The Random Thought Thread

[drjohnnyfever]

The greatest bodyslam in the history of football! RIP Goose!

 

[rmcjacket23]

also the second best thing you do by legalising drugs is you get to tax them lol...

that's on top of the fact that you can ensure safe products, more healthy consumption and destigmatise drug-use and therefore enable more efficient solutions to those suffering with addiction

They keep the truly evil in business?

What keeps the truly evil in business( I take it you’re referring to drug dealers) is prohibition. Make something illegal and there will be a black market for it overnight and there is nothing you can do to stop it, so what do we do?… militarize to try to stop it.

You’re a cop so I don’t expect you to bend in the slightest because I’ve yet to meet a cop who has a rational perspective on this, but the war on drugs is not only an objective failure, it is perhaps the biggest failure in American history, up there with Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. You wanna talk about a drain on tax dollars? Go see what it costs the American taxpayer to house an inmate for a day, an inmate who’s spending years behind bars because he pissed dirty, go see who that money goes to, the US has a FOR PROFIT PRISON INDUSTRY, some of the highest recidivism rates in the world. Go see the tax dollars wasted on arrests that officers KNOW will never see a courtroom.

Frankly I don’t wanna hear any of those points made earlier because you could make these same points about unqualified police.

So in general, I agree with you both. Legalizing certain drugs is the lesser of two evils.
The reason its not so simple is:
1. We've sort of already seen what "legalized" drug usage can look like. Alcohol is generally legal, and so are many prescribed medications that have a propensity to directly feed and create addiction.
Both of those things are certainly "nuisances" to society. As long as there are access to these things, they'll be abused by people. That's just the nature of things.
So its not like anybody is going to believe that solving a drug problem is going to be completed by simply legalizing it and regulating it, because historically speaking, that's pretty much never proven to be the case.
2. It MIGHT "solve" the problem of drug dealers (not even necessarily users) who prey on addicts and people to make money. Legalizing and regulating the industry will largely make that a non-issue. However, the question then becomes... what happens to those people? Are we just to assume that if a drug dealer has no drugs to deal, or no buyers, he'll automatically start down the straight and narrow path, get a good job, contribute to society, etc?

Ultimately, the problem with legalization is this... take heroin or cocaine for example. What positive properties do they have to justify giving citizens legal access to them?
It took decades of medical studies to show that recreational marijuana use isn't the problem people think it is. It has numerous medicinal benefits.
Is that true of all drugs? I doubt it. I think it'd be tough to sell opioids as useful in any fashion other than pain management. And if that's the case, that's already occurring through pharmaceutical companies, and its already a big problem, even when it is legal to consume in certain contexts.

So in my opinion, simply allowing people to have legal access to heroin, cocaine, etc. isn't the right move. It might allow the government to tax it and "regulate" it, but end of day, what's it's useful purpose to begin with? The drugs we've seen legalized recently (marijuana, mushrooms, even LSD) have documented, medicinal, mental benefits that decades of research have uncovered.

 

[ravenslord]

The greatest bodyslam in the history of football! RIP Goose!

Man , i remember that. That was a brutal hit. Goose ,taking no prisoners!

 

[Ellicottraven]

Now, I just heard that the great Tony Siragusa a.k.a. the Goose also died today at the age of 55. A terrible day to be a Ravens fan. Let us mark this day as a day of sadness.

 

[Simba]

Man what a shitty day. RIP to Goose. Remember going to training camp at McDaniel as a child and I was by the fence on the lower field and I called him over to sign my pennant. As soon as he started walking over, people swarmed and I was being crushed against the fence. He sternly told everyone to "back the fuck up" and signed my pennant and gave me a high five and walked off. Always loved that guy.

 

[cobrajet]

what a horribly unempathetic view you have of people who are struggling - addiction is an illness not the entirety of a person
how can you not feel militarised when all these things have literally been dubbed "the war on drugs"...

It is not that I am unempathetic, but when you make the choice to do illegal drugs and end up hurting innocent people. I feel more empathetic toward the innocent people than the addicts. Especially the kids that suffer! What is your answer to all the crime and hurt these people cause? Do you see all the horror going on in Baltimore City on a daily basis? How many friends of yours have been killed here? Walk a mile in my shoes, before you judge me.

I took an oath to protect and serve. I have skin in the game. I have a duty to enforce the law. If the law is changed and laws are taken off the books, they will no longer be enforced.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It is not that I am unempathetic, but when you make the choice to do illegal drugs and end up hurting innocent people. I feel more empathetic toward the innocent people than the addicts. Especially the kids that suffer! What is your answer to all the crime and hurt these people cause? Do you see all the horror going on in Baltimore City on a daily basis? How many friends of yours have been killed here? Walk a mile in my shoes, before you judge me.

