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The Offseason Thread

Willbacker said:
He never dropped out of the rush bro. Seriously. He was stonewalled. I'll stand by my claims that he's terrible on pass defense and is an average blitzer at best. Don't get me wrong that play was bigtime. We were lucky he was stonewalled if you'd like to look at it that way.



I don't think he's top 5. Kuechly,Wagner,the 2 Dallas ILB's. Hell I even liked that guy from the Rams. I'd have to look thru every roster since I'm not as good at personel as I used to be.



My whole thoughts on CJ was the last post on pg 33. All 3 of you guys probally missed it but I'd let the market determine CJ's value. On replacing him lets see if anybody gets released. All the options are not on the table yet.
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if the market determines CJ's value then we're much less likely to retain him at a decent price...

And btw you're absolutely blind if you didn't see CJ bail once he realised he couldn't get to the QB - he dropped into the hot route passing lane and watched the QB's eyes knowing that it was an all-out blitz - so he got stonewalled - but he was part of an overload blitz so he knew he didn't have to get home he just had to occupy an OL if he couldn't and in the end he both occupied a lineman and dropped into the passing lane

and with regards to top 5 CJ is clearly top 5 - id say he's probably number 3 in the league - there's some promising guys on rookie contracts but you pretty tough to say they're ahead of mosley after 1 year and even then of the young guys in the league i think the only arguments you can make would be LVE and Darius Leonard who were both rookies

and if you count - then that's still top 5...

his year as a blitzer in 2018 was disappointing but his previous 4 seasons he's been a good blitzer and everyone seems to have this nonsensical opinion that he's a bad pass defender pretending they watch him every down when in fact they only notice plays like the Tyreek Hill miracle ball from Pat Mahomes and extrapolate and assume CJ's bad in pass defence - which is not the case - if he was bad as a pass defender he would not be a 3 down starter in the league let alone pro-bowl/all-pro every year

there's a reason why sizzle and the vets called this guy half-man-half-amazing since his rookie training camp
 
Deebo813 said:
I forgot those other guys all got 50+... yea mosley def gonna get like 58 maybe 60
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i dont think CJ's getting 50+ mostly because i dont think he wants a contract that long
you're gonna have to specify a yearly avg because with the CBA coming up players want shorter contracts so its not about the total money it's all about the guaranteed money and the yearly average

the numbers to remember are not 50+ they are 10.75/yr and 12.35/yr which are wagner and kuechly respectively
 
rossihunter2 said:
um wat?

you think pierce is getting 15 a year?
+ the cap hits on the first year of the deal are not gonna be as high as the per year average because that's the nature of not having fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL plus an ever increasing cap size

so straight up they wont eat that 60m - also we will be making cuts etc. this year that will impact cap space next year (as well as cap cuts next year too)

i mean we're legit gonna have more cap than we've maybe ever had as an organisation next year - why are people worried that we'll spend a chunk of it retaining our best players? what else is it for?
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I would expect Pierce to shatter what BWill got, and also that those contracts would frontload to take advantage of the cheap Lamar years + to be ready to pay mext market resetters (Humphrey is another who will probably get a near record or record deal in 2 years).

I'm not worried about using it to keep players, I'm worried what those incoming expenses (I also forgot possibly Urban), mean for potential to sign a big name FA such as the people who want the Ravens to go after Bell.
 
Adreme said:
I would expect Pierce to shatter what BWill got, and also that those contracts would frontload to take advantage of the cheap Lamar years + to be ready to pay mext market resetters (Humphrey is another who will probably get a near record or record deal in 2 years).

I'm not worried about using it to keep players, I'm worried what those incoming expenses (I also forgot possibly Urban), mean for potential to sign a big name FA such as the people who want the Ravens to go after Bell.
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Very rarely are contracts frontloaded so I doubt that would happen. Urban won’t cost much if we intend to keep him. I’m more a fan of contracts being level of a little escalation to keep pass with the increasing cap. That being said it wouldn’t bother me to frontload a contract starting next season depending on what our final cap amount will be.
 
rossihunter2 said:
um wat?

you think pierce is getting 15 a year?
+ the cap hits on the first year of the deal are not gonna be as high as the per year average because that's the nature of not having fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL plus an ever increasing cap size

so straight up they wont eat that 60m - also we will be making cuts etc. this year that will impact cap space next year (as well as cap cuts next year too)

i mean we're legit gonna have more cap than we've maybe ever had as an organisation next year - why are people worried that we'll spend a chunk of it retaining our best players? what else is it for?
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Other teams best players?
 
rossihunter2 said:
um wat?

you think pierce is getting 15 a year?
+ the cap hits on the first year of the deal are not gonna be as high as the per year average because that's the nature of not having fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL plus an ever increasing cap size

so straight up they wont eat that 60m - also we will be making cuts etc. this year that will impact cap space next year (as well as cap cuts next year too)

i mean we're legit gonna have more cap than we've maybe ever had as an organisation next year - why are people worried that we'll spend a chunk of it retaining our best players? what else is it for?
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Thank you
 
Adreme said:
I would expect Pierce to shatter what BWill got, and also that those contracts would frontload to take advantage of the cheap Lamar years + to be ready to pay mext market resetters (Humphrey is another who will probably get a near record or record deal in 2 years).

