Signings, Cuts, Trades

[Grim]

Sorry for late response.

There's always a guy who's cut who you don't expect to be there. I think Calais Campbell is that type of guy and he brings monstrous pass-rushing help to this team. He's one guy I would like to have here for the short term, I really don't mind the age because he's going to be great productivity in the DL in all phases that we haven't had in ages. I also would like to think that we can make a move via trade for someone as well which I wouldn't rule out. I really would love to have another Haloti Ngata honestly but Campbell would do just fine. Another guy who could hit FA or be on the block is Ryan Kerrigan who the Redskins would have 0 dead money from moving on from, with Chase Young potentially there, it could make it an easier decision.

My dream scenario would go like this. Sign a productive DL who can rush the passer, make a move via trade or FA for an edge guy, draft another pass-rush specialist 1st round whether its someone who plays inside or outside and retain Judon on a contract that doesn't totally break the bank. Round 2 could be an ILB that I hope we hit on.

It would probably take 10M to sign Campbell, Kerrigan's cap number stands at 11.7M, and Judon in my best case scenario could be brought back at 16M per year. That's about $37M in cap space and I don't know if we have that type of money to spend for those 3, but I'm all for putting all our chips on the table for the front 7.

I've flip flopped so much in terms of keeping Judon. That last game left a sour taste in my mouth but he has a good body of work, didn't have help on the DL in terms of rushing the passer, and had pretty good pressure and QB hit numbers. Also, he plays a SAM LB role for this team, while his coverage is solid at best, it's not easy finding a SAM in this league. I'm all for putting most of the cap towards the front 7, this defense needs it badly. I would also love to see the team add a veteran WR in FA. All in all, a major boost for the pass rush, and a Vet WR is really what I think we should key in for. I think OL should be left alone if Yanda returns.

I agree, Campbell would be a great addition here.

 

[Deebo813]

not giving up on him - but he hasnt shown us enough to build around expecting him to take the step he needs to take - we can hope he takes a step and its not unlikely that he'll improve (to what degree, we dont know yet) but we cant rely on that happening

Boykin is 6”5 and ran a 4.4.. the fact that he couldnt get open 1vs1 on that slant, in, post or whatever it was had me mad af lol.. like it wasnt any separation at all man.

 

[Grim]

Boykin is 6”5 and ran a 4.4.. the fact that he couldnt get open 1vs1 on that slant, in, post or whatever it was had me mad af lol.. like it wasnt any separation at all man.

WRs are a strange lot. It used to take them a few years to come into their own; however, now we have guys contributing immediately. I’m not saying be alarmed Boykin hasn’t done much yet, but I seriously question if he can take the next step. I’m pulling for him because he’s a Raven, but I just don’t know. He didn’t show me enough this year to make me think he’s anything more than a preseason performer.

 

[Charm City]

Boykin is 6”5 and ran a 4.4.. the fact that he couldnt get open 1vs1 on that slant, in, post or whatever it was had me mad af lol.. like it wasnt any separation at all man.

I know we poo poo the front office for having poor taste in wide receivers, but our fan base seems stuck on this notion that height + speed = elite potential. AJ green, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans are not fast, OBJ and Antonio Brown were not tall, and from my 1 minute research prior to writing this only Julio Jones had both traits. Playing WR is very nuanced and involves lots of film study to know the intricacies of how to manipulate the DBs that are covering you, and knowing how to position your body so that the DB does not beat you to the catch point.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I know we poo poo the front office for having poor taste in wide receivers, but our fan base seems stuck on this notion that height + speed = elite potential. AJ green, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans are not fast, OBJ and Antonio Brown were not tall, and from my 1 minute research prior to writing this only Julio Jones had both traits. Playing WR is very nuanced and involves lots of film study to know the intricacies of how to manipulate the DBs that are covering you, and knowing how to position your body so that the DB does not beat you to the catch point.

I agree, and I'll also say that there's sort of two different groups here:

1. There's your "can't miss" prospects. AJ Green, Hopkins, Mike Evans, OBJ, Julio types. They're largely 95% developed by the time they step foot in OTAs two months after getting drafted. The only thing they need to succeed is for you to throw them the ball. They can play in any system and play well with average or worse QB play, which pretty much all of those guys have.

The reality is that it'll take something extraordinary for the Ravens to really be in a position to get one of these types. They typically don't fall past the top 15 picks in the draft (mostly top 10 guys), and the Ravens, even during the Flacco era, were at least an average team every year, which means on a bad year you're picking around 15-20. It would take something similar to 2015 for us to be in a spot to get those guys, and even then, we'd have to be in a position where a stud WR is our biggest "need" AND that a stud WR in that class exists in the draft for us to pick one. The 2016 draft, when we took Stanley high, was a notoriously weak WR class in the pre-draft process, and that's proven true.

