The Random Thought Thread

[purplepittabread88]

Yeah but the problem is... its not a special teams problem. On drives that didn't result in turnovers, the Ravens did fine on special teams. Punt team was good. Kickoff team was good. I don't expect teams to have significant kickoff return yardage, because frankly, it just doesn't happen in the NFL anymore.

Its a testament to turnovers. They didn't have to work as hard on offense, because they forced turnovers and we played sloppy. They didn't.

That's a fair point on kickoffs they really have made it hard to return. I think punt returns or a guy who can create magic by himself every now and then is so undervalued.

 

[purplepittabread88]

Gm mode- I would offer a lot for Cordell Patterson. I think his value is insane that in 7 years he has taken 7 kicks back and is an anytime threat. I'd even offer a 4th for him but I know that isn't how value is seen.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Agree to disagree because you clearly know everything. I’m sticking to my guns in regards to us dedicating the offseason to stopping the run. Anyone can tell you this that watched us this past season. We couldn’t set the edges and had difficulty stopping the runs up the middle on occasion. Williams and Judon are overrated and overpaid.

And here's the thing... we can have a conversation about the weaknesses of run defense. We can talk about the gigantic failures in the Browns game, or about how we got run on pretty badly by the 49ers.

But at the end of the day, if you're evaluating the run defense based on a single game sample size, which is what you're doing here, you can't possibly look at yourself in the mirror and be like "yes, I think I'm doing complete, objective analysis".

This is actually very common among Ravens fans, and its a MAJOR flaw. The postseason analysis is limited, almost exclusively, to the last game you saw. We pretend like the only problems we have were what we saw against the Titans.

But the funny thing is... we learned nothing from the prior year. I can go pull like a hundred posts from various users on these boards from this very time (or earlier) one year ago, and most of them would have been talking about how literally the only thing that mattered for 2020 was offensive line. Offensive line, offensive line, offensive line. We needed to draft 4 guys and sign 3 more. We needed to get rid of 3-4 starters immediately. Skura sucked. Hurst was garbage. Bozeman wasn't good enough to be a starter. All because we got pushed around in one game.

And then something comical happened... all that analysis was wrong. We did practically nothing to address the Oline, and they just got better. Scheme got better. Players played better.

That's the problem with one-game sampling anything, regardless of whether its a playoff game or SB. Its not always an accurate representation of anything.

Ravens told you where they thought their weaknesses were based on their offseason... as they normally do. They're right a LOT more than the fans are.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Gm mode- I would offer a lot for Cordell Patterson. I think his value is insane that in 7 years he has taken 7 kicks back and is an anytime threat. I'd even offer a 4th for him but I know that isn't how value is seen.

Yeah I wouldn't...
1. 7 returns in 7 years is misleading. Same stats say 2 in 3 years, which isn't that great.
2. He doesn't do punts. He's purely, and exclusively, a kickoff return specialist. And he touches the ball, on average, less than 2 times per game.
So you've got a guy who's getting (rounding up) two touches per game, and he's worth one TD per season.

Here's some more context...
DeAnthony Thomas averages 19 yards/kickoff return in 2019. Patterson averaged 29.

So Patterson gets you about 20 yards/game (10 more yards on two touches) and gets you ONE TD per season.

We're really giving up a 4th round pick (or frankly any pick) for a guy who gets you 20 yards/game and one score per season?

Seriously?

There's a reason why he's so cheap in the marketplace.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Gm mode- I would offer a lot for Cordell Patterson. I think his value is insane that in 7 years he has taken 7 kicks back and is an anytime threat. I'd even offer a 4th for him but I know that isn't how value is seen.

In terms of scoring, its even worse...

256 regular season football games last season. A grand total of 14 kick return/punt return TDs. 7 from each.

That's less than one per week. Comes out to 1 per 18.3 games. That means on any given Sunday, you likely won't see a single punt or kickoff return TD from ANY player on ANY team.

