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Lamar Jackson

RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
@Adreme I just looked at Josh Allen's contract. He would have had a fully guaranteed 5th year option in 2022, just as lamar did. His contract was 4.1m base salary with a total cap hit of 16.3m due to his signing bonus and option bonus built into the contract he signed a couple years ago.

You and I are both saying the same thing, I'm talking about it being fully guaranteed like a 5th year option, which isn't the case with an extension and you are saying they adjust the cap hits with the structure. We are both saying the same thing. It's no longer a 5th year option.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
Actually they never really do. They just convert salaries to bonuses and spread it out, or give signing bonuses up front.
Feel free to show me an example of one of those deals.
Even the Flacco second contract wasn't a toss away and redo. It was just taking non-guaranteed Salary, converting it to a bonus, paying it out earlier, and then adding more base salary years on the back end.
That's how teams manage to keep the salary cap so low in earlier years.
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Maybe tossed out isn't the right word. But that money is affected because of the signing bonus. So money is moved around, and typically keeping it low means that the back end is higher as you alluded to.

Which is my point. Regardless of whether or not the deal is 6 years added on or a fresh new 6 years, that money is going to be touched well before that which = another bite of the apple
 
A

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
@Adreme I just looked at Josh Allen's contract. He would have had a fully guaranteed 5th year option in 2022, just as lamar did. His contract was 4.1m base salary with a total cap hit of 16.3m due to his signing bonus and option bonus built into the contract he signed a couple years ago.

You and I are both saying the same thing, I'm talking about it being fully guaranteed like a 5th year option, which isn't the case with an extension and you are saying they adjust the cap hits with the structure. We are both saying the same thing. It's no longer a 5th year option.
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Its hard to remember stories form awhile ago but if I remember right they did a conversion to lower the cap hits, which is why he is still under contract for 6 more seasons after signing a 6 year extension and was another reason they wanted to get the Lamar extension done last year so that they could do the same thing to his 5th year option. I guess they could have baked void years into the 5th year option but given the current circumstances the organization probably dubbed that a tad too high risk.

I also think Allen's baseline 5th year was larger than Lamar's due to not only draft stock but the 2nd pro bowl but again that part is purely from memory.

Either way they just moved the money around for Allen but did not tear up that 5th year as we can both see he has 6 years under contract currently after signing a 6 year extension
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Huntley season baby , let’s go
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Simba said:
Maybe tossed out isn't the right word. But that money is affected because of the signing bonus. So money is moved around, and typically keeping it low means that the back end is higher as you alluded to.

Which is my point. Regardless of whether or not the deal is 6 years added on or a fresh new 6 years, that money is going to be touched well before that which = another bite of the apple
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Its an amendment/extension. They don't rip up the old contract. They just modify the old one to add more $ to it, and then add more years.

If they ripped up the whole contract, then the new "extension" years would be the totality of the contract. I've never seen that. If a guy has one year left on his deal, and signs a 3 year extension, he's under contract for 4 years, not 3.

The rest is just finding a way to get them more $ sooner.

That's the premise of the Lamar discussion. He missed the boat on trying to get max guarantees, because he didn't understand that its more important to get as much as you can, as sooner as you can. Standard time value of $.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Adreme said:
Its hard to remember stories form awhile ago but if I remember right they did a conversion to lower the cap hits, which is why he is still under contract for 6 more seasons after signing a 6 year extension and was another reason they wanted to get the Lamar extension done last year so that they could do the same thing to his 5th year option. I guess they could have baked void years into the 5th year option but given the current circumstances the organization probably dubbed that a tad too high risk.

I also think Allen's baseline 5th year was larger than Lamar's due to not only draft stock but the 2nd pro bowl but again that part is purely from memory.

Either way they just moved the money around for Allen but did not tear up that 5th year as we can both see he has 6 years under contract currently after signing a 6 year extension
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The 5th year discussion is largely semantics. They don't ignore the year, because the team wants the additional season for team control and cap manipulation.
Similarly, no agent (or even somebody without an agent) would sign an extension that would pay them less in that year than what they were already going to make. So if Lamar was due $23M under the 5th year option, he's not going to sign a contract extension that pays him $15M in that same season. Even if the extension is for more $, higher AAV, etc.

His 5th year option was going to pay him $23M. He got nearly $47M instead.

And yeah, he won't make anything close to that in a season for awhile. "Only" getting $28M this year. $30M next year. But that's pretty standard for all contracts and players. They want more $ now, less $ later. Because if they're below market value later, and performing well, it won't be hard to get a raise.

And I'm not convinced Lamar understands this.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
Its an amendment/extension. They don't rip up the old contract. They just modify the old one to add more $ to it, and then add more years.