2. There's your Michael Thomas/Antonio Brown types. Thomas was NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, viewed as a "can't miss" prospect, and pretty much nobody knew who Antonio Brown was.
These guys usually are missing an attribute or two you're looking for in an elite WR. Thomas was criticized coming out of college for being "raw", having "bad footwork" and being a "terrible route runner". They thought he had a lot of work to do in playing through contact.

These guys required more development, and they got it. Most of that is on their own through desire and hard work, but some of it is coaching and player development.

And as everybody knows at this point, the Ravens franchise, through multiple coaches, GM's, etc., has a horrible track record of developing WRs.

And that's the real problem.

 

[cdp]

I know we poo poo the front office for having poor taste in wide receivers, but our fan base seems stuck on this notion that height + speed = elite potential. AJ green, DeAndre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans are not fast, OBJ and Antonio Brown were not tall, and from my 1 minute research prior to writing this only Julio Jones had both traits. Playing WR is very nuanced and involves lots of film study to know the intricacies of how to manipulate the DBs that are covering you, and knowing how to position your body so that the DB does not beat you to the catch point.

The only combination we should look at is route running and ability to snatch and grab balls in the air a.k.a no body catcher. Good to great route running always gets you open no matter how fast you are and we could use that type from day 1. I'm looking to start watching WR tape. With whom should I start?

 

[Tank]

Boykin is 6”5 and ran a 4.4.. the fact that he couldnt get open 1vs1 on that slant, in, post or whatever it was had me mad af lol.. like it wasnt any separation at all man.

Last week? I was listening to someone(don't remember who) the other day but they were saying that Titans sold out to take away the middle of the field thinking LJ couldn't make the strong throw to the outside/flat.

 

[rossihunter2]

Boykin is 6”5 and ran a 4.4.. the fact that he couldnt get open 1vs1 on that slant, in, post or whatever it was had me mad af lol.. like it wasnt any separation at all man.

he flashes good route running but isnt a good route runner yet which isnt unexpected - i think he struggles with press a little bit because he's not a short-area quickness guy but you could see that against less physical corners in the preseason he could destroy them in off coverage - its a big offseason for him

but he's at worst got redzone upside

 

[rossihunter2]

The only combination we should look at is route running and ability to snatch and grab balls in the air a.k.a no body catcher. Good to great route running always gets you open no matter how fast you are and we could use that type from day 1. I'm looking to start watching WR tape. With whom should I start?

its why having someone like calvin ridley would still have been a great option in stead of hurst in that draft because he was a technician in college as a wr

 

[rossihunter2]

The only combination we should look at is route running and ability to snatch and grab balls in the air a.k.a no body catcher. Good to great route running always gets you open no matter how fast you are and we could use that type from day 1. I'm looking to start watching WR tape. With whom should I start?

oh man this class is awesome - so good that the top 4 guys are probably not even close to reachable for us at 28: Jerry Jeudy, Ceedee Lamb, Henry Ruggs III, Tee Higgins

but there's so many other guys to watch - here's some to get started with:
KJ Hamler
Justin Jefferson
Denzel Mims
Tyler Johnson
Brandon Aiyuk
Jalen Reagor
Gabriel Davis

and more... Laviska Shenault Jr is someone being touted by the draftniks as a 1st round guy but i dont see it at all - you might want to watch him too see what opinion you come away with

but id say almost all of the above list are going to have 2nd round grades or better

of those guys justin jefferson is probably the best route runner - denzel mims might be the most exciting - hamler, aiyuk and reagor have so much speed (but not as much as henry ruggs iii)

 

[RavensMania]

WRs are a strange lot. It used to take them a few years to come into their own; however, now we have guys contributing immediately. I’m not saying be alarmed Boykin hasn’t done much yet, but I seriously question if he can take the next step. I’m pulling for him because he’s a Raven, but I just don’t know. He didn’t show me enough this year to make me think he’s anything more than a preseason performer.

some receivers contribute right from the jump, but most receivers still need time to adjust. I believe Boykin has the ability to succeed and have a major jump next season, but his best position imo would be playing big slot. Lets remember that DJ Chark had issues in year one as well and he came on strong this season. I'm not saying to rest on our laurels, because we absolutely should draft another receiver, but I feel Boykin will due well next season.

 

[RavensMania]

I agree, and I'll also say that there's sort of two different groups here:

1. There's your "can't miss" prospects. AJ Green, Hopkins, Mike Evans, OBJ, Julio types. They're largely 95% developed by the time they step foot in OTAs two months after getting drafted. The only thing they need to succeed is for you to throw them the ball. They can play in any system and play well with average or worse QB play, which pretty much all of those guys have.

