2019 EDGE Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

I like Montez sweat a lot, the more I watch the more I like, he just disengages so damn well and bends the edge well despite lacking great flexibility or burst. Dude is an expert with his hands and with this I can see him being a huge contributor year 1.

Hopefully the lack of elite traits can have him fall to us because I really like him for us at 22

 

[rossihunter2]

I like Montez sweat a lot, the more I watch the more I like, he just disengages so damn well and bends the edge well despite lacking great flexibility or burst. Dude is an expert with his hands and with this I can see him being a huge contributor year 1.

Hopefully the lack of elite traits can have him fall to us because I really like him for us at 22

he's got some nice variety already and some top notch athletic traits - that flexibility always has me worried when i see some of that stiffness coming around the corner in pass rushers but the last few drafts some of those less flexible guys have found a way to translate pure athleticism into edge bend in the pros to decent effect

i suppose not everyone can be derek barnett

 

[Adreme]

I like Montez sweat a lot, the more I watch the more I like, he just disengages so damn well and bends the edge well despite lacking great flexibility or burst. Dude is an expert with his hands and with this I can see him being a huge contributor year 1.

Hopefully the lack of elite traits can have him fall to us because I really like him for us at 22

I have always found it odd how guys who do 1 thing well get vastly over drafted when you have always needed multiple moves to succeed in the NFL and its easier to build up multiple that are okay then build up some that are awful and refine the 1 good thing.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Josh Allen declaring himself a #1 pick worked, fans who don’t know any better suddenly think he’s the best edge rusher behind Nick Bosa not even realizing his sack production wasn’t as a result of rushing well with quality traits and was highly manufactured.

 

[Italian Raven]

Josh Allen declaring himself a #1 pick worked, fans who don’t know any better suddenly think he’s the best edge rusher behind Nick Bosa not even realizing his sack production wasn’t as a result of rushing well with quality traits and was highly manufactured.

I'll say it again..Leonard Floyd 2.0 with some coverage traits.
It was alreasy a half scandal that CHI selected his clone in the top 10..let alone anyone taking Allen ahead of Bosa and Q.Williams.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'll say it again..Leonard Floyd 2.0 with some coverage traits.
It was alreasy a half scandal that CHI selected his clone in the top 10..let alone anyone taking Allen ahead of Bosa and Q.Williams.

I actually liked Leonard Floyd and still like him more than Allen, he was incredibly instinctive, moreso than Allen, but I definitely see the comparison, his ceiling is Anthony Barr but I really do not see him hitting that ceiling when I see how he gets lost in coverage so often, he’s just out there doing fuck all basically every zone drop, and in general there are way too many snaps where he genuinely looks like he doesn’t know wtf he’s doing

 

[Justdewinit20]

Josh Allen declaring himself a #1 pick worked, fans who don’t know any better suddenly think he’s the best edge rusher behind Nick Bosa not even realizing his sack production wasn’t as a result of rushing well with quality traits and was highly manufactured.

I wouldn’t go that far. Allen won a lot on his athletic skill set. He’s not a refined pass rusher like Bosa. He’s going to have to learn pash rush moves to be successful in the NFL.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I wouldn’t go that far. Allen won a lot on his athletic skill set. He’s not a refined pass rusher like Bosa. He’s going to have to learn pash rush moves to be successful in the NFL.

He did win on athleticism, but a lot of his production came from schemes that got him free rushes, and when he did win 1v1(not often enough for him to be considered a top 5 pick) it was unimpressive and didn’t inspire me to think he’s a quality nfl edge rusher.

