Free Agency 2019

[Oldfaithful]

Nah I like Boyle...always have. Hes a beast and i always said if he was on a different team like KC or Pitt he'd be a well known TE in the league. Even with his suspensions he'd still have solid numbers. EDC knows this that's why he resigned him. But yes we do have a log jam at TE if Hurst becomes the player we believed he was. Now if one of them loses playing time we wont miss a beat. Offense over defense at this point and time.

You mean to tell me, with a QB who's obsessed with throwing to his TEs, that Boyle would've put up better numbers elsewhere? 2016 Dennis Pitta other than TDs had damn near a career year despite clearly not being the same player. Hayden Hurst played in what, 10 games last year and he already has more career TDs than Boyle. Don't give me that crap.

It was a bad contract. I'm sorry. If we wanted a good blocking TE, there were plenty in the later rounds to choose from. Sure as shit would've been a better pick than McSorely

 

[Oldfaithful]

Sorry but its 100% not eric fault. Lose out on mccoy and youre gonna blame him cause of one contract? 6million?. Who was resoonsible for the bwill and jeffro contract? Why they arent to blame?

Tony Jefferson has actually been a good player, and remember, he took a paycut to come here. Ozzie's restructuring has fucked us more than anything. So no.

Brandon Williams, all Ozzie.

But we'd have $6 million on the books to either a, rollover to next year, or b, pay McCoy, a far superior player, with.

So yes. It's Eric's fault. That $6 mil could have been an x-factor in this scenario and would've given us the necessary capital to contend with the Browns if it did come down to the money(barring the Browns don't super overpay, like $20 mil a season).

So yes. It's his fault

 

[cdp]

To the guys who know league wide information: How true are these two statements?

Did Carolina clear that much cap?

And is McCoy honestly called big softy? Does his play reflect that? Is it something that will trickle down to our younger players?

Torrey took a 2m pay cut, but the Panthers don't have 18m cap space. Atm it's less than the 11m spotrac reports because Burns and Little aren't signed yet. The Panthers definitely don't have more cap space than we have.
The Bucs GM is not the smartest GM so I'm not surprised they cut McCoy.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

You mean to tell me, with a QB who's obsessed with throwing to his TEs, that Boyle would've put up better numbers elsewhere? 2016 Dennis Pitta other than TDs had damn near a career year despite clearly not being the same player. Hayden Hurst played in what, 10 games last year and he already has more career TDs than Boyle. Don't give me that crap.

It was a bad contract. I'm sorry. If we wanted a good blocking TE, there were plenty in the later rounds to choose from. Sure as shit would've been a better pick than McSorely

If we were any other team, it’s a bad contract, and I scoffed at the contract at first, but honestly Boyle for THIS offense is worth it. Honestly he is a pretty key piece, no TE in the league can block quite like Boyle, having Boyle allows us to field a RT who is an absolute monster but will likely struggle at times with premiere speed rushers, we can completely eliminate most strong side speed rushers by having Boyle out there and our run game gets a huge boost not just from Boyle’s blocking, but because of what he would allow someone like Zeus jr to do, he gets to key in and grind down DTs and totally eliminate LBs with sheer power and size. He really brings a big difference to this offense I think.

I understand though, 6m per for a blocking TE is obviously questionable, but man Boyle just really opens up a lot of shit for this exotic run first offense, and not only that, but he is also as sure handed as they come, he can’t run a route, he can’t break long ones, he can’t contest the catch, but that’s what allows him to get open because he is forgotten as a receiver and he just doesn’t drop the ball and when he catches it he has a knack for rumbling past the sticks, when we’re in a tight spot and need to convert a third and 5 he is an asset, because the front side rush isn’t gonna get home and he can break off and convert that play basically untouched and you know he’s not dropping the ball, and you know if he catches it a yard shy then the odds of him getting that yard are very favorable. Boyle just.... fits.

Now obviously I’d rather have McCoy, but I just can’t hate the Boyle signing anymore. He’s a different breed and he was meant for this offense, no matter unsexy it is.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Sorry but its 100% not eric fault. Lose out on mccoy and youre gonna blame him cause of one contract? 6million?. Who was resoonsible for the bwill and jeffro contract? Why they arent to blame?

