The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Willbacker]

Congratulations on sharing a video with cherry picked quotes. If you'd like to play this game, I could cherry pick quotes from conservatives endorsing a child molester.

Cherry picked quotes don't dispute the fact that the tax plan is mediocre as shit. It's literally less popular than the federal bank bailout. The only legislation less popular was the GOP's skinny repeal of ACA. Congrats on defending that shitpile of a bill. Seriously, this tax bill gives tax breaks for jet owners but takes away tax breaks for teachers that buy school supplies. For fuck sake. Fuck the GOP.

No that video was a statement that a lot of liberals don't know what the fuck they're talking about. All they know is what they're told not to like by liberal college academia.

You want equality . Flat tax. No deductions.

 

[rossihunter2]

You're crazy if you think antifa was peacefully protesting. That's a 100% ridiculous statement. Are you an antifa sympathizer??



He waited for the facts unlike Obama and rightfully so criticized both sides. Trump doesn't say anything cuz he's shamed into it. He also said "there were some fine people on both sides" and yes there were history buffs down there protesting the removal of the statues that were not part of the racists.

nope - nope - nope --> at what point are white supremacists ever fine people or worthy of having the facts waited on - the fact that they are white supremacists is enough to condemn them... trump didnt need to wait for the facts to know that a white supremacist had drive unprovoked into a crowd of protesters (not all of whom were part of antifa by any accounts but virtually all of whom are anti-fascist by their very nature) who were peacefully protesting the white supremacist protest

and i wouldnt say trump was right to criticise both sides given that the only violence, outside of one guy who punched a reporter recording the car crash victim, was perpetrated by the fascists - i mean the white supremacists literally came bearing so many guns and ammunition that the police had to pull out and the group of peaceful clergymen and academics etc. who linked arms in front of the fascists ended up requiring the support of between 300-350 anti-fascists in order to prevent these counter-protesters from getting "crushed like cockroaches"

there are also no reports/evidence of any historians that were protesting the removal of the statues - the debate of how you can remember history without celebrating people who's ideals are now reprehensible has been a subject in academia for almost a decade before the decisions to take down the statues even occurred

 

[rossihunter2]

No that video was a statement that a lot of liberals don't know what the fuck they're talking about. All they know is what they're told not to like by liberal college academia.

You want equality . Flat tax. No deductions.

so you think equality is a society with no social mobility where everybody stays in their lane for their entire life which is entirely dependent on the situation of the socio-economic conditions of their birth and their race...

a flat tax keeps the poor down because they have to take more risk to make more money - and add-on taxes like sales tax proportionally affect lower-income earners than higher income earners - if a poor person fails at their risk-taking they have no safety net to keep them alive - and if the government isnt keeping citizens alive then it's not a government worthy of existing

you might as well call a flat tax a regressive tax because it keeps the poor poor and the rich rich - it encourages the separation of classes and reduces the principles of meritocracy

that's not equal...

and to say that video (featuring all of 10 whole cherry picked students) suggests a lot of liberals dont know what they're talking about is like pointing at you and saying a lot of republicans, conservatives and trump don't know what they are talking about and that all they know is what they're told by fox news and breitbart (wait a second...)

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Trump did not fail to condemn the white supremacists. #Fake News. Really you've never heard him condemn white supremacists? He's done it several times. The problem is he also blamed BLM and Antifa like he should have but I guess that upset you since he didn't just blame the racists.

I do blame Obama for the race riots since he judged before he received facts in several incidences involving police but I highly agree with you ( you might want to bookmark that lol ) on social media being a main factor in getting riots organized.

Where did he condemn them after Charlottesville? I seem to remember it taking several days for him to speak out and hearing, "There were good people on both sides." It doesn't upset me that he blames BLM or Antifa. I think it's misplaced, but the aforementioned quote and quotes of similar nature are what bother me.

Like I said, unfortunately we live in a day and age where police aren't really held fully accountable. Think of them like an NFL ref. It doesn't matter that the general public absolutely loathes them 99% of the time (side note, I'd say 90%+ of cops are good people with good intentions) and we have video to show poor calls that they make, but somehow, someway, the NFL supports them every step of the way and says they never get it wrong.

