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The Lamar, The Bengals and The Record Books

flynismo

flynismo

Practice Squad
rmcjacket23 said:
If we pay both Peters and Marlon (there's no scenario we don't pay Marlon), I think there's a couple things that for certain will happen:
1. We won't be able to resign Judon
2. There's no way we keep Jimmy and Carr, and maybe not either
3. We cut Jefferson.

I actually don't terribly mind the idea of paying a lot in the secondary. If you're not going to pay Judon, you might as well go youth and volume at pass rush, and there's nobody on offense that you'd need to extend at this point, with the exception of Stanley. Even if you pay Skura, it'll be at average starter money.
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I'm fine with option 2. They're both too far on the wrong side of their 30s come offseason. Jimmy has always been one of my favorites, but right player right price and all...
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
flynismo said:
I'm fine with option 2. They're both too far on the wrong side of their 30s come offseason. Jimmy has always been one of my favorites, but right player right price and all...
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And that could be the case. My point is that IF you choose not to retain either of them, AND you let Judon leave in FA, you could make the argument you need like 7-8 fresh bodies on the defense just to keep it in an "average" state.

I'd say you'd need in the neighborhood of 4-5 linebackers (both inside and outside), and then probably at least 1-2 corners, since you'd head into the offseason with just Marlon, Tavon , (coming back from injury), Peters, and guys like Averett and Marshall who have barely played.

And that's before we discuss depth at Safety (assuming we cut Jefferson and start Clark), upgrading the defensive line (does Pierce stay or go, and getting a better DE than Wormley), and any upgrades we want to make on offense (Guard, WR, namely).
 
A

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23 said:
If we pay both Peters and Marlon (there's no scenario we don't pay Marlon), I think there's a couple things that for certain will happen:
1. We won't be able to resign Judon
2. There's no way we keep Jimmy and Carr, and maybe not either
3. We cut Jefferson.

I actually don't terribly mind the idea of paying a lot in the secondary. If you're not going to pay Judon, you might as well go youth and volume at pass rush, and there's nobody on offense that you'd need to extend at this point, with the exception of Stanley. Even if you pay Skura, it'll be at average starter money.
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I assume we do not keep both Jimmy and Carr just because with Tavon coming back there is no need. I also am sort of assuming that with Clark starting and Elliot the likely backup that Jefferson is gone as well to save 5M. The rest I just do not see happening.

The extensions that will happen are Stanley, whose cap number will probably not change, Marlon, whose cap number will likely only go up 3-5M, and then that leaves Peters, Pierce, and Judon with about 40M to work with (currently have 60M in cap space and I am assuming you want 10M left over and need about 6M for draft though if Ravens make it deep into playoffs maybe that number goes down). There is more then enough money left over to sign Peters for 17M Pierce for 14-15M, and Judon for 16-17M (or tag him).

Even assuming those are the only moves made (I could also see Hurst getting cut to make room for newer younger OLinemen with actual potential), I still think the Ravens are pretty much able to retain any of their own guys that they want.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Adreme said:
I assume we do not keep both Jimmy and Carr just because with Tavon coming back there is no need. I also am sort of assuming that with Clark starting and Elliot the likely backup that Jefferson is gone as well to save 5M. The rest I just do not see happening.

The extensions that will happen are Stanley, whose cap number will probably not change, Marlon, whose cap number will likely only go up 3-5M, and then that leaves Peters, Pierce, and Judon with about 40M to work with (currently have 60M in cap space and I am assuming you want 10M left over and need about 6M for draft though if Ravens make it deep into playoffs maybe that number goes down). There is more then enough money left over to sign Peters for 17M Pierce for 14-15M, and Judon for 16-17M (or tag him).

Even assuming those are the only moves made (I could also see Hurst getting cut to make room for newer younger OLinemen with actual potential), I still think the Ravens are pretty much able to retain any of their own guys that they want.
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btw, we save 7m by cutting Jefferson. I agree this may be the last of James Hurst.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Adreme said:
I assume we do not keep both Jimmy and Carr just because with Tavon coming back there is no need. I also am sort of assuming that with Clark starting and Elliot the likely backup that Jefferson is gone as well to save 5M. The rest I just do not see happening.

The extensions that will happen are Stanley, whose cap number will probably not change, Marlon, whose cap number will likely only go up 3-5M, and then that leaves Peters, Pierce, and Judon with about 40M to work with (currently have 60M in cap space and I am assuming you want 10M left over and need about 6M for draft though if Ravens make it deep into playoffs maybe that number goes down). There is more then enough money left over to sign Peters for 17M Pierce for 14-15M, and Judon for 16-17M (or tag him).