I'm not spending money for that. I'm doing what most teams do, which is using mid-to-late round draft picks on players who can contribute on special teams and also act as a 3rd or 4th WR/weapon on offense. They make bigger contributions on offense than on ST.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

In terms of scoring, its even worse...

256 regular season football games last season. A grand total of 14 kick return/punt return TDs. 7 from each.

That's less than one per week. Comes out to 1 per 18.3 games. That means on any given Sunday, you likely won't see a single punt or kickoff return TD from ANY player on ANY team.

I'm not spending money for that. I'm doing what most teams do, which is using mid-to-late round draft picks on players who can contribute on special teams and also act as a 3rd or 4th WR/weapon on offense. They make bigger contributions on offense than on ST.

Yeah kick returners have almost zero value, don’t fumble and get to the 25 if you don’t have a touchback, that’s all.

punt returners, if you’re an elite offensive team, you don’t need anything more than security, however if you’re an elite defensive team I think elite punt returners hold a tremendous amount of value.

I wouldn’t want Patterson for the simple thought he doesn’t return punts, id give a 6th for a true elite punt returner even if they do nothing on offense, it’s a game changer for a team like us having such an elite defense and dominating ToP, sneaking a quick easy score in because we fielded at the 50 and returned to the 30.

That’s actually the main reason I’m so big on the duvernay and proche picks, you won’t convince me one of those 2 wont end up a really high end punt returner

 

[Deebo813]

How? They could have pulled somebody off the street and done the same thing.

What did Henry do to force the Ravens to turn the ball over and drop passes? Was he playing defensive line and pushing us around and I missed it?

I mean this sincerely... some of you need to go back and watch that game again. Its pretty simple. When the Ravens gave the Titans a short field via turnovers, they scored. When we didn't, they didn't.

We scored 12 points. We lost because we scored 12 points in a playoff game. We gave up 28 points because we gift wrapped them the ball on on our side field like 4 times.

Here's a test: somebody look up the starting field position for the Titans 4 TD drives.
Then tell me what Henry's stats were for those TD drives, other than the 66 yard run.

Its going to blow your mind how little he impacted.

I 100% agree with the field positioning. As i was watched i complained about the same thing: however, henry and that run game is the reason for that bomb that was a td. We were legit scared and couldnt tackle henry. Henry is a brusier. Tackling and trying to tackle him gets tiring and wears out the players. So you want to take away a 66yrd run that potentially put titans up 21-6? Cmon man you cant do that. Thats taking away credit from the guy. That guy killed us. Idk if we watched the same game but derrick henry had dam near 200 yrds on us

 

[Deebo813]

And look, I'm not saying the Ravens did great against Henry, because they didn't.

But there is not a sane, rationale person on this planet who watches that game and thinks we lost because Henry bulldozed us. Look at the scoring drives. Look at the turnovers. Look at the field position.

Like since we're clearly just going to the Box Score (which is bad analysis), look at the damn box score:
We had 2x as many first downs
We ran 40 MORE PLAYS. 40 MORE PLAYS.
We outgained them by 230 yards
While they had 217 rushing yards, which is a ton, we had 185. It wasn't even a landslide in rushing
We had a better YPC than they did (6.4 vs 5.9)
We had the ball for over 4 minutes longer. So even after all those running plays, the Titans didn't even win time of possession

So look at that and tell me who won the game?

Except there's four stats that matter:
Turnovers: Titans 0, Ravens 3
Red Zone Efficiency : Titans 3/3, Ravens 1/4
4th Down Efficiency: Ravens 0/4... 0 for freaking 4
# of possessions starting on opponent side of field: Titans 3, Ravens 0

The Ravens had ZERO drives that began beyond their own 30 yard line.

This isn't rocket science folks.

