The Random Thought Thread

[Davesta]

If Lamar is missing OTAs because he is getting more out of Dedeaux than Urban, maybe it's time to move on from Urban. Obviously if that's not the reason then there's no reason to move on from Urban. I just can't make heads or tails of this and I personally won't accept its voluntary and he's a vet now so no big deal. That's not Lamar and that's not how QB1s behave.

There is no Aversion to working and no one loves football more than Lamar. So it's gotta be that Lamar is less than thrilled about how OTAs are compared to something else. How could this be anything other than an opportunity cost situation.

If it is, the Ravens should be trying to figure out a way to make Lamar happier and therefore more successful.

I Don’t think he’s missing OTAs because his dislike for how it’s setup. I think it’s about money, but Lamar being Lamar.. he’s not Gon publicity call them out.

They probably lowballed him and his camp didn’t wanna go with the back and forth so they left EDC on read lol.

But it’s all a guess at this point..
That’s what we love about Lamar. And why media hates him.. there’s nobody to give them scoops

 

[ndub]

I mean even if he did choose Dedeaux over Urban, who can blame him? Urban has very little experience churning out good QB prospects, whereas Dedeaux has plenty.

 

[Simba]

If Lamar is missing OTAs because he is getting more out of Dedeaux than Urban, maybe it's time to move on from Urban. Obviously if that's not the reason then there's no reason to move on from Urban. I just can't make heads or tails of this and I personally won't accept its voluntary and he's a vet now so no big deal. That's not Lamar and that's not how QB1s behave.

There is no Aversion to working and no one loves football more than Lamar. So it's gotta be that Lamar is less than thrilled about how OTAs are compared to something else. How could this be anything other than an opportunity cost situation.

If it is, the Ravens should be trying to figure out a way to make Lamar happier and therefore more successful.

It's simply a business decision. Whether it's right or wrong is a fine debate, but this isn't some doom or gloom thing here in my opinion.

The reality is that this is worse for optics than anything football related. There's nothing happening this week that will affect what he gives on Sundays come September.

 

[Davesta]

It's simply a business decision. Whether it's right or wrong is a fine debate, but this isn't some doom or gloom thing here in my opinion.

The reality is that this is worse for optics than anything football related. There's nothing happening this week that will affect what he gives on Sundays come September.

Yeah.. we shouldn’t be surprised he’s missing OTAs, going into his final year. He’s just not being a Diva about it like Kyler Murray or Arod. Unless he holds out for mandatory training camp, I ain’t trippin

 

[Simba]

Yeah.. we shouldn’t be surprised he’s missing OTAs, going into his final year. He’s just not being a Diva about it like Kyler Murray or Arod. Unless he holds out for mandatory training camp, I ain’t trippin

Put me in the camp that's not surprised/never expected him to show anyways. This is how these big contract negotiations go.

 

[UPennChem]

It's simply a business decision. Whether it's right or wrong is a fine debate, but this isn't some doom or gloom thing here in my opinion.

The reality is that this is worse for optics than anything football related. There's nothing happening this week that will affect what he gives on Sundays come September.

Exactly this. Again I'm not saying the world is ending Lamar hates it here blah blah blah. But you can't tell me this nothing because it is something. It's behavior outside the norm for Lamar.

As you said it's a business decision for Lamar. That's exactly what I was trying to say. The guy clearly believes for one reason or another its better to not be there. It certainly will have no impact on how he plays on Sunday.

And as you said it's primarily optics. Lamar is stirring controversy and media attention that we know he doesn't want (see his tweets to try and get out in front of it) . But he chose to do this anyway.

As a bored fan I'm just trying to rationalize what may be the reason that Lamar has decided this is what's best for him.

 

[UPennChem]

I Don’t think he’s missing OTAs because his dislike for how it’s setup. I think it’s about money, but Lamar being Lamar.. he’s not Gon publicity call them out.

They probably lowballed him and his camp didn’t wanna go with the back and forth so they left EDC on read lol.

But it’s all a guess at this point..
That’s what we love about Lamar. And why media hates him.. there’s nobody to give them scoops

Can you explain further? Because I find this idea confusing with the info I think I have.

It's seemed overwhelming clear that the Ravens are begging Lamar to come in and sign a mega contract. He won't do it because he thinks that's the wrong decision for him to make. Ok Lamar you do you.

But then why is his not coming to OTAs money related. The money issue is actually 100% in Lamars court

 

[UPennChem]

quit making something out of nothing

Maybe you're right! I'm just totally unconvinced. See my other replies right before this. I don't think this doom and gloom by any means. But it's hard to sit back and watch all the facts and say this is an easy story to understand.

 

[Simba]

Exactly this. Again I'm not saying the world is ending Lamar hates it here blah blah blah. But you can't tell me this nothing because it is something. It's behavior outside the norm for Lamar.

