The Random Thought Thread

[BoredMarine13]

Go figure the Pats lose Brady and then seemingly hit a jackpot with Mac Jones who has looked solid this year. Poor Jets fans , waiting patiently on Zach Wilson , watching their rivals to the North carry on business as usual winning the Division. Also i feel bad for all of us because there is no one more obnoxious than a Boston fan during a successful season.


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[QuothTheRaven]

this almost certainly means it’s gonna be blacked out on U.K. gamepass lol which is annoying

I hate the sky sports coverage SO MUCH!!!

 

[marklar]

True it would seem he’s out of their plans but also I’m pretty sure this was done like this to potentially help out our cap situation - basically gave the rest of the nfl a chance to claim his contract but they didn’t so he reverted back to I/R

just means that at that point in time the cap space was more important than the player - no guarantees that will be the same in 2022 but certainly possible

Now I'm on slightly thin ice, but doesn't the "waived" designation release him from his rookie contract so he'd be an RFA next year? In which case I see even less reason he'll be on the team next year. Anyways, not much to debate about a fringe guy, I just wanted to point out that the Ravens didn't hold him in high regard when they put him on waivers, even if it was for cap-only purposes.

 

[RavensMania]

I'm so glad we're done with prime time games for the regular season. Absolutely hate having to wait the extra time before watching it and then being too amped up to even sleep afterwards.

tell me about it

 

[RavensMania]

Now I'm on slightly thin ice, but doesn't the "waived" designation release him from his rookie contract so he'd be an RFA next year? In which case I see even less reason he'll be on the team next year. Anyways, not much to debate about a fringe guy, I just wanted to point out that the Ravens didn't hold him in high regard when they put him on waivers, even if it was for cap-only purposes.

they tried to give him away and no one wanted him.

 

[rossihunter2]

I hate the sky sports coverage SO MUCH!!!

haha it sucks - and also I’m not paying for sky just for the 3 ravens games it shows (if we’re unlucky) per year

normally just stream the sky ones

 

[rossihunter2]

Now I'm on slightly thin ice, but doesn't the "waived" designation release him from his rookie contract so he'd be an RFA next year? In which case I see even less reason he'll be on the team next year. Anyways, not much to debate about a fringe guy, I just wanted to point out that the Ravens didn't hold him in high regard when they put him on waivers, even if it was for cap-only purposes.

no I don’t think so because it’s the same contract he had that we basically get back - it’s like if we claimed him off waivers we’d get the remaining 2 years left on his contract so when he reverted to i/r after he wasn’t claimed his contract stayed the same

 

[RavensMania]

haha it sucks - and also I’m not paying for sky just for the 3 ravens games it shows (if we’re unlucky) per year

normally just stream the sky ones

any other way you can watch the game?

 

[JO_75]

I was going to ask why it couldn’t just be the SNF game but then realized I’m tired of prime time lol

They also moved 49ers-Bengals to 4:25pm on CBS in week 14. I was surprised 49ers-Bengals didn't get moved to SNF in Week 14, but they gotta keep Chicago/Green Bay in SNF I guess.

I'm cool with no more primetime games the rest of the season lol. Give me 1pm playoff times too please.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

haha it sucks - and also I’m not paying for sky just for the 3 ravens games it shows (if we’re unlucky) per year

normally just stream the sky ones

I use Sky Go off my dad's account for those games. But if we're the 9:25 then they'll probably cover most of it on redzone anyway - the 6pm blackouts are the worst ones.

But yeah, I'd like to thank Neil Reynolds for all his work growing the NFL in the UK, now fuck off out my TV, you don't have the skills or the charisma to anchor a sports broadcast.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Now I'm on slightly thin ice, but doesn't the "waived" designation release him from his rookie contract so he'd be an RFA next year? In which case I see even less reason he'll be on the team next year. Anyways, not much to debate about a fringe guy, I just wanted to point out that the Ravens didn't hold him in high regard when they put him on waivers, even if it was for cap-only purposes.

