The Lamar, The Defence and The Special Teams

[redrum52]

Nah, something like 4/40 but still...

Saints cap is nasty work

 

[rossihunter2]

But there's players every single year you could say this about.

Off the top of my head, I'm sure the Ravens would have loved to keep guys like Mosley, Za'darius Smith, Kelechi Osemele.

The reality of a hard cap is you're going to lose guys you don't want to. It's just the unfortunate reality.

i specifically said at competitive top of the market deal

we let ZDS (and Judon) go because we werent willing to pay them top of the market money because they werent top of the market guys
we paid Yanda instead of KO
Mosley we did try to keep but the Jets offered crazy money that we couldnt compete with which will not happen this time because we will have franchise tagged Madubuike

the reality of the cap is that you lose guys you dont want to but can live without
the reality of the cap is that you keep superstars regardless of your current cap position (unless your the saints)

 

[rossihunter2]

I am curious if this becomes the new norm or not because it's left teams like the Saints in a perpetual state of mediocrity.

that's more long-term mismanagement vs use of void years

you can sustainably go cash over cap fairly long-term with a willing owner as long as you are getting returns on your big signings and you hit on draft picks

you may occasionally have to take a "fallow" year if you have guys getting older and play-level is going down to reset the cap at that point but unless you're kicking ridiculous amounts of dead cap down the road then you can pretty sustainably use void years as long as you do it responsibly

the problem the saints have is that they refuse to go into a rebuild and are having to add max void years to basically every deal which makes the problem worse

 

[rossihunter2]

This is why I'd pay him. Ascending player and has each year he's played for us. It's not like this year is really a shock considering the path he's been on. Everyone who's played around him spoke on the talent and what's they've seen in practice. Now he's just doing it consistently. And he's been one of our healthiest guys.

not a shock at all for anyone who watched the first 3 years of tape
this talent has always been there and always flashed...

this year he got to be the guy on passing downs (instead of calais) and he was rewarded with the counting stats

 

[rossihunter2]

I still think none of this actually matters.

We've been desperate to find a guy like Madubuike for almost a decade, ever since Haloti days. EDC will do everything he can to keep him. The only obstacle will be another team with the ridiculous offer, much like what the Jets gave to CJ Mosley at the time.

And for a DT with 13 sacks on the year, there's bound to be more than one team willing to outprice the Ravens.

and the ridiculous offer only matters if we dont tag him...

 

[allblackraven]

View attachment 5875


Saints cap is nasty work

I didn't believe that's true, so went and rechecked Spotrac and Over the cap. They both say 2021 extension was 4/40. There's nothing in voidable years but small prorated bonuses.

Schefter must have been drunk or something.

 

[redrum52]

I didn't believe that's true, so went and rechecked Spotrac and Over the cap. They both say 2021 extension was 4/40. There's nothing in voidable years but small prorated bonuses.

Schefter must have been drunk or something.

My bad then. I just remembered hearing about that years ago and thought they were out their minds.

 

[RavensMania]

Yes, I have been trying to get that point across- I don't expect every free agent to be back and I wouldn't even if the Ravens had monstrous amounts of cap space. That's the nature of football and free agency- players come and go.

With that said, you still have to replace those players with someone and it becomes a much taller task when you commit massive cap to a singular player like Madibuike when you're already incredibly tight.

I just checked the Ravens projected cap and it's currently ~$6M with the rule of 51. I'm not sure if that accounts for Bowser's roll over and it doesn't account for him being cut. I had always thought the Ravens cap was going to be around $13M or so to start.

Anyway... I never expected the Ravens to go out and make another Marcus Williams tier signing, but I think this makes even an OBJ or even Clowney tier signings a little difficult. As you said, I think you're looking at more Maulet and Simpson level signings. Maulet has been fantastic given expectations, but Simpson is one you'd never be upset to upgrade. If every free agent was replaced by a Simpson level player, the Ravens would be in a lot of trouble.

But yeah, going to come down to how well the Ravens draft and bargain hunt.

OTC has the Ravens 2024 cap space rule of 51 at 13.6m

 

[RavensMania]

"Lamar Jackson is a poor man's version of Taysom Hill".
- Brady Poppinga

remember when Saints fans thought Taysom Hill was better than Lamar. That didn't last long.

 

[ndub]

remember when Saints fans thought Taysom Hill was better than Lamar. That didn't last long.

