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The Lamar, The Defence and The Special Teams

pay your stars
build around them

pay madubuike and you have him, roquan and hamilton around as the spine of your defence for the next 3 years (at least), none of them even hit 30 for 4 years...
Exactly. That’s your core, that’s what makes your team go, from there on you add complementary guys to round out the roster year after year. I will let every single on of those guys walk in March if it means we retain madubuike, without a thought. Then, you gotta make some trades for draft capital over the next few years to keep the cupboard stocked with bodies.
 
Nearly Every single guy you named is someone who is out the door in a year or two with or without madubuike and that was always going to be how it worked, and with that the ravens will continue drafting and making depth signings to round out their roster while the star players do the heavy lifting.

Frankly it’s the same as every super bowl caliber team.

In or out of a vacuum I don’t see how you do what’s best for the long term success of the franchise by letting one of the 3 most dominant defenders you’ve had since Suggs leave, and for nothing in return.
The issue is, even if they're out the door sooner rather than later, you still need to replace them and with very limited cap space, you're absolutely looking at more John Simpson's or rookies and less Kevin Zeitler's and Jadeveon Clowney's of the world. I don't think that bodes well for a team with consistent Super Bowl aspirations.

Just the offensive line and running back room would have me very nervous after we saw 2021.
 
He’s an OL and DL guy by trade - works with OL masterminds

Grades sacks and pressures into different categories based on the film and basically weights higher quality sacks heavier to churn out a number
There should still be a methodology available and a reasoning behind his grading. That's what I'd like to see. I don't take it seriously if that's not readily available.
 
On a franchise tag that is absolutely true, but if we are able to extend him on a contract similar in structure to Hargrave's. Not same numbers but. similar structure, then we will be able to bring back some reasonable contracts. We were never going to be active in early free agency anyway. Not with our cap space.
If he gets a Hargrave contract, and I think he's going to exceed that, that's basically the only move the Ravens can make before any other moves are made because you need to account for the draft class.
 
The issue is, even if they're out the door sooner rather than later, you still need to replace them and with very limited cap space, you're absolutely looking at more John Simpson's or rookies and less Kevin Zeitler's and Jadeveon Clowney's of the world. I don't think that bodes well for a team with consistent Super Bowl aspirations.

Just the offensive line and running back room would have me very nervous after we saw 2021.
You’re not fine with that, I am, because we drafted madubuike just as we are going to draft replacements for those guys and numbers of them are gonna surprise tf out of us and become quality starters, some are gonna be good depth, some will bust, but one thing is known in that group… an elite homegrown talent drafted here is likely to stay here, and that includes the RB and OL room as well.

For all we know Andrew vorhees and Ben Cleveland could be the most formidable G tandem in the league come 2025 and we could have a starting pair of tackles just from the draft. When we drafted madubuike, we were desperate for a pass rushing 3tech for a very long time, and we damn sure didn’t expect to be talking about market resetting contracts after a 12 sack season, yet here we are… why in the hell would we let that go for any reason when we KNOW that the odds are that we’re gonna keep drafting well and these upcoming roster holes you speak of aren’t gonna be such big holes come kickoff? We do this and then we’re looking to sign or draft a DT to replace 12 sacks and 64 pressures, our pass rush falls off a cliff, and for what… 2-3 mid tier FA signings? Nah I’ll take the draft for that kinda talent.
 
If he gets a Hargrave contract, and I think he's going to exceed that, that's basically the only move the Ravens can make before any other moves are made because you need to account for the draft class.
There are few players on the roster we can, and I think we will, extend - Marlon, Andrews, Stanley (if you dare due to frequent injuries), Marcus Williams maybe, restructure Roquan...
 
Nearly Every single guy you named is someone who is out the door in a year or two with or without madubuike and that was always going to be how it worked, and with that the ravens will continue drafting and making depth signings to round out their roster while the star players do the heavy lifting.