Even assuming those are the only moves made (I could also see Hurst getting cut to make room for newer younger OLinemen with actual potential), I still think the Ravens are pretty much able to retain any of their own guys that they want.
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Pierce is nowhere near 14-15M worth.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Adreme said:
I am figuring he gets the same type of deal BWill gets but a couple years later so with inflation that is the number. If he could rush the passer as well it would be 20M.
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I figure we put a 2nd round tender on him, see what happens and keep BW to play the contract out. There is no reason to spend big on Pierce in 2020.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Adreme said:
I assume we do not keep both Jimmy and Carr just because with Tavon coming back there is no need. I also am sort of assuming that with Clark starting and Elliot the likely backup that Jefferson is gone as well to save 5M. The rest I just do not see happening.

The extensions that will happen are Stanley, whose cap number will probably not change, Marlon, whose cap number will likely only go up 3-5M, and then that leaves Peters, Pierce, and Judon with about 40M to work with (currently have 60M in cap space and I am assuming you want 10M left over and need about 6M for draft though if Ravens make it deep into playoffs maybe that number goes down). There is more then enough money left over to sign Peters for 17M Pierce for 14-15M, and Judon for 16-17M (or tag him).


If I'm signing somebody like Judon or Peters or Stanley to a large long term extension, I'd like to see some very large early year cap hits. That's not something the Ravens have historically done. I'm still not a believer that we're going to become this team that goes out and buys like 3-4 high priced FAs every year, even with the cap space. I still think the emphasis is going to be on the draft and in keeping our own. And if that's the case, then yes, we should be able to retain anybody we want. But I personally don't want that to be at a level where you're signing Stanley to an $18M/year extension, and his first year cap hit is like $8-10M. That's setting yourself up for failure in the not-so-distant future.

Teams that are doing a great job of cap management are front-loading their large deals at times where they are flush with cap space.

If we're going to be extending guys like Peters and Pierce and Judon for those amounts of money, their first year cap hits should be pretty comparable to their averages. Those three guys alone would probably cost $40M in averages, which means that's about where their cap impact should be. That doesn't leave as much meat on the bone after that.

And remember... these moves would just be to keep our team as is. It doesn't even necessarily make us "better"... it just reduces the risk that we'll be worse.

Or we just do what we've always done, which is backload of a bunch of deals, and get stuck with a bunch of underachieving players on significantly elevating salary cap amounts in the future.

My frustration with Tony Jefferson isn't that he got injured. Its that he got injured, wasn't playing well, AND cost $7M more this year than last year. I like Brandon Williams, and he's played well this year. He costs almost $9M more this year than last year. He's not 2x better this year than last year.

Earl Thomas costs $8M more next year than this year. Is he going to be twice the player because his cap hit is 2x as much?

If we have the cap space, and we want to keep our own, do it. Flatten out the cap structures. Or at the very least, structure it in a way that the cap impact grows at a comparable rate to the cap growing. When you sign Earl Thomas to a $13.5M AAV contract, and his first year cap impact is $7M, that's a bad thing, not a good thing.

Hopefully 2019 was the last year of that.
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flynismo

flynismo

Practice Squad
So here's a scary thought for down the road....I'm in season 5 of my franchise in Madden 2020 and Lamar wants to negotiate his new contract. Hopefully in real life $40M year will be enough to keep him around....
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
flynismo said:
So here's a scary thought for down the road....I'm in season 5 of my franchise in Madden 2020 and Lamar wants to negotiate his new contract. Hopefully in real life $40M year will be enough to keep him around....
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hell yeah and it will most likely be more than 40m per year. could even be 50m at that point.

That being said, the cap will be going up with the new CBA, in 2021-22 season, substantially.
 
Willbacker

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
hell yeah and it will most likely be more than 40m per year. could even be 50m at that point.

That being said, the cap will be going up with the new CBA, in 2021-22 season, substantially.
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The players still got the same rep as they did for the last negotiations and in this CBA the cap substantially went down in the 1st year. I'm not as confident as you are.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Willbacker said:
The players still got the same rep as they did for the last negotiations and in this CBA the cap substantially went down in the 1st year. I'm not as confident as you are.
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not a chance in hell it goes down this time. I remember it actually staying the same but with the new TV deals coming through, the cap should be raised substantially.
 
Willbacker

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
not a chance in hell it goes down this time. I remember it actually staying the same but with the new TV deals coming through, the cap should be raised substantially.
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It did go down but not as much as I thought. Still took 3 yrs tho to get back to 2009 numbers. After that sheeesh. It jumped at a rate of 10-12 mil each year.

Year Maximum team salary
2019 $188.2 million
2018 $177.2 million[15]
2017 $167.00 million
2016 $155.27 million[16]
2015 $143.28 million[17]
2014 $133 million[18]
2013 $123 million[19]
2012 $120.6 million[20]
2011 $120 million[20]
2010 Uncapped
2009 $123 million
2008 $116 million
2007 $109 million
2006 $102 million
2005 $85.5 million
2004 $80.582 million
2003 $75.007 million
2002 $71.101 million
2001 $67.405 million
2000 $62.172 million
1999 $57.288 million
1998 $52.388 million
1997 $41.454 million
1996 $40.753 million
1995 $37.1 million
1994 $34.608 million
Year by Year Salary Cap
 
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