I'm not worried about using it to keep players, I'm worried what those incoming expenses (I also forgot possibly Urban), mean for potential to sign a big name FA such as the people who want the Ravens to go after Bell.
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but the salary cap increases every year so frontloading doesnt actually help you in the long term - it helps you out for a couple of years but you basically create more problems because you're paying your players more when the money is fully-guaranteed rather than paying them more when they're cuttable and therefore you can recoup savings if the player underperforms

and you will struggle to find a team with that much cap space that actually ends up being able to spend it all

and pierce wont set the market - if he's really lucky he gets malik jackson or jurell casey money which i suppose is 15 but that is the absolute maximum asking price - and im not sure he'd get near that on the open market so i doubt it and that would blow brandon's deal out of the water obviously but most likely he shatters b will's deal and still ends up with 13m/yr max - timmy jernigan type money

and surely if we want to take advantage of the lamar cheap years then we backload everything because we can pay more great players more money... if that's how we truly thought as a franchise but we value longevity and not mortgaging the future so we wont do that - but we certainly wont be frontloading any deals
 
redrum52 said:
Other teams best players?
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other team's best players dont hit the open market because they pay them when they have the space for them
the only way to acquire another team's best players is to hope they're shedding cap space (in which case they're likely old) or to trade for them (which likely means a hell of a lot of draft capital

pay your own guys and then find complementary pieces - building through free agent cast offs is how the dolphins end up in perennial purgatory
 
RavensMania said:
Very rarely are contracts frontloaded so I doubt that would happen. Urban won’t cost much if we intend to keep him. I’m more a fan of contracts being level of a little escalation to keep pass with the increasing cap. That being said it wouldn’t bother me to frontload a contract starting next season depending on what our final cap amount will be.
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One of the things that both the Rams generally do and the 49ers did with Jimmy G is try to use there high cap space to frontload the high cap hits and guaranteed dollars so that especially in the Rams case the signing bonus is paid out after the first 2 years so that if you decide to move on there are not real negatives in terms of dead money. I kind of think a case like that could help with avoiding these situations where a player just has so much dead money that they drag the team down even after being cut

Ill use Tucker for instance. Lets pretend (because I like round numbers) that he signs a 4 year 30 million dollar deal (I said pretend) with an 8m signing bonus. If they let 5 million be a year 1 singing bonus and 3m be year 2 then both hits years 3 and 4 will be really low and if you decide he isnt worth it anymore (i said pretend) you can move on easily with no dead money issues dragging the team down without feeling like you are the Broncos paying 29M in cap hit after they likely cut Keenum just for the starting QB.
 
Adreme said:
One of the things that both the Rams generally do and the 49ers did with Jimmy G is try to use there high cap space to frontload the high cap hits and guaranteed dollars so that especially in the Rams case the signing bonus is paid out after the first 2 years so that if you decide to move on there are not real negatives in terms of dead money. I kind of think a case like that could help with avoiding these situations where a player just has so much dead money that they drag the team down even after being cut

Ill use Tucker for instance. Lets pretend (because I like round numbers) that he signs a 4 year 30 million dollar deal (I said pretend) with an 8m signing bonus. If they let 5 million be a year 1 singing bonus and 3m be year 2 then both hits years 3 and 4 will be really low and if you decide he isnt worth it anymore (i said pretend) you can move on easily with no dead money issues dragging the team down without feeling like you are the Broncos paying 29M in cap hit after they likely cut Keenum just for the starting QB.
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The signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract. In many cases you have another signing bonus paid in yr 2, but again this gets spread out over the life of the remaining contract,

In regards to Garoppolo, he had a very low signing bonus ($7m). Much of his guarantees was his base salary in the first couple years ans roster bonus. He did this in exchange of getting the total dollar amount due to only starting about 5 or 6 games in ththe NFL. Not many players or agents would take that type of team friendly contract.
 
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RavensMania said:
The signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract
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I get that most GMs do that but I was referring to how I was watching a video about differing GM styles a few months back and was fascinated with how the Rams like to frontload the guaranteed dollars so that they can cut bait in the last 2 years of a contract if they need to with no dead money. I just think a style like that could prove fruitful long term (though the deals that burned the Ravens in most cases burned them really early on).
 
Here is an example

Albert Hayneswowth had a 100m contract with 40m guaranteed.

He received 9m guaranteed in the first year plus including his salary which was also guaranteed in yr one. The skins could have cut him and not been on the hook for th remaining 30m guaranteed. However once the yr two league yr had to pay him 21m roster bonus and then 9 m more in salary. If they didn’t sign the roster bonus in yr two they would have saved 30m

Stupid organization
 
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