The Offseason Thread

[balfan23]

I think Eric is playing the long game.

I think we finish the year with a top 15 pick unless we nail every pick in the draft and/or Tim Williams and/or Bowser breaks out. Which I don't think is a bad thing in the long run personally.

I'd use the draft to do two things

1. Build the trenches up, the most important thing you can do with a young QB by far.

2. Get him a receiving option or two.

I'd also try to extend Stanley and Pierce this year and take a good portion of their cap hits this year to ensure that next year we maximize the space we do have. Stanley has proven himself to be a franchise LT. It's been three good years, you can anoint him.

I think you may be right on Eric playing the long game. People think we want to conserve cap to be able to spend on other positions in FA for the remainder of the offseason but given Eric has stated that he wants to lock guys up early it seems likely he wants to hold off on spending big on guys like Houston who wouldn’t be in our long term plans and have money available for guys on the roster that he wants to keep long term.

Of all the guys currently on the roster that would apply to Stanley is #1 on that list ... imo by a lot.

I do think we still have a desire to win now and would put at 15 like you say if we challenge for a playoff spot but fall short. That is all going to depend on Lamar’s development. But it is reasonable to expect that he’s not going to be developed enough to allow us to really challenge the top until 2020.

 

[Dom McRaven]

Guys I'm confident about to step up next year

Willie Henry ( probably an upgrade tbh)
Tim Williams ( a hunch)
De'Shon Eliot ( when he plays)

Guys i'm iffy about

Kenny Young
Jordan Lasley

Who I'm not high on at all

Bowser
Jaleel Scott

I'd add the two TEs and Bozeman to your first list (and maybe Averett).

 

[Sandtown]

So The Ravens made some changes to their coaching staff a little bit. What really stand out to me is that David Culley would be receiving some help coaching the wide receivers from a guy name Anthony Watson. https://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches-roster/

 

[Oldfaithful]

I want us to trade Bowser to a team that would actually know how to use him. Harbaugh needs to stop fitting square pegs into round holes

 

[Simba]

I want us to trade Bowser to a team that would actually know how to use him. Harbaugh needs to stop fitting square pegs into round holes

It could be the bias since obviously I'm a huge fan of his, but I agree. I find it hard to fathom he hasn't been able to find a role with how adept in coverage he is. It's not like it's just a college thing that hasn't translated - we've seen it in the NFL early on in his rookie year. They just seem so preoccupied with making him a pass rushing threat that they're kind of overlooking what else he does. I don't think he'll ever be this consistent 10+ sack guy, but I think he can absolutely be a valuable starter at some point.

Of course, he could be sucking in practice and no player is ever going to see the field if that's the case. It's just weird to me that we've seen flashes but yet he's still been stuck on the sidelines.

 

[Oldfaithful]

It could be the bias since obviously I'm a huge fan of his, but I agree. I find it hard to fathom he hasn't been able to find a role with how adept in coverage he is. It's not like it's just a college thing that hasn't translated - we've seen it in the NFL early on in his rookie year. They just seem so preoccupied with making him a pass rushing threat that they're kind of overlooking what else he does. I don't think he'll ever be this consistent 10+ sack guy, but I think he can absolutely be a valuable starter at some point.

Of course, he could be sucking in practice and no player is ever going to see the field if that's the case. It's just weird to me that we've seen flashes but yet he's still been stuck on the sidelines.

When he is allowed to cover he's been good. Where he struggles is on the edge, but we're letting that athleticism rot on the bench. None of us should be surprised, Harbaugh has always ALWAYS done this. Paul Krueger, Art Jones, Pernell McPhee. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if both Bowser and Tim Williams break out in year four and then suddenly we can't afford to pay one of them. Happens all the time because Harbaugh wants to fit square pegs into round holes.

Him and Tim Williams are just misused here. Bowser would be great as a damn SAM backer, hell I wouldn't mind moving him to ILB full time here to replace Mosley since when he IS used as a blitzer from the inside he's effective.

Bowser is called a waste for a lack of production but if you put him on the Pats and they play him at the SAM spot he probably becomes super productive. That's a failure on Wink and especially Harbaugh.

 

[Simba]

When he is allowed to cover he's been good. Where he struggles is on the edge, but we're letting that athleticism rot on the bench. None of us should be surprised, Harbaugh has always ALWAYS done this. Paul Krueger, Art Jones, Pernell McPhee. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if both Bowser and Tim Williams break out in year four and then suddenly we can't afford to pay one of them. Happens all the time because Harbaugh wants to fit square pegs into round holes.

Him and Tim Williams are just misused here. Bowser would be great as a damn SAM backer, hell I wouldn't mind moving him to ILB full time here to replace Mosley since when he IS used as a blitzer from the inside he's effective.

Bowser is called a waste for a lack of production but if you put him on the Pats and they play him at the SAM spot he probably becomes super productive. That's a failure on Wink and especially Harbaugh.

