to what he wants. It's more about having to do a contract the Ravens won't match and two first round picks on top of that.

But he’s still 2 years away from that and there’s some major risk that he won’t get that huge deal at all if he goes that route. Someone would almost surely give him the money today, but if he goes out there and gets hurt again or puts together a couple of iffy years, he shot himself in the foot.

Guy could have signed for a bag a year or two ago. His contract would have had to be redone in another year or two. He can’t keep waiting.

He played this off-season like the big offer was going to come elsewhere and force the Ravens to match or move on. So far, the only loser here is Lamar. And he knows that. That’s why his team is making the moves they are now. They were expecting a bidding war for his services, and they have none. They completely misplayed the market and are getting into damage control levels.

 

[Deebo813]

Problem is his feelings are wrong, he’s over valuing himself and someone needs to get him straight. The longer he waits the more money he is losing. For me it’s not a matter of being mad about him making the money or maybe leaving, it’s about him fkn up the team dragging this thing out.

I cant really say he is overvaluing himself till later on.. when flacco got his contract, he 100% deserved that mf but after like 2-3yrs, he was a bit overpaid

 

[Deebo813]

I don't blame a guy for trying to get what he feels he deserves. I'll always support the players in that regard. The issue here though is that literally no one is willing to give him what he wants. So where do you draw the line? Do you continue to just hope one of those offers come in, or do you take the fuck ton of money you've been offered already?

At the end of the day, this is proof that the Ravens had a really good pulse on the market while Lamar and his team did not, which is tied almost exclusively to his lack of agent.

Im sure he knew but he just believes he is worth more thats all.. i dnt think lamar is that dumb to not know the market value out there.. or maybe he did but was hoping to get better offers from the desperate teams

 

[JAAM]

I cant really say he is overvaluing himself till later on.. when flacco got his contract, he 100% deserved that mf but after like 2-3yrs, he was a bit overpaid

Uh oh.. you’re saying this to the guy that thinks Flacco is still worth that

 

[SaltyDog]

I cant really say he is overvaluing himself till later on.. when flacco got his contract, he 100% deserved that mf but after like 2-3yrs, he was a bit overpaid

Yeah Flacco negotiated (through his agent I might add) from a position of strength. Lamar is negotiating from a weakened position. I still believe that any agent worth his salt would have convinced him to take a top 5 deal and be happy, before 2022 season.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You're probably right but I really dislike that mentality. The relationship between athletes and team owners and their league is pretty similar to the average worker and their corporation. For every dollar Mahomes and other top end players get the owners and Goodell are getting far, far more despite the player being the one that creates that money.

Also we shouldn't put athletes on the same level of rich or even close to the level of rich as the owners. And we shouldn't see their negotiations as just rich people arguing. Even if Lamar got everything he wanted he would still be closer to being broke than he ever will to having Biscotti's level of money and influence. There's a gigantic difference between even the richest player and the poorest owner.

I agree. Though from the mindset of somebody who lives paycheck to paycheck, its radically different. Its not a linear scale.
Lamar might be closer to poverty than he is to Steve, however, they basically both have the same purchasing power. Lamar can't buy an NFL franchise on his own, but he can buy many houses, many cars, set up generations of his family with great wealth (to the point where they will never have to work again), do luxurious vacations, etc.
The difference between the Billionaire and somebody like Lamar isn't $. It's Power. That's the difference. It's not about the $ they spend, because as any liberal will tell you, they think the biggest problem is that Billionaires hoard all the $, instead of spending it.
Its about power and influence more than $.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Im sure he knew but he just believes he is worth more thats all.. i dnt think lamar is that dumb to not know the market value out there.. or maybe he did but was hoping to get better offers from the desperate teams

I think Lamar is dumb for not realizing that being last to the party isn't what's best for his lifetime earnings. Its about being first to the party.
Sooner you sign the extension, more $ you make earlier = quicker you get to the next contract.
The irony of this whole thing is that Lamar wants max guaranteed $ because he realizes careers may not last, while simultaneously voluntarily playing for less $ early in his career. That doesn't pass any logical financial concept.

Two years ago, both sides should have walked up to each other, simultaneously, and said "give me $50K more than the Josh Allen deal", and been done with it. Neither side did it. And today, one party is making out significantly better than the other because of that failure.