Well, for starters, whatever "we" are doing now, clearly doesn't work. There's not a single metric any police officer can come up with that will show our current drug enforcement and legislation policies are effective at all in stopping anybody from doing anything.

In generality:
1. Harsher sentences for drug manufacturers and dealers
2. Lighter sentences for non-violent users, and more emphasis on treatment programs and rehab and less emphasis on trying to convince people that prisons are rehabilitation areas (they've never been).

 

[NaturalBornHitters]

Wow the Goose too, wtf

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Well put and EXCELLENT points.




Then I see your pic and am reminded about a man in prison who loves taking booty...

I'm conflicted

One might say I’m a man of culture

 

[cobrajet]

Well, for starters, whatever "we" are doing now, clearly doesn't work. There's not a single metric any police officer can come up with that will show our current drug enforcement and legislation policies are effective at all in stopping anybody from doing anything.

In generality:
1. Harsher sentences for drug manufacturers and dealers
2. Lighter sentences for non-violent users, and more emphasis on treatment programs and rehab and less emphasis on trying to convince people that prisons are rehabilitation areas (they've never been).

I agree it has not worked because as long as drugs exist it will never end. However, I know many officers, including myself, have made a difference. Some of the good people stuck in the mess actually appreciate what we do.

 

[SaltyDog]

Bad week to be a Ravens fan! Goose was one my all time favorites. Loved that guy. And what can you say about Fergie? WTF!

 

[JO_75]

 

[del3498]

Raven's have had a rough couple of years - my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Ferguson and the Goose.

 

[rossihunter2]

Ultimately, the problem with legalization is this... take heroin or cocaine for example. What positive properties do they have to justify giving citizens legal access to them?

if this was the hoop it takes people to jump through then why are alcohol and cigarettes legalised either?

the pro of legalisation is the understanding that people have access to these things anyway so you might as well control the supply and reap various benefits as a society that come from those things - you treat it like alcohol or other similar drugs where they're age-limited, create infrastructure to support addictions, supply safer avenues for use and safer products themselves, all those programs funded via the tax on the product itself and it allows you to control pricing too so as to disincentivise use

the idea behind legalisation is that this stuff is going to be happening anyway

 

[cobrajet]

So in general, I agree with you both. Legalizing certain drugs is the lesser of two evils.
The reason its not so simple is:
1. We've sort of already seen what "legalized" drug usage can look like. Alcohol is generally legal, and so are many prescribed medications that have a propensity to directly feed and create addiction.
Both of those things are certainly "nuisances" to society. As long as there are access to these things, they'll be abused by people. That's just the nature of things.
So its not like anybody is going to believe that solving a drug problem is going to be completed by simply legalizing it and regulating it, because historically speaking, that's pretty much never proven to be the case.
2. It MIGHT "solve" the problem of drug dealers (not even necessarily users) who prey on addicts and people to make money. Legalizing and regulating the industry will largely make that a non-issue. However, the question then becomes... what happens to those people? Are we just to assume that if a drug dealer has no drugs to deal, or no buyers, he'll automatically start down the straight and narrow path, get a good job, contribute to society, etc?

Ultimately, the problem with legalization is this... take heroin or cocaine for example. What positive properties do they have to justify giving citizens legal access to them?
It took decades of medical studies to show that recreational marijuana use isn't the problem people think it is. It has numerous medicinal benefits.
Is that true of all drugs? I doubt it. I think it'd be tough to sell opioids as useful in any fashion other than pain management. And if that's the case, that's already occurring through pharmaceutical companies, and its already a big problem, even when it is legal to consume in certain contexts.

So in my opinion, simply allowing people to have legal access to heroin, cocaine, etc. isn't the right move. It might allow the government to tax it and "regulate" it, but end of day, what's it's useful purpose to begin with? The drugs we've seen legalized recently (marijuana, mushrooms, even LSD) have documented, medicinal, mental benefits that decades of research have uncovered.

You are correct and in the mean time, most of the addicts in Baltimore City are breaking into your houses and cars and stealing you blind. If they can’t get your personal items, they will rip out your copper pipes and cut off your catolytic converters. They snatch old ladies purses. They neglect their kids and even prostitute them out. And they HURT PEOPLE. I seen old ladies, who had their heads bashed in by a hammer, just so someone can take their money to get some heroin.

But I am the “militant“ asshole, for fighting what is called the “war on drugs.”

 

[rossihunter2]

It is not that I am unempathetic, but when you make the choice to do illegal drugs and end up hurting innocent people. I feel more empathetic toward the innocent people than the addicts. Especially the kids that suffer! What is your answer to all the crime and hurt these people cause? Do you see all the horror going on in Baltimore City on a daily basis? How many friends of yours have been killed here? Walk a mile in my shoes, before you judge me.

