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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by usmccharles, May 22, 2017.

  1. Willbacker

    Willbacker Pro Bowler

    The great Ross Perot died yesterday. RIP. Everything this man said in 1992 came to be true. Him and Trump said pretty much the same things which is why I've always believed the govt needs some business common sense. Not a bunch of lawyers and career politicians.
  2. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran

    I did not say capitalism is bad, I said we don't practice responsible capitalism. I mentioned Nike and what they have done. Also construction companies that hire undocumented immigrants

    If you don't hire undocumented immigrants that it does not apply to that company lol.

    Companies have shown, time and time again, that they are willing to do anything for profit.
  3. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran

    Oh, the government definitely has business sense....just not for us lol
    • Funny Funny x 3
  4. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer Suspended

    I find it funny that people are wanting the government to fix the wealth gap when the government is one of the primary causers of the wealth gap.
  5. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer Suspended

    When it comes to America especially in my time in the legislative branch, I've come to the conclusion that the government, no matter what party you are, or who is running it, makes damn near everything worse. I find it funny that all of our problems that people are clamoring about, whether it be health care, social security, other social safety net programs, education, the wealth gap, etc, have ALL, been caused by the government.

    I have no solutions. I may excel in quantifying statistical data to support arguments and also excel at researching certain things and translating them to English, and every non-biased source I can come across really points to the government.

    @52520Andrew is absolutely correct. A moderate would be best for the country right now, but we haven't had a real moderate since JFK. Some will say Reagan and Clinton, and I agree with most people that they have been the two best Presidents the country has had since the 1980s based off of all the data(with H.W Bush being underrated, and Bush's second term is possibly the worst of any modern President). Reagan and Clinton knew how to reach across the aisle though, which was undoubtedly their greatest strength. They got stuff done.

    There's a couple of things here that have led to this entire downfall. There's a couple of solutions that should be able to fix the country, and it's up to the people. The government should not have to do everything.

    1. It all starts with education for me. The previous two generations have been miseducated. It's the result of a lot of regulations from the government and the fact that intelligence isn't promoted in some cases but demeaned. As a current university student, I constantly get told, despite the fact that I have a good, well-paying job(in the long run) lined up for me after I graduate, that my major is "useless" (political science and business) and I should go STEM. The thing is, I like STEM, tech is the future, but just because your degree isn't STEM, doesn't mean your degree is useless. Believe me, useless degrees do exist(please explain to me what a gender studies major can go do besides be a gender studies professor, which starts a never-ending cycle of BS). People need to be encouraged to pursue sciences, and we need to go back to intellectualism. Being smart shouldn't be demeaned because a lot of people have different types of intelligence, whether it be scientific, or social, etc.

    The government is a great example. I find it hilarious that so many people debate certain political issues having formerly worked for it. So many people have a schoolhouse rock idea of how the government works, and they think that the government is a complicated beast. It's not hard to understand, but you have to understand that it's really hard to get things done.

    The modern AMERICAN college has a couple of good ideas, but they're implimenting it horribly. There are certain subjects that should be mandatory in my eyes.

    -Micro/Macroeconomics(teach people how the market itself works, and how taxes work, etc, etc)
    -Intro American Politics(seriously, this should be mandatory, most people don't get it. The President isn't nearly as powerful as most think he is on a domestic scale. He's just a national embarrassment with his twitter account)
    -Basic/Advance Writing and RHETORIC(I cannot stress the last part enough. The last part will teach people how to evaluate a news source so they can form their own opinions)
    -Intro to computer science/data analytics
    -American history(history is doomed to repeat itself if one never learns, see WW2, Vietnam, and the repeat of Vietnam, Iraq)
    -An introductory math course(which is)
    -Basic finance(which will teach people how to budget, etc. This class alone will solve a lot of problems)

    Study what you want, yes, but people need to learn the foundations for how the system works before they enter it. Too many people are ignorant.

    If I'm a computer science major, I should not have to take biology is my point. It's not gonna help me in the long-run. If it's interesting to me, I should take it as an elective. I should not have to take a gender politics class.

    2. Secondly, with regards to education. The education system needs to stop patronizing us. I'm a political science major first, and you wouldn't believe how many of my classes here are useless opinions and talking points. This is guilty for the left and the right. Because college is painted as the end all be all, these kids are told what to think rather than how to think. This may not seem bad, you're in college, you're supposed to make stupid decisions(and believe me, I have), but this has screwed over the Millenials and it's about to screw over Gen Z. Schools should teach people how to think for themselves, not what to think.

