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Lamar Jackson

Injuries and comp % are fair. The other 2 are just obviously not comparable with a Greg Roman offense and the crazy injuries that squandered those seasons.
other than completion percentage... those are all counting stats
Even if you ignore the counting stats , he is bracketed by Wentz and Heinicke for completion % last year. Not keeping good company. And Not saying we can’t be really successful with him at QB, but anyone being objective can see his play has not been up to par with the best QBs in the league. That’s my biggest issue with paying him well above the best in the league
 
Even if you ignore the counting stats , he is bracketed by Wentz and Heinicke for completion % last year. Not keeping good company. And Not saying we can’t be really successful with him at QB, but anyone being objective can see his play has not been up to par with the best QBs in the league. That’s my biggest issue with paying him well above the best in the league
All the more reason that, while I don't think there's much of a chance of Lamar signing an extension here after 2023 (assuming he plays this year), I also think him playing on the tag makes all the sense in the world.

Paying for past success has a lot of downsides, but I don't really want to pay somebody the kind of $ he wants without the playoff success to show for it. People can blame that lack of playoff success on a thousand other people besides him, but end of day, any objective person can see he shares blame in that lack of success. Whether its not performing in the biggest spots, or not being on the field in the biggest spots, its a thing.

And so as we head into 2023, excuse season is pretty much coming to an end. He's got Odell, he's got a first round WR, will likely get another draft pick, and an All-World TE. He'll probably have a running game, a solid Oline, and, at minimum, an above average defense most likely. And most importantly, he'll have a new OC who has proven success in multiple places of doing well.

It's the perfect season to say to Lamar "OK we need to see the playoff success" before we get married. And if it doesn't happen, for whatever reason, it probably doesn't seem logical to pay up.
 
other than completion percentage... those are all counting stats
While I would not argue the conclusion, that the way Lamar has played the past 2 years is the reason no one is offering him close to what he wants, I would agree that using data that way is very dishonest. There are more honest assessments such as looking at yards per game or INT % or fumble % or just the turnovers in general (especially 4th quarter turnovers last year) to make a case for a decline in play combined with a troubling injury history.

That is not a difficult argument to form but when you do it in the way that graphic does you are making the argument look more dishonest than it actually is. The honest statistics tell of a regression to average QB play (10-20 range) with a troubling injury history. There is no need to try and fudge the numbers to make him look like a bottom 10 QB when the honest argument is fine enough.
 
Lamar started out fine these last 2 years before injuries, including his, took over.

Like @rmcjacket23 said, given where the Ravens will be at the beginning of the year after the draft, new oc, Odell, and our defense, he's going to have to produce.

Ideally in the playoffs more than anything.
 
I'm not sure about that. Do you know how these void years work? I don't at all. I think it's actually a 4 year deal in the eyes of compensatory picks???
Void years are essentially dummy years and after this year Obj becomes an unrestricted fa and counts toward the comp pick formula.
I'm not sure though what the rules are when it comes to franchise tags and void years
 
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Even if you ignore the counting stats , he is bracketed by Wentz and Heinicke for completion % last year. Not keeping good company. And Not saying we can’t be really successful with him at QB, but anyone being objective can see his play has not been up to par with the best QBs in the league. That’s my biggest issue with paying him well above the best in the league
There's always the hope that LJ will make the next step, gain some consistency and show some maturation in his passing game, but that's all just hope right now because up until this point that hasn't happened. And yes, then there's also the injuries and lengthy recoveries.
It's all really frustrating because his passing and mechanics really improved coming into 2020, but it seems like he's actually regressed there since.
 
Void years are essentially dummy years and after this year Obj becomes an unrestrained fa and counts toward the comp pick formula.
I'm not sure though what the rules are when it comes to franchise tags and void years
I've not seen anything definitive, but my understanding based on this is that void years do NOT impact the comp pick formula. The player is deemed to be a UFA after the season.

 
I've not seen anything definitive, but my understanding based on this is that void years do NOT impact the comp pick formula. The player is deemed to be a UFA after the season.

Nick Korte often tweets about the rules of compensatory picks. That's were i got it from.
Every contract with void years qualifies as cfa as long as it's the original contract.
But if it's a shortened, renegotiated contract it's not eligible.
 
Lamar started out fine these last 2 years before injuries, including his, took over.

Like @rmcjacket23 said, given where the Ravens will be at the beginning of the year after the draft, new oc, Odell, and our defense, he's going to have to produce.