As you said it's a business decision for Lamar. That's exactly what I was trying to say. The guy clearly believes for one reason or another its better to not be there. It certainly will have no impact on how he plays on Sunday.

And as you said it's primarily optics. Lamar is stirring controversy and media attention that we know he doesn't want (see his tweets to try and get out in front of it) . But he chose to do this anyway.

As a bored fan I'm just trying to rationalize what may be the reason that Lamar has decided this is what's best for him.

Deshaun Watson happened. A fully guaranteed contract of that magnitude changes the landscape entirely. Lamar knows what leverage he has now.

 

[Davesta]

Can you explain further? Because I find this idea confusing with the info I think I have.

It's seemed overwhelming clear that the Ravens are begging Lamar to come in and sign a mega contract. He won't do it because he thinks that's the wrong decision for him to make. Ok Lamar you do you.

But then why is his not coming to OTAs money related. The money issue is actually 100% in Lamars court

The info you have if the info we all have. And it’s all coming from the front office side. Nobody really knows why Lamar hasn’t signed. It’s all assumptions to this point. My assumption when I hear “we’re ready to talk, Lamar just busy..” from EDC and company is that they offer Lamar something low and Lamar went silent on them.
You tell me you’re ready to pay me life-changing money, I’m talking. EDC might’ve told his camp that’s the highest he’ll go, ala Flacco’s contract negotiations. And instead of going back and forth, Lamar said “alright, bet.”

But like I said, who knows? Just forum talks during the slow off-season. Watch he shows up next week lol

 

[UPennChem]

Deshaun Watson happened. A fully guaranteed contract of that magnitude changes the landscape entirely. Lamar knows what leverage he has now.

Right but I'm still confused.... Honestly I'm sorry for being annoying. Let's play this out.

Deshaun Watson shakes up the QB market.
Lamar believes he's worth X therefore.
Clearly the Ravens have not offered X

The above are facts.
The below is speculation

The Ravens know they have lowballed compared to what Lamar wants and from a media perspective make it seem like they're ready to negotiate but Lamar isn't. Maybe that's true and Lamar is trying to pull a Flacco. Maybe Lamar wants to hit the open market because he knows he can get a Watson like contract if he does. I really doubt it is that one but I guess it is a possibility.

How does any of this then correlate to him not showing up to OTAs? Is that supposed to make the Ravens say we miss Lamar, Eric just give him what he wants? Is it supposed to scare the Ravens into thinking he might want to test the Market? If you think it's about money then this has to be about Lamar trying to continuously get more leverage towards the contract that he wants.

If it is contract related, I would say the situation is more doom and gloom than we originally thought. I personally don't buy that it's contract related. I believe if Lamar is pulling a Flacco he'd be doing everything he could to maximize how good he's gonna be this year. Including going to OTAs to practice with his new rookie center and receivers.

 

[UPennChem]

The info you have if the info we all have. And it’s all coming from the front office side. Nobody really knows why Lamar hasn’t signed. It’s all assumptions to this point. My assumption when I hear “we’re ready to talk, Lamar just busy..” from EDC and company is that they offer Lamar something low and Lamar went silent on them.
You tell me you’re ready to pay me life-changing money, I’m talking. EDC might’ve told his camp that’s the highest he’ll go, ala Flacco’s contract negotiations. And instead of going back and forth, Lamar said “alright, bet.”

But like I said, who knows? Just forum talks during the slow off-season. Watch he shows up next week lol

Thanks for elaborating. See my reply to simba

 

[Simba]

Right but I'm still confused.... Honestly I'm sorry for being annoying. Let's play this out.

Deshaun Watson shakes up the QB market.
Lamar believes he's worth X therefore.
Clearly the Ravens have not offered X

The above are facts.
The below is speculation

The Ravens know they have lowballed compared to what Lamar wants and from a media perspective make it seem like they're ready to negotiate but Lamar isn't. Maybe that's true and Lamar is trying to pull a Flacco. Maybe Lamar wants to hit the open market because he knows he can get a Watson like contract if he does. I really doubt it is that one but I guess it is a possibility.

How does any of this then correlate to him not showing up to OTAs? Is that supposed to make the Ravens say we miss Lamar, Eric just give him what he wants? Is it supposed to scare the Ravens into thinking he might want to test the Market? If you think it's about money then this has to be about Lamar trying to continuously get more leverage towards the contract that he wants.

If it is contract related, I would say the situation is more doom and gloom than we originally thought. I personally don't buy that it's contract related. I believe if Lamar is pulling a Flacco he'd be doing everything he could to maximize how good he's gonna be this year. Including going to OTAs to practice with his new rookie center and receivers.