Yeah that's kind of how I feel about Bowser. He's more of a Jamie Collins type of LBer to me. He's not a full-time edge rusher, which is fine. There are so many other things that he's shown he can do (small sample size, of course) but we just seem to want him to rush the passer and that's it.

Hopefully the Suggs and ZDS departure actually forces them to play him more. I won't sit here and say that Bowser doesn't need to improve - he does. I just think at some point, you have to let these young guys loose and see if there's anything there. It's a prime opportunity to do just that. I know that it's been hard to get them snaps behind Suggs, Judon, and ZDS, but I'm also a believer that if you invest a day 1 or day 2 pick into a player, you have to find a way to get them onto the field. It's hard for any player to show up consistently getting 10 or less snaps a game. If he and/or Williams falter, you know what you need to fix in 2020. If they do well, great, you just eliminated a 2020 need.

 

[Adreme]

Isn't the entire premise of the Ravens defense deception though? If he can only cover, then you know what he is doing and by extension where pressure could be coming from and the deception is lost.

I just find it hard to criticize personnel decisions on the defense qhen the unit was the best in the NFL and carried the team as far as a defense could. Whatever they did was clearly working and so long as it does they can keep doing more of that.

 

[Simba]

Isn't the entire premise of the Ravens defense deception though? If he can only cover, then you know what he is doing and by extension where pressure could be coming from and the deception is lost.

I just find it hard to criticize personnel decisions on the defense qhen the unit was the best in the NFL and carried the team as far as a defense could. Whatever they did was clearly working and so long as it does they can keep doing more of that.

I would argue that he's more likely to help with that deception because he does a little bit of everything. Coverage is certainly one of his strong points, but that doesn't mean that he can't rush the passer and can't hold the edge. With that being said, I certainly understand that the Suggs/Judon/ZDS trio were getting it done for this defense.

My complaint would be more 2017 where we had no semblance of a pass rush for significant periods of that season. Different system of course, but I'm just a believer in taking off the kid gloves and seeing what you have in those types of situations.

And with all of this being said, I genuinely believe that if Bowser hadn't been injured in camp last year, he would have been a bigger part of the rotation.

 

[redrum52]

It could be the bias since obviously I'm a huge fan of his, but I agree. I find it hard to fathom he hasn't been able to find a role with how adept in coverage he is. It's not like it's just a college thing that hasn't translated - we've seen it in the NFL early on in his rookie year. They just seem so preoccupied with making him a pass rushing threat that they're kind of overlooking what else he does. I don't think he'll ever be this consistent 10+ sack guy, but I think he can absolutely be a valuable starter at some point.

Of course, he could be sucking in practice and no player is ever going to see the field if that's the case. It's just weird to me that we've seen flashes but yet he's still been stuck on the sidelines.

Or when we have a pass rushing specialist we try to force onto the field on rushing downs... I don't get some of these dumb ass coaching decisions with personnel. People show ability at what they SHOULD have been drafted for and seemed to played to their weakness.

 

[Simba]

Or when we have a pass rushing specialist we try to force onto the field on rushing downs... I don't get some of these dumb ass coaching decisions with personnel. People show ability at what they SHOULD have been drafted for and seemed to played to their weakness.

We definitely had a long run where we were drafting guys to fit into what we wanted, not into what they do best. The thing that gives me some hope for a guys like Bowser, among others, is that Wink really did well in putting guys in the best position to exceed last year. The change from Pees paid bigger dividends than I ever would have expected.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Or when we have a pass rushing specialist we try to force onto the field on rushing downs... I don't get some of these dumb ass coaching decisions with personnel. People show ability at what they SHOULD have been drafted for and seemed to played to their weakness.

The Seahawks were blasted for drafting Bruce Irvin as high as they did because he couldn’t be a 3 down defender against the run, so what did they do?... basically started the craze of the designated edge rusher and he became a hell of an edge rusher at that, fresh legs and pinning his ears back and getting to the qb, let him do what he does best.

We get a great value of an edge rusher in Tim Williams in 2017, everyone applauds it, and what do we do? Make him set the edge and take coverage snaps in game and 2 years in he’s onky got 2 sacks.

We do the dumbest goddamn shit imaginable with defensive talent

 

[Josepho]

Tyus Bowser has had over 20 defensive snaps in two games ever with the Ravens. Week 2 vs. Cleveland in 2017 and Week 13 at Pittsburgh in 2017.

Had a sack in both and a big interception in the game against Cleveland.

He really hasn't been given enough of a chance to succeed otherwise.

 

[Simba]

The Seahawks were blasted for drafting Bruce Irvin as high as they did because he couldn’t be a 3 down defender against the run, so what did they do?... basically started the craze of the designated edge rusher and he became a hell of an edge rusher at that, fresh legs and pinning his ears back and getting to the qb, let him do what he does best.