If he wants to be who he claims to be, you’re right, he’s got a lot of work to do, he’s gotta get stronger and he’s gotta build an arsenal of rush moves from the ground up.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Joe Jackson from Miami, when this kid is on his game he can be good, inconsistent on a snap to snap basis and it’s frustrating. Odd looking stance may lead to inconsistencies. Has a knack for standing straight out of his stance and taking false steps. over eager when crashing his side against the run and has blown counters for big runs. Not a flexible bender and you won’t see him lean and dip to flatten the edge, even when he wins the jump and has the opportunity to. Now that the bad is out of the way... he looks like an ideal edge rusher physically, he’s tall, he’s long, and he’s a lean kind of jacked. When he has a proper fire he almost always makes an impact, if he can get that stance and first step mechanics together he can be special because he really flies off the ball, but inconsiently. Speed to power is where he makes his money, he is deadly when he brings that one hand stab with a well placed violent pop to the upper center chest of the OT, and a good lean and leg drive forward to put the blocker on skates and drive him into the qb.

It’s all about the mechanics of his first step, he’s a 3 point rusher and not an olb as far as I can tell, but he’s gotta fix the way he fires from his stance, when he does it properly he seems to consistently bring pressure and when he stands straight up and shuffles the feet like a dumb dumb then he just wasted a snap.

 

[Italian Raven]

As it happens in every class and with every position there's going to be one player flying under everyone's radar, and that's despite the intangiles.
For the EDs that guy is Chase Winovich.
I think he's surprisingly similar to TJ Watt, as an intelligent and passionate OLB.
He played top tier players the whole time and was solid for the most part.

Against ND he showed a good variety of moves to beat his opponent as a pass-rusher and good play recognition to defend the run.

Starting from the 1 on 1s:
there's this thing which might be his go-to move; he attacks the T on a straight line to the QB, shoots his hands inside to have the control. Then disorients the opponent, faking an inside move and pushing him aside.

Those and the next few plays display the physical demeanor of Winovich
Watch him reacting to the RT shoulders alignment and push him backward all the way into the RB running lane.
QB elects to keep the football on the option but would've been a tfl.

The ball goes the other direction, but you have to appreciate that nice push-pull to shed the block on the right side of the Dline.

Violent slap to avoid contact with the RT and good motor to reach the bf.

Reacts with good enough timing to RB screen. His QI and above average football speed gets SMU only a short yard gain

When all is said and done #15 might not be the strongest edge defender or the pass rusher with the prettiest bend but his reliability off the field and his all-around solid skillset will make him a worthy pick. Even as a late 1st rounder.

 

[Italian Raven]

Vs SMU

0.20 shoots hands inside the LT pads, sheds block
1.12 doesn't have the power to work through the G but does maintain active feet and has motor to finish
1.26 used as a 5t DE hands to the ground. Good and fast work around the RT but has to take a little too wide angle and RB breaks arm tackle. He's just not made to play in a 3linemen formation and be asked to 2 gap
2.26 good getoff albeit not particularly explosive. Lack of top end speed and long arms allow T to make contact with his shoulder and hinder the passrush attempt
Still..not a bad attempt
2.45 nice double step to cross LT face and close on the QB despite hold
3.22 used as 3t. Great motor to keep chasing the QB to the sidelines and bring him down for no gain
4.33 5t. Hands to the ground. Shoots the gap and gets to the RB in the bf
4.48 good fast getoff. Gets good angle for easy win
6.58 good explosion and punch to reject LT
7.58 good QI as reads the screen. Then great motor to chase the RB and drag him down for short gain


Vs ND
00.08 sees space in the B gap, shoots it and good rip move for QB pressure
00.35 G stays low and mobile so CW doesn't find a way to bring in pressure. Still shows motor to move well around
00.45 fails to read the run option and bites on the fake handoff to the RB
1.36 good angle and pursuit but RT gets shot at his shoulder as CW doesn't try to swap his hands
2.05 very good display of gap containment. Discipline and technique
2.47 disorients LT with contact and double move. Gets QB hit forcing inc
2.55 understands it's a RB screen by the QB deep deopback
3.23 exact same play of 2.47 finishing with club move and sack
3.45 good first step and outside speed. Closes in for QB hit
3.54 good explosion as shoots hands inside the pads and drives RT backwards. Gets penetration and flag for holding
4.09 benchpresses RT dropping him to the ground. QB hit
4.24 good gap control. Brings RB down for no gain
4.35 shoots inside with good pad level. Gets pressure
4.55 avoids RT hands beating him inside and so the RB chip
5.25 takes on the C pull. Patient and technically sound extending the arms and shredding the block
6.20 same play of 5.25. Gets tfl
6.27 1t. Gets driven away from C
6.36 takes narrow angle at the snap as the OLBs shoot outside. Intelligent and disciplined play. Tfl