If they ripped up the whole contract, then the new "extension" years would be the totality of the contract. I've never seen that. If a guy has one year left on his deal, and signs a 3 year extension, he's under contract for 4 years, not 3.

The rest is just finding a way to get them more $ sooner.

That's the premise of the Lamar discussion. He missed the boat on trying to get max guarantees, because he didn't understand that its more important to get as much as you can, as sooner as you can. Standard time value of $.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's literally what I'm saying now. Clarified the language. The years might "stick" but the numbers certainly don't. He's getting back to the negotiating table sooner if he signed a deal 2 years ago is what I'm getting at.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Adreme said:
Its hard to remember stories form awhile ago but if I remember right they did a conversion to lower the cap hits, which is why he is still under contract for 6 more seasons after signing a 6 year extension and was another reason they wanted to get the Lamar extension done last year so that they could do the same thing to his 5th year option. I guess they could have baked void years into the 5th year option but given the current circumstances the organization probably dubbed that a tad too high risk.

I also think Allen's baseline 5th year was larger than Lamar's due to not only draft stock but the 2nd pro bowl but again that part is purely from memory.

Either way they just moved the money around for Allen but did not tear up that 5th year as we can both see he has 6 years under contract currently after signing a 6 year extension
Click to expand...
Baker Mayfield's 5th year option was actually less than Lamar's and that is all due to structure of the contract. correct, they didn't tear up the 5th year, but it wasn't used as a 5th year option....which would have been fully guaranteed.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

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RavensMania said:
Baker Mayfield's 5th year option was actually less than Lamar's and that is all due to structure of the contract. correct, they didn't tear up the 5th year, but it wasn't used as a 5th year option....which would have been fully guaranteed.
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It's not about contract structure. 5th year options are tiered based on accomplishments.
Players who make PBs make more $, as well as players who achieve playing time criteria.
This isn't from that season, but it helps show the breakdown;
www.profootballnetwork.com

NFL Fifth-Year Option Tracker 2023: Eligible Players, Salaries, and How It Works

The NFL has announced the fifth-year option salaries for first-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft. The deadline to exercise the option is May 2.
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
Great examples in there are the four first round QBs from the 2020 draft.
Burrow and Herbert will make the same amount
Tua will make $6.4M less, due to what I imagine is lack of Pro Bowls (and maybe playing time issues)
Jordan Love will make $9.3M less than Burrow or Herbert, despite going in the same round. Obviously he's basically not played.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
rmcjacket23 said:
It's not about contract structure. 5th year options are tiered based on accomplishments.
Players who make PBs make more $, as well as players who achieve playing time criteria.
This isn't from that season, but it helps show the breakdown;
www.profootballnetwork.com

NFL Fifth-Year Option Tracker 2023: Eligible Players, Salaries, and How It Works

The NFL has announced the fifth-year option salaries for first-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft. The deadline to exercise the option is May 2.
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
Great examples in there are the four first round QBs from the 2020 draft.
Burrow and Herbert will make the same amount
Tua will make $6.4M less, due to what I imagine is lack of Pro Bowls (and maybe playing time issues)
Jordan Love will make $9.3M less than Burrow or Herbert, despite going in the same round. Obviously he's basically not played.
Click to expand...
appreciate the info
 
D

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
It's not about contract structure. 5th year options are tiered based on accomplishments.
Players who make PBs make more $, as well as players who achieve playing time criteria.
This isn't from that season, but it helps show the breakdown;
www.profootballnetwork.com

NFL Fifth-Year Option Tracker 2023: Eligible Players, Salaries, and How It Works

The NFL has announced the fifth-year option salaries for first-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft. The deadline to exercise the option is May 2.
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
Great examples in there are the four first round QBs from the 2020 draft.
Burrow and Herbert will make the same amount
Tua will make $6.4M less, due to what I imagine is lack of Pro Bowls (and maybe playing time issues)
Jordan Love will make $9.3M less than Burrow or Herbert, despite going in the same round. Obviously he's basically not played.
Click to expand...
Yep..i think all you have to do is make like 2 probowls to receive the max.. i believe i remember seeing justin jefferson gonna get the max because of it
 
JAAM

JAAM

Hall of Famer
RaineV1 said:


Sure must be nice to have a QB that negotiates a big, but team friendly deal with the goal of getting another bite after a few years.
Click to expand...

Yea, but then it must be nice to have your team trade for AJ Brown while your QB is still on his rookie deal. Regardless, Hurts is still the richest player in the history of the league lol
 
Old Bay

Old Bay

Veteran
IMG_20230424_165138_359.jpg


Rodgers + 1st + 5th
for
1st + 2nd + 6th + (1st, or maybe a 2nd)

I dunno, if I'm the Jets,I think I would just rather have signed Lamar. It must have just simply come down to Crazy contract demands.
 
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