Jefferson’s been a good pickup. He’s probably the defacto defensive captain now, and with Thomas replacing weddle and now having 2 undersized backers starting, he is probably about to shine, he’s now in a situation that his skill set is best fit in. I think Jefferson is about to have a year where he becomes a bit of a big name, I’m expecting a number of key stops, some sacks, TFLs, and in a year where he’s taking on a leader role and making a difference pre snap. I also wouldn’t be shocked if he got a good number of picks in the short range now that he’s gonna be taking shallow zone assignments and coming downhill to cover, surprising some QBs and showing up in some unexpected places

 

[All_black_everything]

Torrey took a 2m pay cut, but the Panthers don't have 18m cap space. Atm it's less than the 11m spotrac reports because Burns and Little aren't signed yet. The Panthers definitely don't have more cap space than we have.
The Bucs GM is not the smartest GM so I'm not surprised they cut McCoy.

Sounds a lot more along the lines I’ve been reading as far as the Panthers cap space.

As far as McCoy, how has his play been lately? Worth all of this fuss or becoming more name at this point?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Sounds a lot more along the lines I’ve been reading as far as the Panthers cap space.

As far as McCoy, how has his play been lately? Worth all of this fuss or becoming more name at this point?

6 sacks last year with one of the worst secondaries in the league behind him. Significant production for a DT

 

[cdp]

Sounds a lot more along the lines I’ve been reading as far as the Panthers cap space.

As far as McCoy, how has his play been lately? Worth all of this fuss or becoming more name at this point?

To add to your previous question: Suh takes more plays off and is more of a character concern than McCoy.
McCoy had better stats than Suh even though Mccoy just played on the bucs dline whereas Suh played alongside of Donald

 

[Deebo813]

To the guys who know league wide information: How true are these two statements?

Did Carolina clear that much cap?

And is McCoy honestly called big softy? Does his play reflect that? Is it something that will trickle down to our younger players?

He is in fact called a softy. All facts there

 

[QuothTheRaven]

One thing I've heard about McCoy is that as he's gotten older he 'cheats' off the line to get into good pass rush positions, and so has become possibly vulnerable as a run defender.

I haven't watched him to see of that's true though. Nor would I be in a position to assess him. Anyone on here confirm/deny?

 

[rossihunter2]

One thing I've heard about McCoy is that as he's gotten older he 'cheats' off the line to get into good pass rush positions, and so has become possibly vulnerable as a run defender.

I haven't watched him to see of that's true though. Nor would I be in a position to assess him. Anyone on here confirm/deny?

100% true - he tends toward pass rush over gap responsibilities etc - but he wouldn’t have those same responsibilities here because he’d be part of a rotation that gives him a larger proportion of opportunities to rush the passer vs face the run

 

[A1A]

You mean to tell me, with a QB who's obsessed with throwing to his TEs, that Boyle would've put up better numbers elsewhere? 2016 Dennis Pitta other than TDs had damn near a career year despite clearly not being the same player. Hayden Hurst played in what, 10 games last year and he already has more career TDs than Boyle. Don't give me that crap.

It was a bad contract. I'm sorry. If we wanted a good blocking TE, there were plenty in the later rounds to choose from. Sure as shit would've been a better pick than McSorely

Man c'mon I usually agree with you 100% but coach had Boyle in the dog house forever. And I think everyone knows but wont say it but Flacco and Pitta had a thing going on lol. Flacco forced everything to him no matter what. 3 and 14....pass to Pitta....2 yard gain. How many times have we seen Boyle make a "whoa" play?? I mean give the guy a chance. He's looked better than the starters during every preseason for the past 10 years! Poor guy...been #3-4 forever only because of the coach..now I ain't saying he's a #1 but definitely a #2. No but the contract was stupid tho that agree.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Man c'mon I usually agree with you 100% but coach had Boyle in the dog house forever. And I think everyone knows but wont say it but Flacco and Pitta had a thing going on lol. Flacco forced everything to him no matter what. 3 and 14....pass to Pitta....2 yard gain. How many times have we seen Boyle make a "whoa" play?? I mean give the guy a chance. He's looked better than the starters during every preseason for the past 10 years! Poor guy...been #3-4 forever only because of the coach..now I ain't saying he's a #1 but definitely a #2. No but the contract was stupid tho that agree.