Vs Neb
1.45 decent core ans upper body strength to push RT back
4.20 pushes LT into the the bf and maintains distance to work around for QB hit. Good motor
5.00 5t hands to the ground. Faking bullrush to then slash inside. Good motor. Sack


Vs PennSt
00.17 violent slap inside to shoot B gap and sack
1.37 nice speed and rip to hit qb
2.00 shoots the empty backfield anticipating the G pull.. Misses tackle but forces RB inside for the teammates to finish
2.14 decent speed and shoulder dip to share sack
4.22 keeps low pads and pushing in B gap to pressure despite double team


Vs Fla
09.58 stays low and penetrates B gap for tfl
15.48 misreads the handoff on run option
18.46 gets push on TE and wraps up nicely around runner legs. tfl
30.05 triple teamed
30.35 absorbs RG pull and works around players to finish tackle for short gain
32.45 free getoff with RG pull. Shily throws his shoulder at blocker instead of pushing him backward with favorable rush momentum
33.24 they leave him unblocked on the option/ toss left
35.46 very good punch on 2gaps duty
50.31 good getoff
1.07.17 5t hands to the ground. Avoids RT punch and slashes in B gap. No gain on the run
1.12.08 unblocked gets tfl
1.13.30 not particularly fast but gets nice punch on RT pads and pushes him a few steps backward
1.37.53 4t hands to the ground. Crosses RG face gets low, locks hips for sack

 

[Edgar]

Man, Christian Miller is a good football player.

 

[Edgar]

Miller off RT
Pretty much his go to move off the edge: swat hands and try to win the edge but shows bend and the ability to flatten. He is also so good against the run and in can cover. Like to see added strength and weight...but a very good football player

 

[allblackraven]

View attachment 1358

Miller off RT
Pretty much his go to move off the edge: swat hands and try to win the edge but shows bend and the ability to flatten. He is also so good against the run and in can cover. Like to see added strength and weight...but a very good football player

Yes he is. Lot of injury trouble during Bama years, though.

 

[Italian Raven]

I guess it's time to share my take on Polite, for which I'll probably get some of sheet thrown my way but I'll survive that lol.
Boards like this are made for constructive confrontations and hopefully some of you will enlighten me on the reasons that made the player so highly coveted, since I can't see them myself.
I'd also devide the positives and negatives on two different posts because I have a ton of negatives to show and don't want to end up with a 20-80 ratio, looking simply biased.

The main trait, visible to everyone's eyes, is definitely the ability to win with his getoff to get outside leverage on the T and finish it with speed.
A speed that he does translate into spin moves and counters.

Here's two good displays of speed and pads. Hips also close with good timing

Good getoff, shoulder dip to avoid contact

One more proof of his winning shoulder dip, ending with a shared sack and FF

Very good motor after shooting the gap. Gets barely affected by LG push, who doesn't have the speed to recover. Gets sack and FF

His speed forces the T to a deep, lateral sidekick. This allows Polite to spin back inside and get an important QB hit

Despite not having the versatility to play some snaps inside, Polite does have the speed to cause some troubles around the edge and in B gap as well, once the Ts take a false step.