    3. I cannot stress this part enough. Encourage the growth of small businesses, and lay back on certain regulations. Yes, the banks screw them. You know why. Government has regulations. Now, without government intervention, the banks would still have rules. You'd need to have good credit, so on and so forth, I understand that, there's a lot of risk there. Most small businesses fail(the ones who come back a second and/or third times tend to succeed though. Yoda's right, the greatest teacher tends to be failure), but they open up a job market and help expand the middle class and they provide opportunity. Risky? Yes. Very. Hilariously risky. But too many are deterred from even starting one. Make it easier for them, and in the long-run the middle class will likely grow, which is the first step in a long-plan to solve the economic crisis.

    4. This is where the fiscal conservative in me comes out. Continue to cut back on regulations on bigger businesses. Now I understand that certain regulations need to exist, I'm a moderate, not a libertarian. Anti-corruption ones, anti-discriminatory ones. Fine. I get that. The media has painted a picture that most of the CEOs will put the extra earnings in their pocket, which is simply untrue. Those CEOs that do that go to jail, because the SEC is good enough to catch most of them, and they go to jail for fraud. Their salaries do go up, but that's because most of them have stock options in the company, and the company is able to use this money to invest more(which usually creates more jobs in it of itself), or to expand(which usually creates more jobs). Now it shouldn't be too drastic, the current right wants to cut regulations entirely, which will cause the U.S to go full capitlist... Which would cause our economy to collapse in on itself(capitalism isn't perfect, though it is the best system, which goes back to responsible capitalism. Our government focuses on enforcing the wrong regulations. That's my issue).

    5. Going back to thinking for themselves. America needs to be vocal with the governmental issues we do have. And do so objectively. I worked for a legislator, every phone call that comes in is a bad one. Yelling at your Congressman/woman is not productive. Encourage a dialogue, and remind these people that they serve the public, not the other way around.

    Example. There's roughly 50 or so bipartisan supported health care bills that have been stashed away. These bills would fix a lot of the problem the health care system has. They have bipartisan support. They provide a reasonable solution where the government and private enterprise can co-exist. Nothing. The people in the government who think they're hot shit are ruining it for us all. They really need to educate themselves on who they're voting for beyond basic party lines. There are democrats who are insane yes, see AOC, Maxine Waters, Kamala Harris, etc, but there are also democrats who I like (Michael Bennet, Amy Klobuchar, Jared Polis). Same goes for republicans. It's the same.

    Too many voters vote on party lines and generic platitudes. There are a lot of good solutions proposed by both sides that are flat-out ignored because the extremists in the office are power-hungry, and/or less-informed constituents force their elected officials to vote for something else.

    6. Term limits need to be implemented. Career politicians are part of the downfall. Self-explanatory. The 22nd amendment wasn't passed because FDR was a democrat, most republicans liked FDR, and history has proven that he along with his successor were two of the top ten Presidents this country has ever had. A lot can change in 10 years. The world is radically different than it was 5 years ago. Having some of these guys be there for life, puts people in office who are senile(see Diane Feinstein, who is in her 80s, and is in the old woman yells at cloud phase of her political career), or people who are from a different era who only get reelected due to incumbency advantage.

    TLDR: Miseducation is a problem. People need to learn how to think for themselves and evaluate sources. Big time regulations have proven in the past to kill economies, promote innovation, promote intelligence and intellectualism, and term limits.

    This has to be done BY THE PEOPLE. Through voting, and proactivity. It won't be easy, but nothing in life worth having is easy. Nothing good comes to people who haven't sacrificed something, whether it be time, money, both.

    You can disagree with me all you want. That's your prerogative, but I'm calling it as I see it. This country is miseducated, sometimes lazy, arrogant, complacent, and too many people don't know that they can fix these problems.

    We need to cut the crap and start holding the people in charge accountable, but we also need to take the bull by the horns and be proactive.
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  6. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer Suspended

    This is what happens when you have career politicians. Mix them with corrupt businessmen and you have a broken system.

    I feel bad for lobbyists. Extremely corrupt lobbyists like the NRA give the entire profession a bad name in the same way that money-hungry lawyers do, or the same way that corrupt cops ruin public perception for everyone. Most lobbyists are former legislative staffers or legislators themselves that went to the private sector for a better payday, or they went to the private sector after they left the office. Most of them are INTEGRAL in writing legislation that actually passes and have been for decades, and most of them are not bad.

    For example, a lot republicans actually wanted to distance themselves from the NRA because they've become radical(I agree with this). The NRA threatened to run candidates against them, and since they have a hilarious amount of money, the NRA could single-handedly fund and advertise for them and out-budget most of these politicians even if they pull from their personal wealth(unless your name is Richard Blumenthal or John Hoeven... In which case you have $50 million + in the bank).