 

[rossihunter2]

Like I said, unfortunately we live in a day and age where police aren't really held fully accountable. Think of them like an NFL ref. It doesn't matter that the general public absolutely loathes them 99% of the time (side note, I'd say 90%+ of cops are good people with good intentions) and we have video to show poor calls that they make, but somehow, someway, the NFL supports them every step of the way and says they never get it wrong.

exactly - which naturally makes the viewer angry - because 1 mistake can be catastrophic

 

[Willbacker]

nope - nope - nope --> at what point are white supremacists ever fine people or worthy of having the facts waited on - the fact that they are white supremacists is enough to condemn them... trump didnt need to wait for the facts to know that a white supremacist had drive unprovoked into a crowd of protesters (not all of whom were part of antifa by any accounts but virtually all of whom are anti-fascist by their very nature) who were peacefully protesting the white supremacist protest

and i wouldnt say trump was right to criticise both sides given that the only violence, outside of one guy who punched a reporter recording the car crash victim, was perpetrated by the fascists - i mean the white supremacists literally came bearing so many guns and ammunition that the police had to pull out and the group of peaceful clergymen and academics etc. who linked arms in front of the fascists ended up requiring the support of between 300-350 anti-fascists in order to prevent these counter-protesters from getting "crushed like cockroaches"

there are also no reports/evidence of any historians that were protesting the removal of the statues - the debate of how you can remember history without celebrating people who's ideals are now reprehensible has been a subject in academia for almost a decade before the decisions to take down the statues even occurred

Yes we all agree the guy that drove the car was a sicko and should be executed imo. We both also agree white supremacists are evil but they did secure proper permits for their march and why you keep saying the other side was protesting peacefully is beyond me. Yes the white supremacists were armed and had shields but they knew antifa was going to be there who always come armed and looking for a fight. THEY ARE BOTH AT FAULT!! Antifa is a major piece of shit outfit. I showed this vid before and don't tell me that both sides weren't looking to fight.



Its reprehensible to have slaves but life was way different from what we know today and just to say that all people that fought for the south are worthless. Problem is you think all slaves were treated horribly. Far from the case.

 

[Willbacker]

Where did he condemn them after Charlottesville? I seem to remember it taking several days for him to speak out and hearing, "There were good people on both sides." It doesn't upset me that he blames BLM or Antifa. I think it's misplaced, but the aforementioned quote and quotes of similar nature are what bother me.

Like I said, unfortunately we live in a day and age where police aren't really held fully accountable. Think of them like an NFL ref. It doesn't matter that the general public absolutely loathes them 99% of the time (side note, I'd say 90%+ of cops are good people with good intentions) and we have video to show poor calls that they make, but somehow, someway, the NFL supports them every step of the way and says they never get it wrong.

He said it the very next day I believe or the day after but it was very soon and he had condemned white supremacy before Charlottesville even happened.

 

[Willbacker]

so you think equality is a society with no social mobility where everybody stays in their lane for their entire life which is entirely dependent on the situation of the socio-economic conditions of their birth and their race...

a flat tax keeps the poor down because they have to take more risk to make more money - and add-on taxes like sales tax proportionally affect lower-income earners than higher income earners - if a poor person fails at their risk-taking they have no safety net to keep them alive - and if the government isnt keeping citizens alive then it's not a government worthy of existing

you might as well call a flat tax a regressive tax because it keeps the poor poor and the rich rich - it encourages the separation of classes and reduces the principles of meritocracy

that's not equal...

and to say that video (featuring all of 10 whole cherry picked students) suggests a lot of liberals dont know what they're talking about is like pointing at you and saying a lot of republicans, conservatives and trump don't know what they are talking about and that all they know is what they're told by fox news and breitbart (wait a second...)

If you receive govt subsidies then you must pay taxes like all the rest of us. No sorry not about free rides. Only breaks I would give to are the disabled or challenged in some sort of way where you cant work.

Sorry guys you can call them cherry picked students but I've seen a lot more evidence than this. People don't care if Trump cured cancer and gave everybody a unicorn they would still be blinded by ridiculous hatred.