(cons coming soon)

 

[Italian Raven]

My biggest issue with him is the inconsistency both as a run defender and as a pass rusher.
If you notice, all of his wins do not include hand fights, swims, bull rushes of any sort. He is not that willing to play physical and will rather choose to work around the blockers than through them.
The consequence is that he will allow a ton of contact when he doesn't win with speed.

You can argue that #33 is responsible for the inside lane on this one. However, he attempts a double move and shoulder dips instead of taking on the block and eventually force him inside. RB running lane should've never been that big.

The G pull is a clear indication of an inside run. He takes a wide side step instead of containing, which would've helped the teammates to crowd the bf and finish. Still a positive defensive outcome because of the ILB blitz, but I have a problem with his attitude

TE gets 4 yard initial push on him because pads are way too tall and becomes an easy target

Easy run block duties for TE. #99 base and punch aren't very solid

The next concern is about his rushing angles. You see him getting too deep on op of the arch once and you'll have deja-vous during every tape of his.
It's the same thing repeating itself over and over again.
This is a good read by the QB against a very deep LB drop off regardless, but the lack of his (and DTs) discipline makes it too easy for anyone.

You just can't end up on the other side of the field more often than not. You're just exposing your D to big plays when there should be none.

One could say this is just a discipline thing and can be tought, but drafting such an unrefined player in the first round is more a gamble to me than not.
Sure, every selection is somehow a sort of gamble but I see too many inconsistencies in his game and his pass rush isn't good enough for me to even out the doubts and take him with a top 30 pick

 

[Italian Raven]

Vs MissSt



00.50 good side step with decent pad level to win inside and reach into the bf
00.55 double moves and takes outside lane. Allows contact by LT and leaves big gap inside. Should have contained, not guessed.
1.16 RT is late off the snap, doesn't side kick...follows him with his eyes but is already in bad position and doesn't even attempt a punch. Easy sack
1.48 good speed and rip to hit QB on release
2.22 decent speed and stays pretty low.. But lets RT punch him and gets too deep in the bf
2.55 good getoff speed and pads to close on the QB for sack
3.00 good shoulder dip and speed to win outside


Vs LSU
0.50 very fast in the gap and very good motor to chase QB for sack and FF
1.21 nice read of Oline motion and shoots the gap, forcing him inside
3.02 unblocked takes the wrong read on the option, allowing convertion for big gain
3.08 doesn't stay squared to carrier who jukes and forces misses tackle
3.14 finishes 10 yard deep in the bf
4.47 clever play as he pushes TE into RB lane, redirecting him outside
5.32 very good getoff but has no second plan once LT recovers outside
6.14 nice spin inside to get QB hit
6.58 again 10 yd deep with no chance to close inside
7.07 good motor and effort to finish the play


Vs Mich



0.42 sees RB coming for chip block. Avoids him taking wide sidestep. Gets totally out of position instead of crushing him and taking away the option
2.17 good shoulder deep. Shares sack. FF
3.16 good step inside to gain leverage and take away running lane
3.56 good hands placement. Sheds block and maintains assignment
5.09 wrong reed on double option
5.38 good shoulder dip but can't lock hips at top of the arch and ends up wide
5.47 doesnt really have a rushing plan but stays very active on his feet.


Vs FSU
0.23 works well with his hands to stay free. Attacks the hole and records tfl
2.36 speed rush without using his hands (like 4.24 and others). RT pushes him as he gets way far upfield
2.46 LT gets outside step to take away his rush. He stays content and doesn't try to push nor counter
4.05 after numerous speed rushes where he got way too wide on top of the arch, he closes this one with good rip and forces fumble
4.19 way too quick getoff and speed for RT. Sack


Vs Tenn
0.24 easily moved around by LT
0.35 unblocked. Gets sack and FF
1.06 same play of 0.24.
1.15 too wide on top of the arch
2.13 easy job on run block by RT
3.00 lacking funtional strength to sustain block but good effort to chase play and finish
3.05 offside
3.53 decent pick up of man coverage (wheel). A little late to turn his hips tho
4.16 LG pull. Instead of taking on blocker he jumps aside leaving free line inside