    Lack of term limits + corrupt businesses = never-ending cycle. Welcome to politics. It's the same in Europe too btw.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

    Yeah no way they would get through primaries, I do think we are at a point though where these parties are going to continue going towards the edge. When Dems get in power(2020 or 2024) they can now justify a bunch of things and then Republicans will complain and the bar gets lowered even more.
  8. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

    Yeah the government is supposed to be a check against that stuff but it doesn't help when they can easily be bought

    Oh also
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  9. Inqui

    Inqui Veteran

    It's not bribery if you call it lobbying.
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  10. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer Suspended

    I'll pay you $4,000,000 if you keep this on the hush hush-NRA
  11. Willbacker

    Willbacker Pro Bowler

    Everything you said about education ( useless degrees and needless classes ) is spot on imo. Term limits are a must. 12 yrs should be enough to make an imprint. I include the judicial branch on this. Enough of these lifetime appointments.

    The best part is yes the govt has caused thru legislation the massive problems we've faced today. More govt to fix govt failures? Hell to the no!!
  12. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran


    I am not going to say who, but someone has been saying this over and over

  13. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer Suspended

    That Jon Bon Jovi is a real hero man.
  14. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

    Yeah I say this as a STEM major who is doing well but people overrate STEM in a lot of cases. If you take the average earnings by major then maybe yes STEM is the better area to get into. But the thing is there is no one out there who is average at every single subject. There may be more economic opportunity for STEM majors but if you are a great political science student and know you wouldn't do well in STEM, then go for the political science. Or maybe college isn't right for you and you want to get into a trade school or the military.

    Regardless, go in and bust your ass and have some sort of plan in place for your career. For college kids, internships help a lot and a good GPA will do a lot of good. I didn't get an internship but I got lucky. The economy is good right now and even if we get a recession I don't see it being like 2008 again unless things really go downhill.

    One more general thing that people should know more about is statistics. The way the media manipulates statistics these days, it is important for people to be able to see what is going on. Nice link on misleading graphs below


    Also agreed that we need to start trusting scientists over politicians
  15. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

  16. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran

    Here is another example about what I mean by being responsible.

    When I was a kid my first job was at a Wendys that was not corporate owned. The owner had about 4 of these stores in the area. When I first started everyone could communicate with customers who ran the cash register and also received .25 cent increases every 6 months or so after an evaluation.

    As time went on, they started to hire people who could barely speak English to run the registers. I never understood the logic and questioned upper management about it. Was it because they were the only ones who were applying? Back then everyone applied in person, so when I looked to see who was coming in I found that we had a healthy mix of people.

    People qualified to do the job, as simple as it is, were purposely looked over because they would be the ones to ask for raises etc etc. I spent about 2-3 years working at Wendys to verify that. They would bring people who could barely speak English and had them work the registers and longer hours than normal. They would never ask for a raise and customer service suffered in the long run.

    I had a manager tell me that bringing someone aboard with a degree AT A WENDYS MIND YOU could be problematic because they may leave because of the pay and would want to move up.

    This was my first taste of a company cutting from the bottom for more profits and hiring people that they could take advantage of and paying them less/working them more hours
  17. JO_75

    JO_75 Ravens Ring of Honor

    LMAO. On Twitter people are calling Trump a racist for telling a few Democrats to go back where they came from and fix their country. One picture on Twitter from The Daily Beast: "Trump Is A Racist. If you still support him, you are too."

    That sentence right there is every bit of what is wrong with our country today. I don't support any candidate, I want the country to be better as a whole no matter who is in charge but to lump people together and call people names(the very same thing Dems got on Trump about when he was name calling) is ridiculous. Who all wants to run as Independents next year and fix this country?
  18. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    but that statement was racist: he basically referred to women of colour as foreign and non-american despite all of them being american

    literally nothing controversial about calling his statements racist...
  19. Willbacker

    Willbacker Pro Bowler

    Well you can see the major fight we're having with immigration and a lot of this is being spearheaded by businesses that want that cheap labor. There's a whole shitload of money in these operations. I'm not getting only on Dems about this cuz the Koch Bros ( big republican contributers but also anti-trumpers ) are perhaps the biggest. Really almost makes me believe there is an illuminati over here causing chaos. Sadly its all just plain damn greed.

    Here's an article that shows its not only blue collar lower level jobs with visas but white collar jobs now too seeing the impact. Its a Breitbart article but I couldn't find anything from the "real news " on this subject. I don't know much about white collar jobs but there sure is a lot of Indian and Asian influence in healthcare.
  20. Willbacker

    Willbacker Pro Bowler

    Maybe he's also wondering why they migrated here. You know since its such a terrible racist country and all. Its really not fair they can say anything they damn want but oh lord don't say anything about them.

    #Dems Can Say and Do Anything.
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