It looks to have been a procedural move. The official transaction wire has him reverting back to IR. I think its essentially because he was injured before the final cuts, we had to "release" him to make room on the 53 man roster for everybody we needed, and then placed him on IR afterwards, since nobody would claim a guy like him who won't play this year.

It's why you see the more "valuable" players, like Peters and Edwards, who got injured roughly the same time, never got "waived". They were kept on the 53 man at final cuts, and then moved to IR after the fact, so they're not subject to waivers (obviously other teams would have claimed and stashed).

 

[ravenslord]

Lamar's chances of winning with 4 picks-50 -60 % because he still can make enough plays like the incredible Andrews TD throw.
Flacco's chances of winning with 4 picks-0%

 

[QuothTheRaven]

I think we have to seriously consider the possibility that Lamar threw 4 picks on purpose so that he could break yet another NFL record.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Lamar's chances of winning with 4 picks-50 -60 % because he still can make enough plays like the incredible Andrews TD throw.
Flacco's chances of winning with 4 picks-0%

lol, I mean yeah, but this is also sort of a mirage. Like Lamar made like basically two critical plays, and the Ravens scored one whopping TD the whole game. Like there's a gigantic number of circumstances that have to go into play for you to turn the ball over 4 times, only score one offensive TD, and really pat yourself on the back as somebody who can "overcome adversity". That's not even close to the way I saw it.

I didn't see Lamar overcoming adversity. I saw the defense overcoming adversity and picking their QB up from off the mat. Nobody is going to be able to show me a lot of football games where a team forces 4 turnovers and scores three points off of them, which is what Cleveland failed did Sunday night. Like there's a large amount of ineptness on their side and great play on our side (defensively, not offensively) to make that happen.

To me, this narrative that Lamar "overcame" anything I don't think holds any weight with me. If he came back and threw for 300+ yards and like 3-4 TDs after a dreadful first half of turnovers, sure, I'll buy that narrative. He wasn't much better in the second half either. The defense just played lights out and played great situationally. They're the one's who should get all of the credit for this win. If Lamar doesn't throw one TD pass, and we lost 10-9, it changes nothing about the narrative of his performance compared to a 16-10 win. It still was one of his worst as a Raven in my opinion, and he was pretty close to a liability out there for us.

Just one game of course. Not an assessment of a season or an extended period of time. But it is what it is.

 

[rossihunter2]

It looks to have been a procedural move. The official transaction wire has him reverting back to IR. I think its essentially because he was injured before the final cuts, we had to "release" him to make room on the 53 man roster for everybody we needed, and then placed him on IR afterwards, since nobody would claim a guy like him who won't play this year.

It's why you see the more "valuable" players, like Peters and Edwards, who got injured roughly the same time, never got "waived". They were kept on the 53 man at final cuts, and then moved to IR after the fact, so they're not subject to waivers (obviously other teams would have claimed and stashed).

pretty sure peters and edwards were sent to i/r after cutdown day because they got injured after cutdown day - and even then i think it's only non-vested vets i.e. guys with 3 or fewer accrued seasons who can't go straight on i/r before cutdown day

but also hill was injured after cutdown day so would be unaffacted by any of that anyway so being designated waived/injured was purposeful rather than semantics

waived/injured means there's 3 possible outcomes:
1) they get claimed by another team (and go to their i/r)
2) you have 5 days to make an injury settlement and release them
3) they revert back to i/r

but im not even sure about the vested-vet thing anymore because dobbins went straight to I/R before the cutdown too... iman marshall, khalil dorsey also both went straight to i/r

so i think that might not be true about non-vested guys having to be waived/injured before cutdown day...

 

[RavensMania]

pretty sure peters and edwards were sent to i/r after cutdown day because they got injured after cutdown day - and even then i think it's only non-vested vets i.e. guys with 3 or fewer accrued seasons who can't go straight on i/r before cutdown day

but also hill was injured after cutdown day so would be unaffacted by any of that anyway so being designated waived/injured was purposeful rather than semantics

waived/injured means there's 3 possible outcomes:
1) they get claimed by another team (and go to their i/r)
2) you have 5 days to make an injury settlement and release them
3) they revert back to i/r

but im not even sure about the vested-vet thing anymore because dobbins went straight to I/R before the cutdown too... iman marshall, khalil dorsey also both went straight to i/r

so i think that might not be true about non-vested guys having to be waived/injured before cutdown day...

they absolutely were injured after cutdown day. It was two days before our first game. It was JK Dobbins that was a day before cutdown day.