Vs Mizz
0.30 good pad level and arm extention
0.55 sudden spin to hit gap
1.00 no pass rush plan, not only stalled but pushed a few yards backwards
1.06 offside
1.20 easily moved away from play by TE
1.54 good awarness as he quickly reaches out to the RB on the flat
2.14 bad read on run option
3.26 decent counter with use of the hands to prevent contact


Vs SC
0.06 offside
0.27 sqeezes too much inside and loses outside leverage on runner
0.44 easily pushed back by LT before double team comes
1.01 no pass rush plan. Coverage sack
1.20 explosive punch into RT chest to knock him off balance and get strip sack
1.51 very good getoff but predictable rushing lane with no rip nor club
2.08 way too tall pads. Allows TE to push him 4 yards backwards
2.41 good swim to keep himself free. Shares tackle
3.14 takes himself out of the play with too wide and deep outside lane


Vs CSU
0.26 determined penetration of B gap with good getoff and pads
0.50 too far deep in the bf
0.55 takes advantage of 1vs1 against RB. Sack
2.26 attempts rip once he's already way too far in the bf
3.10 nice spin inside to bring pressure
3.25 miscommunication between G-T allows him to penetrate inside, bringing pressure
3.38 ok slap to avoid contact and get pressure. Doesn't stay low though and overruns it


Vs Geo
2.16 allows contact. Ends up 12 yards deep and QB scrambles in the hole he let free
2.47 easily controlled by TE on run play
2.55 decent stab to maintain distance. Still ends up too wide to reach QB in time and bring any pressure in
3.26 allows contact. Pass rush nullified
3.34 clean open field tackle


Vs Kentucky
1.28 bounces back from OL block. Not very solid base but good effort to work around it and close on ballcarrier
2.40 very good effort chasing the play considering he was lined up on the other side of the formation
3.32 outside rush doesn't work but shows good motor to work it back inside. QB hit
4.22 isn't able to finish on RB but very good effort working through block
4.50 reads the sweep right. gets to the RB with good speed and timing
5.56 good punch into RB chest. Can't disengage to finish on RB
7.34 unblocked but displays good edge speed. Tfl

 

[Edgar]

@Italian Raven
Thanks for these looks and for the work. On Polite: I agree.
I've never been as high on him as a lot of folks. In watching five games, I saw no ability to counter, no use of hands. Pro tackles will get their hands on him and he needs answers. he has extreme burst to be sure and the spin move was effective once that I saw but he is quite raw as an edge rusher and overly reliant on burst and dip. He isn't close to the pass rusher that Tim Williams was coming out....he plays hard and I appreciate that about him but he is far from ready to go as a rookie.

He gets absolutely manhandled and washed more often than not against the run. The Tennessee game (I think) is a prime example.

 

[Edgar]

@Italian Raven
I hadn't watched Winovich until I looked at your review. I saw two games last night and fell asleep watching a third but can't wait to watch more. I love when you see something right away in a prospect....the proverbial jump off the screen.
I am interested to watch him vs. the run. That part of his game is not as clear cut after two games...I'd say he sometimes reads wrong or hesitates vs. read option. I noticed he misreads a screen and generally is of the mindset that he wants upfield and he wants the quarterback.

Great powerful hands....destroys tackles with a powerful rip. has burst and a plan off the line. Way more promising as a pass rusher than Bowser out of college. I see the Watt comp so far as his pressures and play style but I don't see him ( in admittedly minimal viewing) as the run defender/edge setter that Watt was out of school. We need a second round pick.
Cant wait to watch more. Thanks. Might have to do a video

 

[RavensMania]

I've watched some film on Polite also, but not as much as you and I agree. Yes he has his strengths, good get off and a nice burst, but he will need to come up with more moves to counter in the NFL. agree with @Edgar that Tim Williams was a much better pass rusher coming out.