Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah that's certainly fair as well. Weird having this many of our own locked up. Not much in the way of comp picks. As mentioned, Jimmy and Pierce are the virtual guarantees for qualification. I would think Peanut can swing a decent enough deal to qualify. I'd think if Pierce signs a big enough deal, he's the one you might try to preserve. I'm not convinced he's going to have a robust market, though.

True, but remember, its still NET free agents lost. If we sign two actual FAs (not cuts), you can't get a comp pick for either of those guys.

No matter what, if you end up at net zero or even sign more FAs than you lose, you can't get a comp pick for anybody, regardless of how much they sign for.

 

[Simba]

I doubt Peanut gets anything more than a 1-2 year prove it type deal with little guarantees. He lost his starting job to Bynes and Fort, two mid-season free agents. He'll be lucky to get anything more than 5mil/year which would be about a 6th

All about the net gain/loss on him, in my eyes. For the sake of discussion, even if he signs a $1.5M/year deal, that'll help us. Would likely mean we'd be open to signing a lower level unrestricted FA.

 

[Simba]

True, but remember, its still NET free agents lost. If we sign two actual FAs (not cuts), you can't get a comp pick for either of those guys.

No matter what, if you end up at net zero or even sign more FAs than you lose, you can't get a comp pick for anybody, regardless of how much they sign for.

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. I'd think Pierce and Jimmy are the only ones in line to be decent comp picks, assuming the net gain/loss thing. Basically, if the market doesn't materialize for Pierce and you end up with him being on the edge of a late rounder as opposed to a mid rounder, do you just say fuck it and ignore comp picks this year? I'd lean that direction honestly. I know we love comp picks here in Baltimore, but with everyone we've locked up, we don't have many guys that would even qualify right now. I'd think both Jimmy and Pierce would end up on the border of 4th/5th. If you think 4th, maybe you try to preserve them. If they're more likely 5th, I'd be looking to sign some UFAs.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. I'd think Pierce and Jimmy are the only ones in line to be decent comp picks, assuming the net gain/loss thing. Basically, if the market doesn't materialize for Pierce and you end up with him being on the edge of a late rounder as opposed to a mid rounder, do you just say fuck it and ignore comp picks this year? I'd lean that direction honestly. I know we love comp picks here in Baltimore, but with everyone we've locked up, we don't have many guys that would even qualify right now. I'd think both Jimmy and Pierce would end up on the border of 4th/5th. If you think 4th, maybe you try to preserve them. If they're more likely 5th, I'd be looking to sign some UFAs.

I think Comp picks are A factor, but not THE factor in our decision making.

For example, guys like Jimmy and Pierce are probably going to sign in the first few days when FA opens, whether with us or somewhere else. At that point, you'll know their value and could probably reasonably "guesstimate" what kind of pick you'd get. Since we're normally shopping in tier 2 in FA, I'd expect it to be a consideration, but not a huge one. Maybe you pass on signing a $3-5M depth player later in March, in order to keep that 5th round pick.

Plus the Ravens normally like to wait on some of these roster cuts, which don't impact the formula.

One of the reasons I think the Ravens love the Comp picks so much is also because we rarely have any real money to spend in FA, so we need to focus on the draft by necessity anyway. That's not necessarily dramatically different this year, but we're not as hamstrung to the draft as we have been for probably the last 5-10 years.

That being said, while the Ravens have a very lengthy list of UFAs (14 by my count, excluding Judon), I'm only seeing really two guys who will fetch anything in FA... Jimmy and Pierce, and I wouldn't even close the door on Jimmy returning at this point either. I think pretty much everybody else is going to be signing short term deals, little to no guaranteed money, and nothing that would rise above a 6th rounder in my opinion.

I think the Ravens will certainly sign at least two UFAs in free agency... likely as many as 3-4. If that's the case, it'll be difficult, in my eyes, to be landing much more than 5th or 6th round comp picks this year.

 

[rossihunter2]

I think Comp picks are A factor, but not THE factor in our decision making.

For example, guys like Jimmy and Pierce are probably going to sign in the first few days when FA opens, whether with us or somewhere else. At that point, you'll know their value and could probably reasonably "guesstimate" what kind of pick you'd get. Since we're normally shopping in tier 2 in FA, I'd expect it to be a consideration, but not a huge one. Maybe you pass on signing a $3-5M depth player later in March, in order to keep that 5th round pick.

Plus the Ravens normally like to wait on some of these roster cuts, which don't impact the formula.

One of the reasons I think the Ravens love the Comp picks so much is also because we rarely have any real money to spend in FA, so we need to focus on the draft by necessity anyway. That's not necessarily dramatically different this year, but we're not as hamstrung to the draft as we have been for probably the last 5-10 years.