No matter how you try to twist and turn it, henry gave us hell and was a big reason for our L. Yes they had good field position but does that mean henry was suppose to do what he did? You think our guys wanted to get stiff armed as much as they did. We had to gang tackle that big mf everytime. What other rb in nfl that you basically have to have atleast 2 guys to take him down? You know why we didnt have many turnovers? Because tannehill didnt have to pass much with henry on his team and henry big ass wasnt fumbling lol..

It dnt matter if it was a competitve game, they were still gonna run it down our throats with henry. Score was 14-6 when henry broke that 66 yarder then threw a jump pass for a td. When you have a rb thats 6-3 230 and runs a 4.5, your redzone eff is gonna be pretty high vs a team that struggled to set edges vs run all year. Dean pees and derrick henry deserves the most credit for that game.

 

[rossihunter2]

I really wish we had a game changing special teams returner again. both of our superbowls we had a game changer at returner. the last few years, we have just been praying someone could catch the ball. I get letting Cyrus jones go, but when your offense is shit nothing sparks you like a good punt return or a kick return to get you to midfield. I think it's a super underrated component we have been missing. Obviously we will give the new young wrs a chance this year - but I would honestly be super happy if Devin or James turned into a top 5 returner and never caught a ball on offense (exaggerate but you get the point)

I mean I get your point but I was more talking about the rest of the unit - the guys on punt coverage and returns just didn’t have it last year

 

[rmcjacket23]

No matter how you try to twist and turn it, henry gave us hell and was a big reason for our L. Yes they had good field position but does that mean henry was suppose to do what he did? You think our guys wanted to get stiff armed as much as they did. We had to gang tackle that big mf everytime. What other rb in nfl that you basically have to have atleast 2 guys to take him down? You know why we didnt have many turnovers? Because tannehill didnt have to pass much with henry on his team and henry big ass wasnt fumbling lol..

It dnt matter if it was a competitve game, they were still gonna run it down our throats with henry. Score was 14-6 when henry broke that 66 yarder then threw a jump pass for a td. When you have a rb thats 6-3 230 and runs a 4.5, your redzone eff is gonna be pretty high vs a team that struggled to set edges vs run all year. Dean pees and derrick henry deserves the most credit for that game.

No, it means if they had the same field position, and Henry did nothing, they still would have beat us. We scored 12 points. We didn't score 12 points because our defense couldn't get off the field and they sustained long drives against us and wore us down. Our offense scored 12 points because they played sloppy football for like 3 quarters of the game.

The Henry stuff is just for show. It doesn't change the outcome. It just makes the beating less

 

[rmcjacket23]

I 100% agree with the field positioning. As i was watched i complained about the same thing: however, henry and that run game is the reason for that bomb that was a td. We were legit scared and couldnt tackle henry. Henry is a brusier. Tackling and trying to tackle him gets tiring and wears out the players. So you want to take away a 66yrd run that potentially put titans up 21-6? Cmon man you cant do that. Thats taking away credit from the guy. That guy killed us. Idk if we watched the same game but derrick henry had dam near 200 yrds on us

I can do it. It adds context to a conversation. If you have 200 yards, and a third of it came on a single play, is that a great day? In my opinion, no. It means you had one great play and then did your job as expected the rest of the game.

People make it seem like he was barreling for 8-9 yard runs on every play. That's deflating. That's when you're getting owned. That's what we did to teams all year. We didn't break off 40,50 yard runs that often (except for Lamar). Ingram would just get 6-7 yards every play, which defeats the defense.

 

[JO_75]

Madden 20 will be the last game featuring the Washington Redskins, sort of. EA announced they will remove the Redskins name and logo in a title update for Madden 21. The game will be shipped with the Redskins in game but that will change in updates.

 

[cdp]

I can do it. It adds context to a conversation. If you have 200 yards, and a third of it came on a single play, is that a great day? In my opinion, no. It means you had one great play and then did your job as expected the rest of the game.

People make it seem like he was barreling for 8-9 yard runs on every play. That's deflating. That's when you're getting owned. That's what we did to teams all year. We didn't break off 40,50 yard runs that often (except for Lamar). Ingram would just get 6-7 yards every play, which defeats the defense.