Ideally in the playoffs more than anything.

yeah like the first half of 2021 and beginning of 2022 he looked like an MVP candidate... just didnt retain that level of play the whole season for various reasons (poor form, injuries, injuries to his supporting cast)
 
yeah like the first half of 2021 and beginning of 2022 he looked like an MVP candidate... just didnt retain that level of play the whole season for various reasons (poor form, injuries, injuries to his supporting cast)

I would say he was an MVP candidate, like top 2-3, through the first 3 games of 2022 but not in 2021. In 2021 he was playing top 10 ball, borderline top 5, for stretches of it but I do not think there was a point where he would have been considered one of the top 4 candidates for MVP. A lot of that I would put on injuries to the supporting cast, its pretty bad to lose your entire RB room before the season starts, but I do not think there was a point where he was a favorite for MVP or even to finish top 4.

The one unfortunate thing about 2021 is all the good teams were in the second half of the schedule so as the injuries piled up it just made the second half of that schedule more and more impossible to do well on.
 
I would say he was an MVP candidate, like top 2-3, through the first 3 games of 2022 but not in 2021. In 2021 he was playing top 10 ball, borderline top 5, for stretches of it but I do not think there was a point where he would have been considered one of the top 4 candidates for MVP. A lot of that I would put on injuries to the supporting cast, its pretty bad to lose your entire RB room before the season starts, but I do not think there was a point where he was a favorite for MVP or even to finish top 4.

The one unfortunate thing about 2021 is all the good teams were in the second half of the schedule so as the injuries piled up it just made the second half of that schedule more and more impossible to do well on.

there were frequent debates on sports media channels about whether Lamar was gonna be MVP again in 2021
especially after the Colts game (and then the vikings game)

part of the argument being made was that he had his OL and RBs wiped out and was still carrying the team to crazy yard and point tallies

basically until that dolphins game...
 
I would say he was an MVP candidate, like top 2-3, through the first 3 games of 2022 but not in 2021. In 2021 he was playing top 10 ball, borderline top 5, for stretches of it but I do not think there was a point where he would have been considered one of the top 4 candidates for MVP. A lot of that I would put on injuries to the supporting cast, its pretty bad to lose your entire RB room before the season starts, but I do not think there was a point where he was a favorite for MVP or even to finish top 4.

The one unfortunate thing about 2021 is all the good teams were in the second half of the schedule so as the injuries piled up it just made the second half of that schedule more and more impossible to do well on.
2021 Lamar was one of the primary mvp favorites up until the Miami game
 
I'll McJacket Ross with McJacket rather than me being his Mcjacket... lol
other than completion percentage... those are all counting stats
Uh-one and uh-two and uh-three and uh-four...

Seriously. Counting stats?! Every worry that anyone ever had about drafting a mobile QB and duribility has literally come true with Lamar. He hasn't completed two seasons - maybe one of those so as not to "damage" his long term value. Nevertheless, he's almost made of glass, so "counting stats" are out! None of it counts in a contract year when you haven't finished a year in two seasons. He's a high upside signing. No more or less than the high upside QB he was drafted to be. He's back in the "proving stats" realm... and other teams see that which is why no team is giving him what he wants - even us.

All the more reason that, while I don't think there's much of a chance of Lamar signing an extension here after 2023 (assuming he plays this year), I also think him playing on the tag makes all the sense in the world.

Paying for past success has a lot of downsides, but I don't really want to pay somebody the kind of $ he wants without the playoff success to show for it. People can blame that lack of playoff success on a thousand other people besides him, but end of day, any objective person can see he shares blame in that lack of success. Whether its not performing in the biggest spots, or not being on the field in the biggest spots, its a thing.

And so as we head into 2023, excuse season is pretty much coming to an end. He's got Odell, he's got a first round WR, will likely get another draft pick, and an All-World TE. He'll probably have a running game, a solid Oline, and, at minimum, an above average defense most likely. And most importantly, he'll have a new OC who has proven success in multiple places of doing well.

It's the perfect season to say to Lamar "OK we need to see the playoff success" before we get married. And if it doesn't happen, for whatever reason, it probably doesn't seem logical to pay up.

God I hate agreeing with you, but this is right on. Lamar is going to have to prove it. The Ravens called him and upped the pot with Odell. He has his plate set. Anything short of him showing he is elite AND playing a full season with or without injury hurts his cause. Put up or shut up.
 
there were frequent debates on sports media channels about whether Lamar was gonna be MVP again in 2021
especially after the Colts game (and then the vikings game)

part of the argument being made was that he had his OL and RBs wiped out and was still carrying the team to crazy yard and point tallies

basically until that dolphins game...
I mean I never saw anyone at any point say he was MVP. I saw them argue he should be in the conversation to be MVP which considering the record made sense (they were beating up on the dregs after all) and considering "in the conversation" is usually something they argue about for any of the top 8-9 guys I would say such a topic was warranted.