 

[rossihunter2]

Its reprehensible to have slaves but life was way different from what we know today and just to say that all people that fought for the south are worthless. Problem is you think all slaves were treated horribly. Far from the case.

are you really trying to defend slavery? please tell me that's a joke right? just the fact that they were slaves means they were treated horribly and demeaned and not treated like human beings

Yes we all agree the guy that drove the car was a sicko and should be executed imo.

i disagree with this also - i dont believe in executions as punishment

We both also agree white supremacists are evil but they did secure proper permits for their march

in the uk, hate speech (and therefore racism and xenophobia) are illegal - white supremacists are evil and dont deserve to be allowed permits for anything

the idea that this was a legitimate protest as well is ridiculous given that one of the organisers described it as intended to rally white nationalist factions generally

 

[rossihunter2]

He said it the very next day I believe or the day after but it was very soon and he had condemned white supremacy before Charlottesville even happened.

well the protesters at charlottesville definitely didnt feel condemned before charlottesville given that they held their anti-muslim signs, confederate signs and swastikas right next to their trump/pence signs - while chanting anti-semitic and racist slogans...

yep they felt really condemned by trump didnt they...

 

[Willbacker]

Where did he condemn them after Charlottesville? I seem to remember it taking several days for him to speak out and hearing, "There were good people on both sides." It doesn't upset me that he blames BLM or Antifa. I think it's misplaced, but the aforementioned quote and quotes of similar nature are what bother me.

Like I said, unfortunately we live in a day and age where police aren't really held fully accountable. Think of them like an NFL ref. It doesn't matter that the general public absolutely loathes them 99% of the time (side note, I'd say 90%+ of cops are good people with good intentions) and we have video to show poor calls that they make, but somehow, someway, the NFL supports them every step of the way and says they never get it wrong.

Bird watch this video and tell me he has never condemned white supremacy. Watch the whole thing cuz I don't believe the media you watch shares this info with their viewers. Also would appreciate a response please since you do seem to be openminded.

 

[rossihunter2]

If you receive govt subsidies then you must pay taxes like all the rest of us. No sorry not about free rides. Only breaks I would give to are the disabled or challenged in some sort of way where you cant work.

Sorry guys you can call them cherry picked students but I've seen a lot more evidence than this. People don't care if Trump cured cancer and gave everybody a unicorn they would still be blinded by ridiculous hatred.

no one said not paying taxes, they just want progressive tax where those who can afford to pay more tax pay a higher proportion of tax so that there is a safety net for those who struggle to find work etc.

essentially what you are supporting is a system that doesnt help those who are born into low-income backgrounds in areas of crime etc. but helps keep them in those situations which, you guessed it, leads to more crime and poverty...

and what about the unemployed who cant get a job because there arent enough jobs?
or what about the employed people who are not being paid enough because they are being exploited?
you wouldnt want them to get any help from the government? you'd want them to pay as much tax as a wealthy person but maybe starve or not be able to live under a roof?

 

[Willbacker]

are you really trying to defend slavery? please tell me that's a joke right? just the fact that they were slaves means they were treated horribly and demeaned and not treated like human beings



i disagree with this also - i dont believe in executions as punishment



in the uk, hate speech (and therefore racism and xenophobia) are illegal - white supremacists are evil and dont deserve to be allowed permits for anything

the idea that this was a legitimate protest as well is ridiculous given that one of the organisers described it as intended to rally white nationalist factions generally

Its also very possible that they had a better life here too than back in Africa where there was constant tribal warfare which was what actually started the slave trade business and so the majority did stay where they was at. Believe they wouldn't have kept working for the same people if they was treated like you say. Sure there was some evil owners just like there is some bad cops.

Also get it in your head we are not the UK. We got rid of you guys for a reason.

 

[Willbacker]

no one said not paying taxes, they just want progressive tax where those who can afford to pay more tax pay a higher proportion of tax so that there is a safety net for those who struggle to find work etc.

essentially what you are supporting is a system that doesnt help those who are born into low-income backgrounds in areas of crime etc. but helps keep them in those situations which, you guessed it, leads to more crime and poverty...

and what about the unemployed who cant get a job because there arent enough jobs?
or what about the employed people who are not being paid enough because they are being exploited?
you wouldnt want them to get any help from the government? you'd want them to pay as much tax as a wealthy person but maybe starve or not be able to live under a roof?