That being said, while the Ravens have a very lengthy list of UFAs (14 by my count, excluding Judon), I'm only seeing really two guys who will fetch anything in FA... Jimmy and Pierce, and I wouldn't even close the door on Jimmy returning at this point either. I think pretty much everybody else is going to be signing short term deals, little to no guaranteed money, and nothing that would rise above a 6th rounder in my opinion.

I think the Ravens will certainly sign at least two UFAs in free agency... likely as many as 3-4. If that's the case, it'll be difficult, in my eyes, to be landing much more than 5th or 6th round comp picks this year.

this is going to be a side-effect of EDC's attempts to pay our own talent and pay them early - will mean we have fewer high profile guys hitting free agency which in turn may impact the amount (and value) of picks we retrieve from the comp pick formula

that being said we still obviously value comp picks pretty highly given the fact that despite having a struggling special teams unit we were fine parting ways with justin bethel to recoup the 4th round pick we potentially lost when brent urban was cut (what would have been interesting is whether we ended up cutting bethel before week 10 to recoup the 5th round pick for suggs if urban hadn't been cut)

but it will be interesting to see whether we remain at the top of the comp picks table as EDC's tenure goes on - im looking ahead at the 2021 free agent group and unless the unimaginable happens (i.e. we dont retain ronnie stanley) then there's basically no one on that list who will demand big money on the free agent market - the best you could hope is that tyus bowser breaks out and earns himself a big contract and that willie snead has enough production to get more than minor interest

 

[Simba]

I think Comp picks are A factor, but not THE factor in our decision making.

For example, guys like Jimmy and Pierce are probably going to sign in the first few days when FA opens, whether with us or somewhere else. At that point, you'll know their value and could probably reasonably "guesstimate" what kind of pick you'd get. Since we're normally shopping in tier 2 in FA, I'd expect it to be a consideration, but not a huge one. Maybe you pass on signing a $3-5M depth player later in March, in order to keep that 5th round pick.

Plus the Ravens normally like to wait on some of these roster cuts, which don't impact the formula.

One of the reasons I think the Ravens love the Comp picks so much is also because we rarely have any real money to spend in FA, so we need to focus on the draft by necessity anyway. That's not necessarily dramatically different this year, but we're not as hamstrung to the draft as we have been for probably the last 5-10 years.

That being said, while the Ravens have a very lengthy list of UFAs (14 by my count, excluding Judon), I'm only seeing really two guys who will fetch anything in FA... Jimmy and Pierce, and I wouldn't even close the door on Jimmy returning at this point either. I think pretty much everybody else is going to be signing short term deals, little to no guaranteed money, and nothing that would rise above a 6th rounder in my opinion.

I think the Ravens will certainly sign at least two UFAs in free agency... likely as many as 3-4. If that's the case, it'll be difficult, in my eyes, to be landing much more than 5th or 6th round comp picks this year.

Oh I don't disagree with that at all. Like usual, I would expect them to identify 1-2 players that they really want in the first wave (e.g. Mark Ingram last year, Ben Watson a few years back, etc.). My main point is that if they stick to that trend and cancel out one of Jimmy or Pierce, are we really that concerned about comp picks this year? If they sign early and the money looks to be more in the 4th round realm, then I think they'd take a more cautious approach. If they don't get as much money as they think or don't sign in the first wave, I could see them taking a more aggressive approach. When you have big money guys who are garnering 3rd round comps, you try to preserve them. If you're talking 5th or even 6th rounders, I wouldn't hamstring my team for a late rounder. I never expect us to be big players but there's going to be some UFA value out there and with EDC at the helm, I could see a slight shift in priority. We're never going to be at either extreme in regards to comp picks - preserving whatever we can at all costs vs. not caring at all. I think it'll just come down to a slight shift in philosophy this year, where we don't care as much because we don't have much that will actually garner them in the first place.

 

[rmcjacket23]

this is going to be a side-effect of EDC's attempts to pay our own talent and pay them early - will mean we have fewer high profile guys hitting free agency which in turn may impact the amount (and value) of picks we retrieve from the comp pick formula

that being said we still obviously value comp picks pretty highly given the fact that despite having a struggling special teams unit we were fine parting ways with justin bethel to recoup the 4th round pick we potentially lost when brent urban was cut (what would have been interesting is whether we ended up cutting bethel before week 10 to recoup the 5th round pick for suggs if urban hadn't been cut)

but it will be interesting to see whether we remain at the top of the comp picks table as EDC's tenure goes on - im looking ahead at the 2021 free agent group and unless the unimaginable happens (i.e. we dont retain ronnie stanley) then there's basically no one on that list who will demand big money on the free agent market - the best you could hope is that tyus bowser breaks out and earns himself a big contract and that willie snead has enough production to get more than minor interest

Agree with the Bethel part, though that's largely because it was projected as a 4th rounder. If that were a 6th rounder, I don't think we would have cut him.

I think you'll continue to see us come away with comp picks, I just don't think you'll see nearly as many in the 4th or even 5th round range that we've been seeing.