However arguing someone should be in the conversation is not the same thing as being a serious MVP candidate. For example after the first month of the year, last year, there were 3 MVP candidates: Mahomes, Hurts, and Allen. However, at multiple points through the year their were segments arguing that the following should be in the "conversation": Geno Smith, Tua, Justin Jefferson, Joe Burrow, and Justin Herbert, just to name a few, as there were others. These were all people who whenever they would have a good game, which was often, the national media would have a segment about whether they should be in the MVP conversation and then argue why they should be. However, none of them truly were because when push came to shove there were 3 real candidates for MVP after the first month.

The reason that I think Lamar is happy to have OBJ, is that he has realized the same thing that everyone on here has, and a thing that the national media seems unwilling to accept: nobody is going to meet Lamar's demands so he needs to prove himself on the tag. What that means is having a complete year where he looks like a top 10 QB and making it through that year relatively uninjured, at least playing the last few games. His hope is that if he can do that maybe someone gives him the money he wants. I do not think he will get the guarantees he wants from anyone but maybe someone gives him more if he shows he can play an entire season at a top 10 level, instead of for short spurts at a top 3-5 level, and he can remain healthy.
 
I mean I never saw anyone at any point say he was MVP. I saw them argue he should be in the conversation to be MVP which considering the record made sense (they were beating up on the dregs after all) and considering "in the conversation" is usually something they argue about for any of the top 8-9 guys I would say such a topic was warranted.

However arguing someone should be in the conversation is not the same thing as being a serious MVP candidate. For example after the first month of the year, last year, there were 3 MVP candidates: Mahomes, Hurts, and Allen. However, at multiple points through the year their were segments arguing that the following should be in the "conversation": Geno Smith, Tua, Justin Jefferson, Joe Burrow, and Justin Herbert, just to name a few, as there were others. These were all people who whenever they would have a good game, which was often, the national media would have a segment about whether they should be in the MVP conversation and then argue why they should be. However, none of them truly were because when push came to shove there were 3 real candidates for MVP after the first month.

The reason that I think Lamar is happy to have OBJ, is that he has realized the same thing that everyone on here has, and a thing that the national media seems unwilling to accept: nobody is going to meet Lamar's demands so he needs to prove himself on the tag. What that means is having a complete year where he looks like a top 10 QB and making it through that year relatively uninjured, at least playing the last few games. His hope is that if he can do that maybe someone gives him the money he wants. I do not think he will get the guarantees he wants from anyone but maybe someone gives him more if he shows he can play an entire season at a top 10 level, instead of for short spurts at a top 3-5 level, and he can remain healthy.
Well and I still think there's a decent chance he signs an extension before the deadline. Once he gets to July and realizes his value isn't going to be reached by anybody, he'll just have to make that decision.

While I think the tag is good for both sides in some ways, ultimately, the Ravens have made him very lucrative offers, of which I'm sure at least one or maybe all of them are still on the table for him to sign whenever he chooses. So its not like they really think he has to totally "prove himself" entirely. He just has to prove himself in the context of getting offers he wants, because he hasn't done enough of that yet.
 
Well and I still think there's a decent chance he signs an extension before the deadline. Once he gets to July and realizes his value isn't going to be reached by anybody, he'll just have to make that decision.

While I think the tag is good for both sides in some ways, ultimately, the Ravens have made him very lucrative offers, of which I'm sure at least one or maybe all of them are still on the table for him to sign whenever he chooses. So its not like they really think he has to totally "prove himself" entirely. He just has to prove himself in the context of getting offers he wants, because he hasn't done enough of that yet.
The Ravens have given him fair offers. screw him if he thinks he's all goody and shit
 
I thought Atlanta was good with Desmond Riddler? Why they meeting with Will Levis if they aren't satisfied with Riddler? Why not make a play for Lamar?
 
The reason that I think Lamar is happy to have OBJ, is that he has realized the same thing that everyone on here has, and a thing that the national media seems unwilling to accept: nobody is going to meet Lamar's demands so he needs to prove himself on the tag. What that means is having a complete year where he looks like a top 10 QB and making it through that year relatively uninjured, at least playing the last few games. His hope is that if he can do that maybe someone gives him the money he wants. I do not think he will get the guarantees he wants from anyone but maybe someone gives him more if he shows he can play an entire season at a top 10 level, instead of for short spurts at a top 3-5 level, and he can remain healthy.
It would be funny if we were all misreading this and Lamar really doesn’t want to come back regardless of OBJ. He was just leverage and helping his boy get top dollar
 
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