Frankly it’s the same as every super bowl caliber team.

In or out of a vacuum I don’t see how you do what’s best for the long term success of the franchise by letting one of the 3 most dominant defenders you’ve had since Suggs leave, and for nothing in return.
I'm with you. Not going to be able to replace every single one of those guys but we damn sure have a better shot at replacing them than we do Madubuike at this point. FA doesn't start and end in March either. We routinely sign guys late and have ways to make room for them.
 
You’re not fine with that, I am, because we drafted madubuike just as we are going to draft replacements for those guys and numbers of them are gonna surprise tf out of us and become quality starters, some are gonna be good depth, some will bust, but one thing is known in that group… an elite homegrown talent drafted here is likely to stay here, and that includes the RB and OL room as well.

For all we know Andrew vorhees and Ben Cleveland could be the most formidable G tandem in the league come 2025 and we could have a starting pair of tackles just from the draft. When we drafted madubuike, we were desperate for a pass rushing 3tech for a very long time, and we damn sure didn’t expect to be talking about market resetting contracts after a 12 sack season, yet here we are… why in the hell would we let that go for any reason when we KNOW that the odds are that we’re gonna keep drafting well and these upcoming roster holes you speak of aren’t gonna be such big holes come kickoff? We do this and then we’re looking to sign or draft a DT to replace 12 sacks and 64 pressures, our pass rush falls off a cliff, and for what… 2-3 mid tier FA signings? Nah I’ll take the draft for that kinda talent.
I think the fact that someone like Andrew Vorhees is even getting a mention is pretty laughable and a huge cause for concern. Players coming off injury and missing an entire rookie season don't have a great track record of working out.

If signing Madibuike meant losing both starting guards, Moses, Queen, Darby, Clowney, Van Noy, OBJ, Maulet, I think you'd be crazy to do it. But that's a potential reality. Realistically, a lot of those guys are walking anyway (Queen, Zeitler, Simpson, almost certainly), but you have to start dipping into the money pot elsewhere and taking from other positions.

I do not view Madibuike as this franchise altering player who is going to make up for the losses of guys like Clowney, Von Noy, Darby, Queen, and Maulet on defense or justify the potential loss of three offensive lineman.

Like I said- it's not *just* signing Madibuike- it's signing Madibuike and severely handicapping the ability to sign other players.
 
I think the fact that someone like Andrew Vorhees is even getting a mention is pretty laughable and a huge cause for concern. Players coming off injury and missing an entire rookie season don't have a great track record of working out.

If signing Madibuike meant losing both starting guards, Moses, Queen, Darby, Clowney, Van Noy, OBJ, Maulet, I think you'd be crazy to do it. But that's a potential reality. Realistically, a lot of those guys are walking anyway (Queen, Zeitler, Simpson, almost certainly), but you have to start dipping into the money pot elsewhere and taking from other positions.

I do not view Madibuike as this franchise altering player who is going to make up for the losses of guys like Clowney, Von Noy, Darby, Queen, and Maulet on defense or justify the potential loss of three offensive lineman.

Like I said- it's not *just* signing Madibuike- it's signing Madibuike and severely handicapping the ability to sign other players.
But how many of those guys do you realistically expect back? They’ve all done really well this year but they’re almost all on the older side too and give us maybe 1-2 more years of quality play if we’re lucky.
 
If he gets a Hargrave contract, and I think he's going to exceed that, that's basically the only move the Ravens can make before any other moves are made because you need to account for the draft class.
he will exceed that i'm just talking about structure
 
I think the fact that someone like Andrew Vorhees is even getting a mention is pretty laughable and a huge cause for concern. Players coming off injury and missing an entire rookie season don't have a great track record of working out.

If signing Madibuike meant losing both starting guards, Moses, Queen, Darby, Clowney, Van Noy, OBJ, Maulet, I think you'd be crazy to do it. But that's a potential reality. Realistically, a lot of those guys are walking anyway (Queen, Zeitler, Simpson, almost certainly), but you have to start dipping into the money pot elsewhere and taking from other positions.