We get a great value of an edge rusher in Tim Williams in 2017, everyone applauds it, and what do we do? Make him set the edge and take coverage snaps in game and 2 years in he’s onky got 2 sacks.

We do the dumbest goddamn shit imaginable with defensive talent

There's definitely long been this insistence on every player we draft becoming a complete player. Sometimes, you just let a guy do what he does best. I'm all about trying to get players to develop into complete players, but I don't think they need to sit on the sidelines while they do that. Let them do what they do best and whatever you can add over the life of that contract is a bonus.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

There's definitely long been this insistence on every player we draft becoming a complete player. Sometimes, you just let a guy do what he does best. I'm all about trying to get players to develop into complete players, but I don't think they need to sit on the sidelines while they do that. Let them do what they do best and whatever you can add over the life of that contract is a bonus.

thats a harbaugh thing man, we had no problem letting suggs and boulware and ngata do their thing while they developed into complete players, why cant we just let edge rushers get to the qb without making them a healthy scratch because they arent quality run stuffers... its just crazy how an average but sound run stuffer who cant rush the passer can consistently make our gameday roster, but a talented pass rusher cant.

 

[rossihunter2]

The Seahawks were blasted for drafting Bruce Irvin as high as they did because he couldn’t be a 3 down defender against the run, so what did they do?... basically started the craze of the designated edge rusher and he became a hell of an edge rusher at that, fresh legs and pinning his ears back and getting to the qb, let him do what he does best.

We get a great value of an edge rusher in Tim Williams in 2017, everyone applauds it, and what do we do? Make him set the edge and take coverage snaps in game and 2 years in he’s onky got 2 sacks.

We do the dumbest goddamn shit imaginable with defensive talent

tbf timmy started this 2nd year maybe as our 2nd best edge defender vs the run - at least to start the season form-wise
and on top of that he started with 2 sacks in his first 4 games which is pretty tidy

i have no issue with how we've dealt with timmy - clearly the injury set him back both physically and mentally and its more on him to get this right during his off time than the coaching staff - i really want him to pull through because he's shown a huge amount of ability already vs pro-OL but he has to get on the field (and on the gameday actives list) and if and when he does he'll get opportunities - the coaching staff obviously see a huge talent there and now with the exodus at linebacker there's more snaps to go around

you could argue timmy should have seen more snaps as a rookie and id agree - especially with how basically non-existent our pass rush was in 2017

 

[JoeyFlex5]

tbf timmy started this 2nd year maybe as our 2nd best edge defender vs the run - at least to start the season form-wise
and on top of that he started with 2 sacks in his first 4 games which is pretty tidy

i have no issue with how we've dealt with timmy - clearly the injury set him back both physically and mentally and its more on him to get this right during his off time than the coaching staff - i really want him to pull through because he's shown a huge amount of ability already vs pro-OL but he has to get on the field (and on the gameday actives list) and if and when he does he'll get opportunities - the coaching staff obviously see a huge talent there and now with the exodus at linebacker there's more snaps to go around

you could argue timmy should have seen more snaps as a rookie and id agree - especially with how basically non-existent our pass rush was in 2017

I did think Tim’s usage was more logical in 2018, and he was really good as a run defender, I just hate how rarely he was used to rush as a rookie when he was getting pressure in his rare opportunities. But tyus bowser I just can’t understand

 

[Willbacker]

I did think Tim’s usage was more logical in 2018, and he was really good as a run defender, I just hate how rarely he was used to rush as a rookie when he was getting pressure in his rare opportunities. But tyus bowser I just can’t understand

How could you player Bowser on pass defense when we needed CJ out there to line everybody up?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

How could you player Bowser on pass defense when we needed CJ out there to line everybody up?

they dont play the same position...

bowser needs to be a SAM. suggs wouldve been the jack/joker w/e you wanna call it, then youd have mosley with peanut/young at ilb, and bowser would be the SAM, occasionally off the ball, occasionally on the edge, occasionally hand in the dirt, he should be tasked with handling TEs, covering screens, covering flats, blitzing, and occasionally rushing, hes a multiple look defender but is used as a last resort edge rusher.

 

[Willbacker]

they dont play the same position...

bowser needs to be a SAM. suggs wouldve been the jack/joker w/e you wanna call it, then youd have mosley with peanut/young at ilb, and bowser would be the SAM, occasionally off the ball, occasionally on the edge, occasionally hand in the dirt, he should be tasked with handling TEs, covering screens, covering flats, blitzing, and occasionally rushing, hes a multiple look defender but is used as a last resort edge rusher.

I was just joking around but still in some situations I thought CJ should have been off the field in some obvious passing situations. Everybody was saying we cant lose him cuz who's gonna line people up. Bowser has SAM written all over him. His forte was supposed to be coverage when we drafted him and then all he does is sit on the bench on 3rd and longs. Him and Tim Williams are both musts to step forward if we want to maintain a top 5 D. 2nd and 3rd rd picks...………….