I took an oath to protect and serve. I have skin in the game. I have a duty to enforce the law. If the law is changed and laws are taken off the books, they will no longer be enforced.

you make it seem like an either/or
the vast majority of drug-users are non-violent and don't cause nuisance...
the vast majority of addicts are victims of various circumstances - no one would ever choose to be an addict...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

also the second best thing you do by legalising drugs is you get to tax them lol...

that's on top of the fact that you can ensure safe products, more healthy consumption and destigmatise drug-use and therefore enable more efficient solutions to those suffering with addiction

I’m not even saying go that far, but man all I know is the war on drugs was lost a long time ago and it’s time to change the approach.

So in general, I agree with you both. Legalizing certain drugs is the lesser of two evils.
The reason its not so simple is:
1. We've sort of already seen what "legalized" drug usage can look like. Alcohol is generally legal, and so are many prescribed medications that have a propensity to directly feed and create addiction.
Both of those things are certainly "nuisances" to society. As long as there are access to these things, they'll be abused by people. That's just the nature of things.
So its not like anybody is going to believe that solving a drug problem is going to be completed by simply legalizing it and regulating it, because historically speaking, that's pretty much never proven to be the case.
2. It MIGHT "solve" the problem of drug dealers (not even necessarily users) who prey on addicts and people to make money. Legalizing and regulating the industry will largely make that a non-issue. However, the question then becomes... what happens to those people? Are we just to assume that if a drug dealer has no drugs to deal, or no buyers, he'll automatically start down the straight and narrow path, get a good job, contribute to society, etc?

Ultimately, the problem with legalization is this... take heroin or cocaine for example. What positive properties do they have to justify giving citizens legal access to them?
It took decades of medical studies to show that recreational marijuana use isn't the problem people think it is. It has numerous medicinal benefits.
Is that true of all drugs? I doubt it. I think it'd be tough to sell opioids as useful in any fashion other than pain management. And if that's the case, that's already occurring through pharmaceutical companies, and its already a big problem, even when it is legal to consume in certain contexts.

So in my opinion, simply allowing people to have legal access to heroin, cocaine, etc. isn't the right move. It might allow the government to tax it and "regulate" it, but end of day, what's it's useful purpose to begin with? The drugs we've seen legalized recently (marijuana, mushrooms, even LSD) have documented, medicinal, mental benefits that decades of research have uncovered.

people get paid way more than me to solve these problems, so while I fully agree that it’s a complex situation that would likely take decades to resolve, I can’t fault myself for not having answers, but the professionals should see prohibition has failed, and different approaches have had great results worldwide, start by studying that.

It is not that I am unempathetic, but when you make the choice to do illegal drugs and end up hurting innocent people. I feel more empathetic toward the innocent people than the addicts. Especially the kids that suffer! What is your answer to all the crime and hurt these people cause? Do you see all the horror going on in Baltimore City on a daily basis? How many friends of yours have been killed here? Walk a mile in my shoes, before you judge me.

I took an oath to protect and serve. I have skin in the game. I have a duty to enforce the law. If the law is changed and laws are taken off the books, they will no longer be enforced.

And how do you think it reached that point? You think police beating the shit out of corner kids and arresting them on humbles has been effective? Man I’m not absolving these dudes, I know that the drug game is full of absolutely horrible who do unspeakable and unforgivable shit, and I’m not saying that every cop is a bad guy or bad cop, what I’m saying is that the game and the rules these people have to play by are fundamentally broken. If the approach to drugs was rerouted 20 years ago god knows how much progress could’ve been made by now, but we stayed the course and it’s gotten exponentially worse for both sides with each generation.

 

[rossihunter2]

You are correct and in the mean time, most of the addicts in Baltimore City are breaking into your houses and cars and stealing you blind. If they can’t get your personal items, they will rip out your copper pipes and cut off your catolytic converters. They snatch old ladies purses. They neglect their kids and even prostitute them out. And they HURT PEOPLE. I seen old ladies, who had their heads bashed in by a hammer, just so someone can take their money to get some heroin.

But I am the “militant“ asshole, for fighting what is called the “war on drugs.”

you have been radicalised dude and somehow these "addicts" have become the monster under the bed for you - all those things are tragic but they're also not solved by getting rid of drugs

poor and desperate people and communities will remain poor and desperate communities even after drugs disappear

also feels pretty awful for someone who was a police officer to make such gross generalisations about an entire city of people

 

[cobrajet]

you make it seem like an either/or
the vast majority of drug-users are non-violent and don't cause nuisance...
the vast majority of addicts are victims of various circumstances - no one would ever choose to be an addict...

So as long as they are committing property crimes instead of crimes against persons, it’s all good? Most addicts in the City of Baltimore are committing crimes because of their addiction. You must have never lived in a major crime ridden, drug infested, American City if you think the vast majority of drug users don’t cause a nuisance. No offense, but I find your statement insane, based on my life experiences.

 

[Deebo813]

you literally cant get rid of drugs… its like getting rid of guns.. cant and not gonna happen ever