 

[Tank]

It has to be getting to a point of humiliation for him. How does he give in and save face at the same time? It’s really getting to the point of surreal. It’s fugly man.

We say "him", but I fully believe he bought into some BS that someone else has sold him from the beginning. Of course he has had to go along with it, but someone has given him really bad advice, I think before any NFLPA involement.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree. If Lamar was just a free agent he likely would get some team giving him very close to what he wants. It's more about having to do a contract the Ravens won't match and two first round picks on top of that.

Don't think they care about the picks.

The matching the deal is the problem, but if other teams were willing to give him what he wants, they'd have already done so. They could have had all the info they needed nearly a week ago.

Of course the million dollar question is... what does Lamar want? Does he want a fully gtd deal for 5 years like Watson, or does he just want more gtd $ than Watson? If he wants either one of those things, I think there are precisely zero NFL teams that would write him an offer on either. MAYBE one team would go the Mahomes route, which is "we'll give you $235M, but its on like an 8-10 year deal". And Lamar wouldn't sign that, nor should he.

If his market is lower than that, he'd have suitors. But two first round picks aren't swaying anybody. They give up single first rounders for mid-tier WRs in some cases these days. Carson Wentz went for a first and a third like two years ago.

It's not the picks. It's the $. And currently, the Ravens control over the $.

 

[Tank]

I cant really say he is overvaluing himself till later on.. when flacco got his contract, he 100% deserved that mf but after like 2-3yrs, he was a bit overpaid

Vet contracts are generally valued on what you've accomplished in the recent past. Unfortunately for Lamar that includes missing the most important parts of the last 2 seasons. It seems that no one other than the Ravens are willing to pay up at this point.

 

[SaltyDog]

We say "him", but I fully believe he bought into some BS that someone else has sold him from the beginning. Of course he has had to go along with it, but someone has given him really bad advice, I think before any NFLPA involement.

It always circles back to him not hiring an agent long ago. An agent would always have HIS best interest as a priority. The NFLPA has ALL players as a priority. Usually bad advice comes from people who don’t have your best interest front and center.

 

[Tank]

It always circles back to him not hiring an agent long ago. An agent would always have HIS best interest as a priority. The NFLPA has ALL players as a priority. Usually bad advice comes from people who don’t have your best interest front and center.

Or from someone who has no idea of what they are talking about.

 

[Goldzglove21]

The Ravens drafted Lamar and put him into a position to excel. They built and entire offense around him and called plays that maximized his unique skillset. Lamar to his credit, put in a ton of hard work and won a unanimous MVP for being the most electric player in all of football that season. What Lamar hasn't done is do the same for himself from a business perspective. An agent would have negotiated a deal after year 3 so that he was making $30M+ starting last year and he would be making about the same as what he is this year. Lamar would have ALREADY made $20M-$30M more in his career than he has done thus far. An agent would have had him better sponsorships by now. How did not he not have a $100M shoe deal from Nike or Under Armour following his MVP season? Lamar could have already had way more money than he is fighting for now. Lamar performed well enough on the field to get his money, but there is a reason why players hire agents.

From a contract perspective the Ravens have played their hands perfectly this season, but they screwed up to some extent. They could have given him $35M a year a couple years ago on a 5-year deal and not needed to get anywhere close to guaranteeing 100% of the deal. Then Watson, who Lamar likely feels is not the same caliber of a quarterback as him, with assault allegations swarming, gets the kind of deal that resets the QB market. Lamar as his own agent goes, "If someone will give that deal to THAT guy, they will give it to me". IF, Lamar was a free agent to start this offseason season and there was no draft capital tied to Lamar, a team would have given him a contract in excess of what the Ravens have offered in all likelihood. Lamar has overplayed his hand to this point, but all he has to do now is stay the course and keep betting on himself.