Boyle doesn’t make a lot of wow plays. He’s not a bad player but that’s a bad contract. You want a good blocking TE, draft one. There were four or five good ones in this draft we could’ve had for pennies on the dollar. And a #2 TE isn’t with $6 mil a year and that money could’ve been used elsewhere. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[RavensMania]

I too wanted Chris Jones and had him as a first rounder

I definitely wanted Chris Jones in 2016 and drafted him in the Forum Mock

 

[Deebo813]

One thing I've heard about McCoy is that as he's gotten older he 'cheats' off the line to get into good pass rush positions, and so has become possibly vulnerable as a run defender.

I haven't watched him to see of that's true though. Nor would I be in a position to assess him. Anyone on here confirm/deny?

Crazy.. all the bucs fans have been telling me that he gets off the line fast as fuck, like no other.. they have good things to say about him.. except for the fact that he is too soft and nice

 

[Oldfaithful]

If we were any other team, it’s a bad contract, and I scoffed at the contract at first, but honestly Boyle for THIS offense is worth it. Honestly he is a pretty key piece, no TE in the league can block quite like Boyle, having Boyle allows us to field a RT who is an absolute monster but will likely struggle at times with premiere speed rushers, we can completely eliminate most strong side speed rushers by having Boyle out there and our run game gets a huge boost not just from Boyle’s blocking, but because of what he would allow someone like Zeus jr to do, he gets to key in and grind down DTs and totally eliminate LBs with sheer power and size. He really brings a big difference to this offense I think.

I understand though, 6m per for a blocking TE is obviously questionable, but man Boyle just really opens up a lot of shit for this exotic run first offense, and not only that, but he is also as sure handed as they come, he can’t run a route, he can’t break long ones, he can’t contest the catch, but that’s what allows him to get open because he is forgotten as a receiver and he just doesn’t drop the ball and when he catches it he has a knack for rumbling past the sticks, when we’re in a tight spot and need to convert a third and 5 he is an asset, because the front side rush isn’t gonna get home and he can break off and convert that play basically untouched and you know he’s not dropping the ball, and you know if he catches it a yard shy then the odds of him getting that yard are very favorable. Boyle just.... fits.

Now obviously I’d rather have McCoy, but I just can’t hate the Boyle signing anymore. He’s a different breed and he was meant for this offense, no matter unsexy it is.

First off. I know he’s a good fit. But it’s still an overpay. He’s a blocking TE, a good one, but you can find those in the mid to late rounds of most drafts. Hell, Boyle himself is proof of that. It’s a bad contract no matter how you spin it. He’s got good hands, but so do the other two TEs on the roster. I know he’s good in pass protection but if you’re relying on your TE that much(and I’m not talking about chipping either) On a blocking TE(and even with Brown’s athletic deficiencies it’s not THAT blatant) then there’s a far bigger problem at hand. Why can’t we idk INVEST IN THE DAMN LINE THEN.

He’s not a bad player but if it’s between me drafting another late round blocker and paying a guy like Boyle $6 million, it’s an easy choice. The cheaper option wins the day.

This isn’t as bad as the Hurst contract because Boyle is actually a good football player but he’s not worth what we paid him. We need to learn how to let certain players go.

 

[Charm City]

First off. I know he’s a good fit. But it’s still an overpay. He’s a blocking TE, a good one, but you can find those in the mid to late rounds of most drafts. Hell, Boyle himself is proof of that. It’s a bad contract no matter how you spin it. He’s got good hands, but so do the other two TEs on the roster. I know he’s good in pass protection but if you’re relying on your TE that much(and I’m not talking about chipping either) On a blocking TE(and even with Brown’s athletic deficiencies it’s not THAT blatant) then there’s a far bigger problem at hand. Why can’t we idk INVEST IN THE DAMN LINE THEN.

He’s not a bad player but if it’s between me drafting another late round blocker and paying a guy like Boyle $6 million, it’s an easy choice. The cheaper option wins the day.