 

[rmcjacket23]

pretty sure peters and edwards were sent to i/r after cutdown day because they got injured after cutdown day - and even then i think it's only non-vested vets i.e. guys with 3 or fewer accrued seasons who can't go straight on i/r before cutdown day

but also hill was injured after cutdown day so would be unaffacted by any of that anyway so being designated waived/injured was purposeful rather than semantics

waived/injured means there's 3 possible outcomes:
1) they get claimed by another team (and go to their i/r)
2) you have 5 days to make an injury settlement and release them
3) they revert back to i/r

but im not even sure about the vested-vet thing anymore because dobbins went straight to I/R before the cutdown too... iman marshall, khalil dorsey also both went straight to i/r

so i think that might not be true about non-vested guys having to be waived/injured before cutdown day...

Yeah I'm sure I botched the timeline.
So I did some research (should have done this the first time), and found this:
https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/waiver-rules/

I can't tell exactly how old it is, but it does reference comes of the changes made in the most recent CBA, so it should be applicable to this season. It doesn't account for COVID rules though, so my guess is its from 2018/2019.

Four designations:
1. Healthy player with < 4 years of service (non-vested veterans) are subject to waivers.
2. Healthy player with 4+ years of service (vested veterans) are NOT subject to waivers. Their release is outright and free to sign anywhere
*Note that this only applies until the trade deadline. Post-trade deadline, ALL players are subject to waivers.
3. Injured players with 4+ years of service can go directly to IR. Do not need to clear waivers.
4. Prior to 2018, injured players with < 4 years of service had to pass through waivers before reverting to IR. It sounds like in 2018 this was changed, and now nobody is required to clear waivers prior to going on IR.
*Note that any player placed on IR in the preseason, prior to final cuts to the 53 man roster, can't be designated to return. Their season is over. That's why many of the "shorter term" IR players make it on the initial 53, even if they haven't practiced in weeks or months.

I also found this, which may explain the Hill situation:
https://www.nj.com/giants/2016/09/what_does_it_mean_when_an_nfl_player_is_waivedinju.html

Basically, with a lot of these rookie deals, like Hill's, they're not guaranteed. So when Hill gets injured, depending on his contract, he's not really "entitled" to just sit on IR and collect his full salary. Teams will frequently "waive/injured" a player to open a five day window to agree on an injury settlement. If they agree, the team pays the settlement amount and the player becomes a FA. If they don't, the player reverts to IR.
I don't know if that's what happened with Hill or not, but since it appears he was "waived/injured", it basically sounds like the team was willing to let him walk for an injury settlement, but they couldn't agree to one. My guess would be the Ravens were interested in paying him less and offered him a settlement and an opportunity to join another club, but he declined.
Article even mentions that there's typically not much incentive for a player with a season-long or long-term injury to take a settlement, which makes sense here.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah I'm sure I botched the timeline.
So I did some research (should have done this the first time), and found this:
https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/waiver-rules/

I can't tell exactly how old it is, but it does reference comes of the changes made in the most recent CBA, so it should be applicable to this season. It doesn't account for COVID rules though, so my guess is its from 2018/2019.

Four designations:
1. Healthy player with < 4 years of service (non-vested veterans) are subject to waivers.
2. Healthy player with 4+ years of service (vested veterans) are NOT subject to waivers. Their release is outright and free to sign anywhere
*Note that this only applies until the trade deadline. Post-trade deadline, ALL players are subject to waivers.
3. Injured players with 4+ years of service can go directly to IR. Do not need to clear waivers.
4. Prior to 2018, injured players with < 4 years of service had to pass through waivers before reverting to IR. It sounds like in 2018 this was changed, and now nobody is required to clear waivers prior to going on IR.
*Note that any player placed on IR in the preseason, prior to final cuts to the 53 man roster, can't be designated to return. Their season is over. That's why many of the "shorter term" IR players make it on the initial 53, even if they haven't practiced in weeks or months.