Play this season at $33M and stay healthy. Be in the same position next season and watch as the Ravens do the exact same thing. Except by then Joey B, Herbert and Hurts will likely have signed extensions. Then just wait for a team who prepared for Lamar to be available to make an offer. Or... Lamar can go back to the Ravens and ask for a 3 year, $138M guaranteed (Lamars holding out netted him more money, he gets a fully guaranteed deal and the Ravens get their QB) contract now. Be 29 years old as a true free agent and go test the market without teams having to worry about the Ravens matching an offer or having to give up a pair of first rounders. Lamar has painted himself in a corner where he can't take the 3-year guaranteed deal reported in the media, he can't not get a fully guaranteed deal, he can't hire an agent at this point and he can't use the media to force his way out of Baltimore. Lamar allowed all of those things to happen because he wanted to save the 3% or whatever it is that an agent would have charged him. Lamar needs to stop having beef with the Ravens (if true) and find a deal that makes him look like he got a stronger deal than he should given the limited leverage that he had this offseason. Then.... the guy should hire an agent.

 

[SaltyDog]

The Ravens drafted Lamar and put him into a position to excel. They built and entire offense around him and called plays that maximized his unique skillset. Lamar to his credit, put in a ton of hard work and won a unanimous MVP for being the most electric player in all of football that season. What Lamar hasn't done is do the same for himself from a business perspective. An agent would have negotiated a deal after year 3 so that he was making $30M+ starting last year and he would be making about the same as what he is this year. Lamar would have ALREADY made $20M-$30M more in his career than he has done thus far. An agent would have had him better sponsorships by now. How did not he not have a $100M shoe deal from Nike or Under Armour following his MVP season? Lamar could have already had way more money than he is fighting for now. Lamar performed well enough on the field to get his money, but there is a reason why players hire agents.

From a contract perspective the Ravens have played their hands perfectly this season, but they screwed up to some extent. They could have given him $35M a year a couple years ago on a 5-year deal and not needed to get anywhere close to guaranteeing 100% of the deal. Then Watson, who Lamar likely feels is not the same caliber of a quarterback as him, with assault allegations swarming, gets the kind of deal that resets the QB market. Lamar as his own agent goes, "If someone will give that deal to THAT guy, they will give it to me". IF, Lamar was a free agent to start this offseason season and there was no draft capital tied to Lamar, a team would have given him a contract in excess of what the Ravens have offered in all likelihood. Lamar has overplayed his hand to this point, but all he has to do now is stay the course and keep betting on himself.

Play this season at $33M and stay healthy. Be in the same position next season and watch as the Ravens do the exact same thing. Except by then Joey B, Herbert and Hurts will likely have signed extensions. Then just wait for a team who prepared for Lamar to be available to make an offer. Or... Lamar can go back to the Ravens and ask for a 3 year, $138M guaranteed (Lamars holding out netted him more money, he gets a fully guaranteed deal and the Ravens get their QB) contract now. Be 29 years old as a true free agent and go test the market without teams having to worry about the Ravens matching an offer or having to give up a pair of first rounders. Lamar has painted himself in a corner where he can't take the 3-year guaranteed deal reported in the media, he can't not get a fully guaranteed deal, he can't hire an agent at this point and he can't use the media to force his way out of Baltimore. Lamar allowed all of those things to happen because he wanted to save the 3% or whatever it is that an agent would have charged him. Lamar needs to stop having beef with the Ravens (if true) and find a deal that makes him look like he got a stronger deal than he should given the limited leverage that he had this offseason. Then.... the guy should hire an agent.

Welcome! Agree with all you said here.

Negotiations 101 - Never negotiate from a point of weakness. After 2020 he was in a position of strength. Winning the MVP in 19 and having a fairly solid year in 20, during the Covid mess. He should have pushed for a restructure or a new deal then. Now, after missing significant playing time over the past two years, his position is weakened. Play on the tag, have a great year, and stay healthy. His stock will rise and he will get paid. And yes, hire an agent please.

 

[Deebo813]

I think Lamar is dumb for not realizing that being last to the party isn't what's best for his lifetime earnings. Its about being first to the party.
Sooner you sign the extension, more $ you make earlier = quicker you get to the next contract.
The irony of this whole thing is that Lamar wants max guaranteed $ because he realizes careers may not last, while simultaneously voluntarily playing for less $ early in his career. That doesn't pass any logical financial concept.

Two years ago, both sides should have walked up to each other, simultaneously, and said "give me $50K more than the Josh Allen deal", and been done with it. Neither side did it. And today, one party is making out significantly better than the other because of that failure.

Yea you got a point here

 

[UPennChem]

Where the fuck is this interview?