Taysom couldn't hold Lamar's jockstrap

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Leaves them in a state of mediocrity only because they don't have a good QB. They prefer to keep trying to rehab veterans as opposed to going all-in on a draft replacement.
Eagles have been using void years plenty for many years, and they typically have an exceptional roster.

I had the same question about long term usage. Based on the Pierce extension, where they added one more void year, doesn't appear we're terrified to use it. Just depends on scope.

For a JM type deal, I don't know that we'll stretch it out too far. But for most teams, the ability to keep somebody like Lamar's cap hit relatively realistic is pretty much entirely dependent on the usage of void years.

Also recognizing that by the time JM gets super expensive, some of the guys who are expensive today won't be around. Namely, Stanley, perhaps Marlon and Andrews. Now obviously there's no extensions to be given out, but some of the large contracts on the books for '24 won't be around in '25, '26, when JM would actually become expensive.

Bingo. We keep madubuike and I’m expecting stanley gone within 2 years and marlo either traded or extended for a “finish out your prime here” kinda deal that’s lighter on the cap, and there’s the offset, those guys are replaced with younger cheaper talent and round and round we go, and then we likely have a similar situation with those guys whether we keep madubuike or not.

 

[Willbacker]

and the ridiculous offer only matters if we dont tag him...

Depends on whether we go exclusive tag. We can definitely be out bid on the non exclusive. Either or he needs to be tagged and at worst be traded for better than a 3rd rd comp.

 

[Grim]

I still think none of this actually matters.

We've been desperate to find a guy like Madubuike for almost a decade, ever since Haloti days. EDC will do everything he can to keep him. The only obstacle will be another team with the ridiculous offer, much like what the Jets gave to CJ Mosley at the time.

And for a DT with 13 sacks on the year, there's bound to be more than one team willing to outprice the Ravens.

I mean it all does matter but the premise is more that it isn’t about money. I don’t think money will be why we don’t re-sign him if we don’t. I actually think we will bring him back in some capacity. I don’t know what that looks like, whether it’s a long term deal or a tag, but I think he’s more likely to stick around than leave. I think if we let him go to FA he is gone.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Depends on whether we go exclusive tag. We can definitely be out bid on the non exclusive. Either or he needs to be tagged and at worst be traded for better than a 3rd rd comp.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe teams use the exclusive franchise tag on non-QBs often, if ever. It's not really a thing.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean it all does matter but the premise is more that it isn’t about money. I don’t think money will be why we don’t re-sign him if we don’t. I actually think we will bring him back in some capacity. I don’t know what that looks like, whether it’s a long term deal or a tag, but I think he’s more likely to stick around than leave. I think if we let him go to FA he is gone.

The franchise tag is the problem. Assuming Mads value on the open market is in the range of what we think it is, and not like Aaron Donald, $30M AAV level, I don't think the Ravens will necessarily bulk at paying him market value.

The issue is that it's extremely difficult to carry him at a ~$20M cap hit next year. With an extension, his number would be closer to $10M than it would be to $20M.

The only question is whether the Ravens value the cap flexibility enough that they'll opt not to tag him, and risk losing him, in exchange for basically matching market-value contracts. I think they'll end up tagging him, and then basically doing a full-court press to get an extension signed as soon as possible.

 

[Willbacker]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe teams use the exclusive franchise tag on non-QBs often, if ever. It's not really a thing.

Im sure you're right. Forgot you can still get 2 1sts with a non exclusive.

 

[RavensMania]

Depends on whether we go exclusive tag. We can definitely be out bid on the non exclusive. Either or he needs to be tagged and at worst be traded for better than a 3rd rd comp.

it's rare that players get the exclusive tag outside of QBs. No one wants to give up 2 first round picks, so if we tag BK we will be tagging him using the non exclusive franchise tag.

@rmcjacket23 did see your comment until I already posted it, but it's true non QBs don't get the exclusive tag. Not sure it's ever been done.

 

[rossihunter2]

Depends on whether we go exclusive tag. We can definitely be out bid on the non exclusive. Either or he needs to be tagged and at worst be traded for better than a 3rd rd comp.

if a team gives us 2 1st round picks for him then that's fine lol

 

[RavensMania]

if a team gives us 2 1st round picks for him then that's fine lol

please let it be the bears

 

[Willbacker]

if a team gives us 2 1st round picks for him then that's fine lol

Oh absolutely. Had to do a quick re-learning of the tags lol. Tagging him is a no-brainer.