The reality is that it'll take something extraordinary for the Ravens to really be in a position to get one of these types. They typically don't fall past the top 15 picks in the draft (mostly top 10 guys), and the Ravens, even during the Flacco era, were at least an average team every year, which means on a bad year you're picking around 15-20. It would take something similar to 2015 for us to be in a spot to get those guys, and even then, we'd have to be in a position where a stud WR is our biggest "need" AND that a stud WR in that class exists in the draft for us to pick one. The 2016 draft, when we took Stanley high, was a notoriously weak WR class in the pre-draft process, and that's proven true.

2. There's your Michael Thomas/Antonio Brown types. Thomas was NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, viewed as a "can't miss" prospect, and pretty much nobody knew who Antonio Brown was.
These guys usually are missing an attribute or two you're looking for in an elite WR. Thomas was criticized coming out of college for being "raw", having "bad footwork" and being a "terrible route runner". They thought he had a lot of work to do in playing through contact.

These guys required more development, and they got it. Most of that is on their own through desire and hard work, but some of it is coaching and player development.

And as everybody knows at this point, the Ravens franchise, through multiple coaches, GM's, etc., has a horrible track record of developing WRs.

And that's the real problem.

Nice write up and agree with everything you said, accept the bolded part. In reality we haven't really drafted receivers that high that often. Perriman was extremely raw and couldn't hold onto the ball, plus he dealt with many injuries in his first two seasons that slowed down his growth. Perriman was the first, first round WR the Ravens had taken since 2005. We also drafted Torrey Smith in the 2nd round and he wasn't that bad. Other than that they were mainly late round guys and they are hit or miss. EDC said himself that we need to draft more WR's and I think he used a baseball analogy.

 

[cdp]

Harbaugh said they're looking for 2 different types of WR to bring in via draft, free agency or trade.

 

[rossihunter2]

Nice write up and agree with everything you said, accept the bolded part. In reality we haven't really drafted receivers that high that often. Perriman was extremely raw and couldn't hold onto the ball, plus he dealt with many injuries in his first two seasons that slowed down his growth. Perriman was the first, first round WR the Ravens had taken since 2005. We also drafted Torrey Smith in the 2nd round and he wasn't that bad. Other than that they were mainly late round guys and they are hit or miss. EDC said himself that we need to draft more WR's and I think he used a baseball analogy.

yeah i did some analysis of that last offseason about how the draft investment we'd put into wrs since the beginning of the franchise is more attributable to the lack of quality wrs than the coaching itself (albeit i was never a fan of bobby engram as a wr coach) - and beyond that just offensive investment in general in the first 3 rounds and it was dire

2 drafts with a focus on offensive players and suddenly we have the best offence in the league (now a lot of that ignores just how good lamar is but without picking offensive players you dont even get the option of that kind of turnaround)

 

[rossihunter2]

Harbaugh said they're looking for 2 different types of WR to bring in via draft, free agency or trade.

do you have the exact quote?

 

[cdp]

do you have the exact quote?

I just watched the presser myself I'm only paraphrasing here. But that's basically what he said.
EDIT:

 

[RavensMania]

I just watched the presser myself I'm only paraphrasing here. But that's basically what he said.
EDIT:

does anyone have the entire press conference?

 

[JAAM]

I just watched the presser myself I'm only paraphrasing here. But that's basically what he said.
EDIT:

Oh man. If we could bring Stephon home or trade for Robert Woods, Lamar could easily top 4k yards next season. Anyone know of some other stud WRs on cap-strapped teams that could be traded?

 

[JAAM]

Just did some research. Atlanta is strapped. Pipe-dream, but what if they put Julio on the block lol. The Rams, Vikings and Falcons are the teams that could use more cap, and they all have stud WRs that could obviously help us. Atlanta might be in rebuild mode. Can't wait to see what happens.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Nice write up and agree with everything you said, accept the bolded part. In reality we haven't really drafted receivers that high that often. Perriman was extremely raw and couldn't hold onto the ball, plus he dealt with many injuries in his first two seasons that slowed down his growth. Perriman was the first, first round WR the Ravens had taken since 2005. We also drafted Torrey Smith in the 2nd round and he wasn't that bad. Other than that they were mainly late round guys and they are hit or miss. EDC said himself that we need to draft more WR's and I think he used a baseball analogy.

Right. My point was that we're not likely to be in a position to get a "can't miss" WR. Everybody knew Perriman was raw, but we drafted him due to his attributes, and he didn't develop.

And I agree with EDC. Its basically a volume approach at this point. If you're only going to take like one WR every 1-2 years, and you're going to wait until day 3 to take them, there's a good chance maybe one per decade will develop into anything more than a viable NFL starter.

So if we want the next AB (with a different brain of course), then part of that is going to be on coaches to turn 3rd or 4th rounders into stars. Its not that common that they just do it on their own.

That, or you have to do the one thing I doubt we'll ever consider doing, and that's mortgaging future drafts to go up and get the Julio-types. I don't see that happening anytime soon.