I do not view Madibuike as this franchise altering player who is going to make up for the losses of guys like Clowney, Von Noy, Darby, Queen, and Maulet on defense or justify the potential loss of three offensive lineman.

Like I said- it's not *just* signing Madibuike- it's signing Madibuike and severely handicapping the ability to sign other players.
I mean that’s fair about vorhees but you could insert sala, a rookie, a cheap fa signing that turns out surprisingly well which happens often, you get the picture.

What I’m saying is, nearly all of the guys you’re speaking about are run of the mill FAs aside from clowney and queen, I genuinely think madubuike would be harder to replace than all of the guys you are mentioning, yes all of them in total, and you disagree there and that’s fine. Interior DLs that play at this level just don’t come around often and I’m not tryna let this one go, I think he brings too much value.
 
I mean that’s fair about vorhees but you could insert sala, a rookie, a cheap fa signing that turns out surprisingly well which happens often, you get the picture.

What I’m saying is, nearly all of the guys you’re speaking about are run of the mill FAs aside from clowney and queen, I genuinely think madubuike would be harder to replace than all of the guys you are mentioning, yes all of them in total, and you disagree there and that’s fine. Interior DLs that play at this level just don’t come around often and I’m not tryna let this one go, I think he brings too much value.
I want Van Noy and Agholor re-signed.
 
But how many of those guys do you realistically expect back? They’ve all done really well this year but they’re almost all on the older side too and give us maybe 1-2 more years of quality play if we’re lucky.
I wouldn't expect many of them back, realistically, with the current cap situation, anyway. But the point still remains- you need replacements and the Ravens are operating on very thin cap margins to do that.
 
I wouldn't expect many of them back, realistically, with the current cap situation, anyway. But the point still remains- you need replacements and the Ravens are operating on very thin cap margins to do that.
But also most of those guys that we now need to replace in this scenario are guys we got on cheap deals in the first place.
 
I want Van Noy and Agholor re-signed.
I’d love to keep Nelly here, he belongs, so does KVN but that dude could fall off a cliff any year.

If anything, I think KVN and clowney are the ones that have priced themselves out of Baltimore, They overperformed like a mf this year and I don’t see EDC playing this any way other than giving madubuike his due while getting comp picks for clowney and KVN and they take a major regression next year.
 
I'm with you. Not going to be able to replace every single one of those guys but we damn sure have a better shot at replacing them than we do Madubuike at this point. FA doesn't start and end in March either. We routinely sign guys late and have ways to make room for them.

Last year was a much tougher year to sort the cap with a much larger contract problem to work out

No reason to think they won’t figure this out if they need to
 
But how many of those guys do you realistically expect back? They’ve all done really well this year but they’re almost all on the older side too and give us maybe 1-2 more years of quality play if we’re lucky.

I think the question I have is…
If we weren’t up against the cap, would you give madubuike a competitive, top of the market DT deal…

I think the answer is yes

Which means it should still be yes when you’re up against the cap too
 
I’d love to keep Nelly here, he belongs, so does KVN but that dude could fall off a cliff any year.

If anything, I think KVN and clowney are the ones that have priced themselves out of Baltimore, They overperformed like a mf this year and I don’t see EDC playing this any way other than giving madubuike his due while getting comp picks for clowney and KVN and they take a major regression next year.

Those are the guys you let hit the market, if they make bank you say thank you for the random extra unexpected comp pick, if they don’t then you maybe have a Justin Houston type situation…
 
I think the question I have is…
If we weren’t up against the cap, would you give madubuike a competitive, top of the market DT deal…

I think the answer is yes

Which means it should still be yes when you’re up against the cap too
This too. A player that needs to stay is a player that needs to stay and you make that work.
 
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