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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread
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DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
“Get help”? I’m so tired of you being such an asshole. You can’t argue without namecalling and it’s bull shit, we are in the “well-mannered” thread and you are anything but well mannered. Have some respect for others. At least act like an adult.
And if you’re gonna be an ass, at least be right. Freedom of Assembly has nothing to do with a nightclub on private property lmao. Just like a brainwashed liberal to not know anything about the constitution. “Get help.”
Here we go again with only half the truth. He filed bankruptcy for four businesses. Never personally. That is a HUGE difference. But you probably only listen to what the liberal media tells you.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
And this is why this thread was a horrible idea...
lol - there's only one thread on this entire forum with more posts:
any guesses which one?
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
The needed one on a ravens forum.. Only one solution.
MoVe FlAcCo tO sTrOnG sAfTeY
Tank
Hall of Famer
Yep. And also notice Chas hasn’t been around after starting it. lol
when lost posted i literally went back to check whose idea it was and noticed their absence in the rest of the thread
Tank
Hall of Famer
He’s probably lurking, snickering shamelessly.
K-Dog
MVP
I don't know why I still pop my head in here.
We all have one thing in common.
We love the Ravens.
If you love the Ravens, I should not hate the thought of ever meeting you in person.
Sadly there are a few people here I feel that way about. It shouldn't be.
Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm sure CNN will make him the darling and Trump the oaf but seriously hopefully these talksare productive and not full of false promises.
Inqui
Pro Bowler
That one I actually do have to give Trump credit for (albeit we'll see what becomes of it), I didn't think the "Reagan gambit" would work like it has but I suspect that's at least part of what's brought Kim to the table. And it's fortuitous timing as well that a more hard-line South Korean president recently got impeached out of office in favour of one who's more interested in opening up ties with the north.
I still don't think Kim is as irrational as many make him out to be, and it looks like the survival of his regime is the biggest guarantee he's after in any talks to power down his nuclear arsenal. Be interesting to see if and how that can be arranged, but it also wouldn't surprise me if talks broke down over that.
But the really amusing thing is that a) Trump could well end up visiting North Korea before he visits the UK; b) if these talks work he could be a genuine contender for the Nobel Peace Prize and (unlike Obama or indeed a few recent winners) would have actually earned it.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
There are 2 schools of thought on it.
A) Kim called for these meeting because the sanctions are finally breaking them and denuclearization was a word used by NK specifically, and perhaps the Kim regime is actually scared of our abilities and the trump and mattis fire and fury rhetoric has worked
B) Kim with his nuclear arsenal complete is as confident as ever to bring the US to the table and lay out guidelines for a new relationship.
I'm leaning towards A, simply because NK just does not have the firepower nor do they have the resources. Kim may see that they have a nuclear deterrent, and can now tell the US "we don't want any more trouble, we now feel we can defend ourselves in the event of failed diplomacy, which is all we wanted, we are prepared to integrate ourselves into the world community"
I hope this happens. Let them stow away their arsenal, lighten the sanctions under very strict guidelines, keep a close eye, demand they feed their goddamn people and stop being lunatics.
Inqui
Pro Bowler
I'm inclined to believe something more like A as well. I said a while ago that the only way the Kim regime ends up launching a first strike is if they think a strike is imminent themselves. I'd say they're acutely aware of how a nuclear war would pan out, and maybe the fire and fury rhetoric got them a bit more apprehensive about the US striking first in ways that the previous Washington stance of keeping them at arm's length hasn't and that's possibly brought them to the table a bit quicker.
Iirc NK also used a meeting in PyeongChang to invite the South Korean President to stage talks as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of a good cop/bad cop dynamic going on (albeit probably unintentionally) and they finally came to the conclusion that there was too much to lose from the constant sabre-rattling and too much to gain from holding talks and at least seeing where they ended up. Even if the talks end up being busts it's at least a step in the right direction.
From NK's perspective anything that keeps the Kim regime in power is a win. And from everyone else's perspective anything that keeps the nukes off the ledge is a win (ideally a full denuclearisation and some degree of economic integration, even if the north ends up with a fairly centralised system like China on steroids - but realistically even setting up an enshrined framework where everyone simply spells out their position in writing would be a productive start. And for the love of all that is good I don't see the harm in ending the armistice and signing a formal peace treaty over the Korean War even if it's just an empty document that only acts as a token of free goodwill). Some kind of multilateral deal with China and SK acting as guarantors like the Iran deal has with the EU, Russia and China could be a good way to let everyone come out getting a stake in what they want, but like I say one step at a time. The key is to not go in expecting too much too early. All it takes is one missile test to go slightly haywire and everyone's back where they started. It's also possible that North Korea could simply want to take the international heat off for a while as they focus more on R&D for their next batch of missiles. Time will tell I guess.
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this would be incredible if it happened but i really struggle to believe trump has the diplomatic nouse not to ruin a negotiation by saying something stupid at any point...
this would be historic if it gets pulled off but im not waiting with baited breath given the inability of trump to show diplomacy even with supposed allies...
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I don't think that's an issue at all. I think trump is more strategic than his naysayers will ever admit. This fire and fury rhetoric was referred to as nothing but saber rattling and dick shaking, but here we see it worked, you don't think that paired with the sanctions was a strategic measure? I do, and always felt so, and I'm a tentative at best trump supporter. I just think his opposers for the most part won't give any credit at all. You really think that with the whole world at stake here he's gonna walk in there and drop his dick on the table and start flexing? He puts his foot in his mouth often but I think he's a lot more strategic than a lot of people can admit
ill be honest i think that's exactly what trump does...
ive not seen him win anything through strategy or diplomacy yet...
maybe this will be his big win but we dont know yet given that this meeting isnt even organised yet
if he does something successfully im fine giving him credit but i havent seen it happen yet
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I understand the megalomaniac narrative about him given his brash personality but I really think that's just the persona he's carried his whole life in the spotlight, I think he's a lot more calculated and measured than he puts off. I mean hell Master P was the richest rapper alive up until recently and he put out "UHHHHH UHHHHH NAH NAH NAH NAH" lol. Someone's persona isn't always indicative of their strategic and planning skills.
For instance I don't think he's flip flopping on guns, I think it's give and take with the democrats, take a softer approach on an issue they are very hard on in an attempt to buy some leverage for another issue down the road, like immigration or infrastructure
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
I know she doesn't represent all of CNN, but Erin Burnett, one of CNN's prominent commentators, actually said that Trump will go down as a great president if he can solve this dilemma with NK.
Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
I heard about that. That would be great if Trump can start getting a fair shake on that channel.
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