This isn’t as bad as the Hurst contract because Boyle is actually a good football player but he’s not worth what we paid him. We need to learn how to let certain players go.

I saw somewhere that Boyle's blocking skills graded out as an average to slightly below average lineman in the NFL. If I knew where I saw it I'd post it, but it was probably a pff grade behind a pay wall that I can't access now.

If that's true, we signed a player who presents a serious wrinkle in this offense as he would basically be a swing tackle if we run, and be a great decoy in the play action game or check down option if we pass due to his skills as a receiving TE. That kind of versatility is what we paid for, and it's something that will not be justified by stats.

 

[Oldfaithful]

I saw somewhere that Boyle's blocking skills graded out as an average to slightly below average lineman in the NFL. If I knew where I saw it I'd post it, but it was probably a pff grade behind a pay wall that I can't access now.

If that's true, we signed a player who presents a serious wrinkle in this offense as he would basically be a swing tackle if we run, and be a great decoy in the play action game or check down option if we pass due to his skills as a receiving TE. That kind of versatility is what we paid for, and it's something that will not be justified by stats.

Okay....

THATS STILL NOT WORTH PAYING THAT KIND OF MONEY.

That’s not going to fundamentally change the offense. It’ll be good for maybe one first down a game, and likely not a crucial one. You drafted two TEs last year. One who actually improved as a blocker and one who’s a good blocker already. You want. Third guy, you don’t pay for it, you draft him for pennies on the dollar and you coach him up.

Just saying. That $6 million would’ve looked nice on rollover cap. It’s like the Hurst contract last year. Money that could’ve been better spent elsewhere.

 

[rossihunter2]

Okay....

THATS STILL NOT WORTH PAYING THAT KIND OF MONEY.

That’s not going to fundamentally change the offense. It’ll be good for maybe one first down a game, and likely not a crucial one. You drafted two TEs last year. One who actually improved as a blocker and one who’s a good blocker already. You want. Third guy, you don’t pay for it, you draft him for pennies on the dollar and you coach him up.

Just saying. That $6 million would’ve looked nice on rollover cap. It’s like the Hurst contract last year. Money that could’ve been better spent elsewhere.

its funny how there's this perception change when you get to blocking tight ends - blocking is incredibly important for OL and they get paid top dollars for their position because their job is thought of as so important and fundamental to a team and team-building in general especially in the current NFL where there's a dearth in quality

and yet when it comes to a blocking TE who grades out as a middle of the pack OT as a blocker (which is insane btw) and also adds a dynamism and flexibility element to your offence by virtue of being a receiving option and a movable piece behind the LoS pre-snap and can be motioned also but 6m a year is suddenly too much?

it doesnt make sense to me - honestly there's no way you get that sort of blocking production out of a rookie especially in year 1 and even if you get a good one you're not guaranteeing a replacement for boyle anyway and you're then also making a pick that you might have used on another position or BPA to specifically pick up a blocking TE when your roster is already full of (if boyle isnt around) only 2nd years as the veterans in the room... that's not a recipe for success either even if the former rookies have showed up and performed well

i mean he's not even getting that much - he's only making 1m/yr more then TJ Hockenson who's never even played a down in the nfl yet...

and in terms of value - he's not even the highest paid blocking tight end in the league

 

[Charm City]

Okay....

THATS STILL NOT WORTH PAYING THAT KIND OF MONEY.

That’s not going to fundamentally change the offense. It’ll be good for maybe one first down a game, and likely not a crucial one. You drafted two TEs last year. One who actually improved as a blocker and one who’s a good blocker already. You want. Third guy, you don’t pay for it, you draft him for pennies on the dollar and you coach him up.

Just saying. That $6 million would’ve looked nice on rollover cap. It’s like the Hurst contract last year. Money that could’ve been better spent elsewhere.

Haven't we had this conversation on the forum already? If you look at the TE contracts in Boyles range, you have guys named Cj uzomah, Tyler croft, Vernon Davis, Rhett Ellison, and Jack Doyle.

Tell me he is not obviously better than everyone in this range barring Doyle who imo he is comparable to. We paid market to below market value for a guy who is a perfect system fit.