Overall I agree, but explosive plays help you win a game and those kind of plays really deflate a defense. Harbaugh and Wink stress this every year: "we gotta minimize explosive plays".

 

[rmcjacket23]

Overall I agree, but explosive plays help you win a game and those kind of plays really deflate a defense. Harbaugh and Wink stress this every year: "we gotta minimize explosive plays".

Sure. But that play didn't win the game for them either.

A 45 yard TD pass is an explosive play too. Henry was on the sidelines for that one.

 

[SepticeyePoe]

 

[BloodRaven]

His mom is as slow as his footwork

 

[RavensMania]

I could probably write a book on the litany of problems, both from their organization and a societal standpoint, but I'll summarize it like this:
1. I agree on the lack of HR, though I will say, its not like an NFL team really requires a robust HR department. You've already got player personnel departments, that oversee the players, which is the bulk of your workforce. I don't think they need a team of like 20 people to manage the other like 100-200 people they employ, but one person obviously isn't enough.
That being said... I'm not sure that would have changed here. An HR specialist who actually "took a stance" in these regards likely would have found themselves terminated also. Culture isn't usually set by HR necessarily.
2. I'm not suggesting its "right". I'm suggesting this doesn't come anywhere close to the level of forcing a private, for-profit organization owner to sell the team, nor is it anywhere near the "bombshell" level the media makes it out to be. Its mostly just falls into the "cancel culture" idea of anybody being even remotely involved, could have known, should have known, etc. in these cases deserves to be ostracized from society until the end of mankind.

And nobody will ever be able to convince me that's justifiable or a strong argument.

it definitely was a let down from the rumors that came out nor do i think that could force snyder's hand into selling the team.

that have an assistant with no where near the competence of a generalist. of course they don't need a 20 person team, but 3 or 4 would probably be fine and always one of them be a Generalist! In a decent organization the person wouldn't get fired but this is the Redskins we are talking about. Then again it isn't the Redskins anymore. lol

I know more about this team than anyone on this board and what he has done from day one in firing everyone of the people in the building on Jack Kent Cooke.

 

[rmcjacket23]

it definitely was a let down from the rumors that came out nor do i think that could force snyder's hand into selling the team.

that have an assistant with no where near the competence of a generalist. of course they don't need a 20 person team, but 3 or 4 would probably be fine and always one of them be a Generalist! In a decent organization the person wouldn't get fired but this is the Redskins we are talking about. Then again it isn't the Redskins anymore. lol

I know more about this team than anyone on this board and what he has done from day one in firing everyone of the people in the building on Jack Kent Cooke.

OK, but that's the problem.

Snyder's incompetence is well know. He knows nothing about how to identify talent, much let alone identify people who know how to identify talent. But that, in it of itself, is nowhere near a "sell the team" worthy notion.

People are merely using this as a catalyst to tie a bow around all the reason why Snyder should sell, including the fact that he literally doesn't know how to put quality product on the field. A valid problem for fans, but not anywhere near the level of "removal of power".

The one thing he does know how to do, is raise valuation, which he has done. You could argue pretty much every NFL team has done that in the last 20 years, but the Redskins are still among the top 5 most valuable NFL franchises, despite the fact that they never win anything.

For me, this article identified nothing other than what we already knew... he's incompetent, he's a bad owner, and the dream is that he sells. He's Peter Angelos, with less tenure, and is actually less of a POS.

 

[BloodRaven]

Hot take: If Crockett Gillmore wasnt an injury bust he would have been a perennial pro bowl/AP type tight end.

 

[rossihunter2]

Hot take: If Crockett Gillmore wasnt an injury bust he would have been a perennial pro bowl/AP type tight end.

i dont think so tbh - he was super physical which is great but he wasnt athletic enough with good enough hands or an understanding of how to get open enough to be a threat as a receiver