Do you know the top 10% already pay 80% of our taxes while the bottom 40% pay 0. These figures might not be completely right but they damn close.

There'd be more jobs if we curb illegal immigration. Remember those jobs Americans wont do.

I also didn't say anything about stopping getting help from the govt. I said you need to pay taxes on it and you also need to jump thru some hoops like proving you are looking for a job. What you dont seem to understand is that our welfare system is seriously being abused and is overburdened by this and us as working class citizens have to continuously subsidize this. I'm really starting to believe that you cherry pick my posts and disregard a lot of stuff I say

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Bird watch this video and tell me he has never condemned white supremacy. Watch the whole thing cuz I don't believe the media you watch shares this info with their viewers. Also would appreciate a response please since you do seem to be openminded.

I don't think Trump is necessarily someone who would go out and wear a KKK uniform or openly protest against these groups, but I think he's someone who would sympathize with their causes.

I hadn't seen the 2000 David Duke video, but I am glad to see that on video. I'm glad he does share the same view as most Americans.

But like I said, the whole, "There's good people on both sides," really rubs me the wrong way. If you're a neo-Nazi or a KKK member or white supremecist, you're not a good person. No two ways about it. I think Trump may not be openly racist and actively campaign it, but with the Charlottesville protest for example, I feel like it was more of his cabinet pushing him rather than it being genuine.

 

[Willbacker]

I don't think Trump is necessarily someone who would go out and wear a KKK uniform or openly protest against these groups, but I think he's someone who would sympathize with their causes.

I hadn't seen the 2000 David Duke video, but I am glad to see that on video. I'm glad he does share the same view as most Americans.

But like I said, the whole, "There's good people on both sides," really rubs me the wrong way. If you're a neo-Nazi or a KKK member or white supremecist, you're not a good person. No two ways about it. I think Trump may not be openly racist and actively campaign it, but with the Charlottesville protest for example, I feel like it was more of his cabinet pushing him rather than it being genuine.

The only thing he might sympathize with them on is he doesn't want to see the Confederate statues coming down. I remember him saying that and he also mentioned that they'll start on other people like George Washington. Well that's happening now. When he talked about good people on both sides ( and this is the last time I'm going to say this ) he was talking about people that was there that don't want to see the statues removed but weren't part of the racists. He's not saying there are good racists. Of course some people with opposite agendas will paint that picture tho.

 

[rossihunter2]

he was talking about people that was there that don't want to see the statues removed but weren't part of the racists

they didnt exist because it was a white supremacist rally... literally was organised to unite white nationalist factions

 

[K-Dog]

He said it the very next day I believe or the day after but it was very soon and he had condemned white supremacy before Charlottesville even happened.

I read something not to long ago. Something like 92% of media companies consider themselves "progressive" or "Liberal".

Is it any wonder Trump gets so much bad press and so little good.

I really think the guy could cure cancer and be hated for putting doctors out of work.

 

[rossihunter2]

I read something not to long ago. Something like 92% of media companies consider themselves "progressive" or "Liberal".

Is it any wonder Trump gets so much bad press and so little good.

I really think the guy could cure cancer and be hated for putting doctors out of work.

he's hated and derided in the uk too but our media is most definitely conservative (albeit anti-brexit) but most definitely anti-labour (our left wing party)

i think its more that trump is an awful human being who happens to be a conservative than purely that he's a conservative

also while you may not like liberals, im not sure anyone would not want to describe themselves as progressive which is an inherently positive term

 

[K-Dog]

he's hated and derided in the uk too but our media is most definitely conservative (albeit anti-brexit) but most definitely anti-labour (our left wing party)

i think its more that trump is an awful human being who happens to be a conservative than purely that he's a conservative

also while you may not like liberals, im not sure anyone would not want to describe themselves as progressive which is an inherently positive term

"Awful human being "
For real?