 

[rossihunter2]

Agree with the Bethel part, though that's largely because it was projected as a 4th rounder. If that were a 6th rounder, I don't think we would have cut him.

I think you'll continue to see us come away with comp picks, I just don't think you'll see nearly as many in the 4th or even 5th round range that we've been seeing.

that's why i say it would have been interesting to see if we still cut bethel if brent urban remained un-cut from the titans...

would show how much we value a 5th rounder

and if we're only going to be getting 6th and 7th rounders in terms of comp picks then i think you'll see us prioritising them a lot less - consistently there are 200 or fewer draftable players on the ravens board each year - now obviously not all of those guys get picked in order so some of them will be around in the 6th and 7th round but the value of those picks is not necessarily more than a veteran free agent

i think you could argue that 6th rounders have value but the 7th round consistently is basically a round of suped up priority udfas

 

[Simba]

that's why i say it would have been interesting to see if we still cut bethel if brent urban remained un-cut from the titans...

would show how much we value a 5th rounder

and if we're only going to be getting 6th and 7th rounders in terms of comp picks then i think you'll see us prioritising them a lot less - consistently there are 200 or fewer draftable players on the ravens board each year - now obviously not all of those guys get picked in order so some of them will be around in the 6th and 7th round but the value of those picks is not necessarily more than a veteran free agent

i think you could argue that 6th rounders have value but the 7th round consistently is basically a round of suped up priority udfas

I even think a 5th is starting to lose value with the recency of how trades are conducted in the NFL. If you want a 5th, package a 6th and a player you don't really want and you're more than likely to get it nowadays. Seems to be the new trading trend.

 

[Ellicottraven]

All about the net gain/loss on him, in my eyes. For the sake of discussion, even if he signs a $1.5M/year deal, that'll help us. Would likely mean we'd be open to signing a lower level unrestricted FA.

After his showdown with Harbs, I doubt he's part of the plan. He's as good as gone. As much as Harbs seems to say it was just a typical disagreement, these sorts of showdowns don't sit well with him unless of course it is a superstar like Ed Reed. Peanut isn't coming back imho.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

After his showdown with Harbs, I doubt he's part of the plan. He's as good as gone. As much as Harbs seems to say it was just a typical disagreement, these sorts of showdowns don't sit well with him unless of course it is a superstar like Ed Reed. Peanut isn't coming back imho.

Does anyone even want him back? Peanut did next to nothing this past season in his contract year after he was poised to "break out". Without an elite LB next to him, like Mosley, Peanut proved to be JAG. Hopefully some other team gives him a decent contract so we can possibly get a comp pick.

 

[rossihunter2]

After his showdown with Harbs, I doubt he's part of the plan. He's as good as gone. As much as Harbs seems to say it was just a typical disagreement, these sorts of showdowns don't sit well with him unless of course it is a superstar like Ed Reed. Peanut isn't coming back imho.

he's talking about peanut being signed by other teams not by us

 

[Simba]

After his showdown with Harbs, I doubt he's part of the plan. He's as good as gone. As much as Harbs seems to say it was just a typical disagreement, these sorts of showdowns don't sit well with him unless of course it is a superstar like Ed Reed. Peanut isn't coming back imho.

I was saying elsewhere. I know his time here is done.

 

[JO_75]

Projected Franchise Tag Players:



Would anyone give up the 28th Overall Pick for Yannick, Jones or Scherrf? Do you guys think we could get a high second round pick for Judon?

 

[Deebo813]

Projected Franchise Tag Players:



Would anyone give up the 28th Overall Pick for Yannick, Jones or Scherrf? Do you guys think we could get a high second round pick for Judon?

Chris jones hell yea but not anyone else

 

[RavensMania]

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. I'd think Pierce and Jimmy are the only ones in line to be decent comp picks, assuming the net gain/loss thing. Basically, if the market doesn't materialize for Pierce and you end up with him being on the edge of a late rounder as opposed to a mid rounder, do you just say fuck it and ignore comp picks this year? I'd lean that direction honestly. I know we love comp picks here in Baltimore, but with everyone we've locked up, we don't have many guys that would even qualify right now. I'd think both Jimmy and Pierce would end up on the border of 4th/5th. If you think 4th, maybe you try to preserve them. If they're more likely 5th, I'd be looking to sign some UFAs.

If this were last year I would have thought for sure that Pierce would have brought us a 3rd round comp w/o question. Now I don't think that at all.

 

[JAAM]

Pelissero thinks Judon will be tagged and traded. Thank the lord

 

[RavensMania]

Pelissero thinks Judon will be tagged and traded. Thank the lord

not only that, per rappaport he feels Chris Jones, Ngakue and Judon are tag and trade options

 

[Grim]

Any word on our comp picks yet? I am surprised we’ve heard nothing yet

 

[JAAM]

not only that, per rappaport he feels Chris Jones, Ngakue and Judon are tag and trade options

Going to be an interesting offseason