I also found this, which may explain the Hill situation:
https://www.nj.com/giants/2016/09/what_does_it_mean_when_an_nfl_player_is_waivedinju.html

Basically, with a lot of these rookie deals, like Hill's, they're not guaranteed. So when Hill gets injured, depending on his contract, he's not really "entitled" to just sit on IR and collect his full salary. Teams will frequently "waive/injured" a player to open a five day window to agree on an injury settlement. If they agree, the team pays the settlement amount and the player becomes a FA. If they don't, the player reverts to IR.
I don't know if that's what happened with Hill or not, but since it appears he was "waived/injured", it basically sounds like the team was willing to let him walk for an injury settlement, but they couldn't agree to one. My guess would be the Ravens were interested in paying him less and offered him a settlement and an opportunity to join another club, but he declined.
Article even mentions that there's typically not much incentive for a player with a season-long or long-term injury to take a settlement, which makes sense here.

even less incentive to take a settlement when he still had 2 years left on his deal

 

[Simba]

Now that we're inching toward the end of the season, here are my thoughts on the impending FAs...

Anthony Averett - tough one here. He's been a good CB for us but also have Peters returning. You can only invest so much but CB remains a long term need and if you can keep him for a decent contract, you do it. Could get near top of market though.

Bradley Bozeman - another tough one. He's been a solid option at C which is big for us. Wouldn't pay top of market but would expect him to be a priority on a market value contract. Fits the Ravens mold on and off the field.

DeShon Elliott - who knows what the injury will do. Would guess he's gone but if his market is non-existent, he could take a 1 year deal to rehab value.

Calais Campbell - if he's interested in playing, I'd retain him. Approaching the "bargain" stage of his career.

Brandon Williams - we're better against the run with him but health has been an issue and I'd think it's time to move on. Could come back at a discount but I think we're going to attempt to get younger here.

Sammy Watkins - Bateman should ascend to WR2 and Duvernay is doing well as WR3. No need to keep him around.

Patrick Ricard - he's staying. Important part of the offense and I'd be shocked if they let him go.

Jimmy Smith - he's retiring. Body can't handle it anymore

Justin Houston - if you can retain him for something similar to what he's making this year, it's a no brainer. Sack numbers aren't huge but he's been a good player for us.

Chris Board - should be cheap enough to retain

Justin Ellis - a good rotational piece. Keep signing him for the minimum if you can.

LJ Fort - not sure it matters much but I'd keep dialogue open for his return. Can't go wrong at the minimum.

Latavius Murray - bye

Devonta Freeman - bye

Pernell McPhee - bye

 

[rmcjacket23]

even less incentive to take a settlement when he still had 2 years left on his deal

Right, but if I were to assume that they waived him with the intention of getting him to take less money this year to possibly sign with another team, then my assumption is they kind of already know they're not planning to bring him back. Maybe that's not true, but if it wasn't, I don't know why you'd go the waive/IR route anyway, when from what I can tell you don't have to procedurally. You can just put him on IR, pay him, and say "see you next year".

I mean lets face it... 4th year RB on a rookie deal, who's done very little as an actual RB and is 3rd on the depth chart, at best, and who's primary contributions are on ST, and is coming back off an achilles tear. He's got a massive uphill battle just to make a team out of training camp next year in my opinion. Unfortunately for him, the league as a way of just disregarding players like this with similar injuries and lack of significant contributions. Cruel and unfair, but reality, in my opinion.

Regardless, yes, smart move by him to not take anything less than the max he was owed. I seriously doubt any team would have claimed him and agreed to pay him $850K just to rehab all year. Not a lot of money certainly, but I doubt a lot of teams do that for essentially fringe-roster players.