I don't think lowball is the right word here. Lamar was smart to play this out. Him and his camp knew there were other QBs getting paid this offseason. Rodgers was due and that was probably the one he had the most eyes on. And then Watson happened and that shook everything up. This is strictly opinion, but I'd guess if the Ravens came to Lamar with a fully guaranteed contract of similar magnitude that Watson got, he'd have signed on the dotted line. But the FO also has to have some reservations about doing that, and rightfully so.

As far as the OTA stuff, it's Lamar drawing a line in the sand and saying if you want me there that badly, let's talk about that fully guaranteed option. That doesn't mean it's a holdout situation though. It's just negotiating and trying to get that offer to where he wants it. Maybe it happens this year and maybe it doesn't, but all signs point to him showing up when he has to be here.

As far as the football stuff, you can just miss me with that. As great as it would be to have him there, this has 0 impact on how our season goes. Working with Linderbaum and the WRs in shorts in May isn't going to have any impact on how well he does. He knows he's going to get his money one way or another. He doesn't have to show up at OTAs for optics to do so.

 

[UPennChem]

I don't think lowball is the right word here. Lamar was smart to play this out. Him and his camp knew there were other QBs getting paid this offseason. Rodgers was due and that was probably the one he had the most eyes on. And then Watson happened and that shook everything up. This is strictly opinion, but I'd guess if the Ravens came to Lamar with a fully guaranteed contract of similar magnitude that Watson got, he'd have signed on the dotted line. But the FO also has to have some reservations about doing that, and rightfully so.

As far as the OTA stuff, it's Lamar drawing a line in the sand and saying if you want me there that badly, let's talk about that fully guaranteed option. That doesn't mean it's a holdout situation though. It's just negotiating and trying to get that offer to where he wants it. Maybe it happens this year and maybe it doesn't, but all signs point to him showing up when he has to be here.

As far as the football stuff, you can just miss me with that. As great as it would be to have him there, this has 0 impact on how our season goes. Working with Linderbaum and the WRs in shorts in May isn't going to have any impact on how well he does. He knows he's going to get his money one way or another. He doesn't have to show up at OTAs for optics to do so.

What you're saying makes sense to me. But it actually begs a really huge question for the Ravens.

Lamar is on the last year of his contract.
Lamar is asking for X right now.

If Lamar plays this year out without signing a deal then the following options are possible.

Lamar is allowed to hit the open market. In which he could sign elsewhere or with the Ravens. But even if he does sign with us, at that point because of the demand for him he'll sign for Y where Y is higher than X.

The other option is you are forced to Franchise Tag him in which you just delay option 1 by one year.

Personally it seems to me that Lamar has all the leverage and as much as that sucks for the Ravens, if you're committed to Lamar, you should cut your losses now and mitigate the risk of losing him and or having to pay an even higher premium.

It does not help Lamar to hold out so that's not even a worry in my mind for one second.

Maybe the OTAs thing is just his first new opportunity to totally within the rules put even more pressure on the Ravens. Which I now believe has been your position the whole time.

If this is the case, the situation is less comfortable than I personally had originally felt it to be. I don't see how the Ravens if they are committed to Lamar can do anything other than give him the contract he wants right now.

 

[Simba]

What you're saying makes sense to me. But it actually begs a really huge question for the Ravens.

Lamar is on the last year of his contract.
Lamar is asking for X right now.

If Lamar plays this year out without signing a deal then the following options are possible.

Lamar is allowed to hit the open market. In which he could sign elsewhere or with the Ravens. But even if he does sign with us, at that point because of the demand for him he'll sign for Y where Y is higher than X.

The other option is you are forced to Franchise Tag him in which you just delay option 1 by one year.

Personally it seems to me that Lamar has all the leverage and as much as that sucks for the Ravens, if you're committed to Lamar, you should cut your losses now and mitigate the risk of losing him and or having to pay an even higher premium.

It does not help Lamar to hold out so that's not even a worry in my mind for one second.

Maybe the OTAs thing is just hid first new opportunity to totally within the rules put even more pressure on the Ravens. Which I now believe has been your position the whole time.

And I get that, and that's why it's such a tricky situation here. I'm sure the Ravens would love to get ahead of it but the risk and long-term commitment has gotten so much larger. I think we all know what Lamar can be and that's a really damn good football player, but we'd all be foolish to ignore that he's had some up and down moments in his career. The Ravens almost surely recognize that as well. You committed to this with Lamar and you have to ride it out, but it's not easy to just accept that there's no out if it doesn't work out and some more of that down play sneaks in over the life of that contract.

But yeah, my main point is that this all has to be somewhat related to the contract. Have to remember that the media has 0 in to what Lamar and his camp are thinking. We're only getting what the Ravens are leaking and that's half of the story. They aren't going to leak that Lamar wants a fully guaranteed deal or something close to it, but every single agent in the league knows that's the new bar. Teams have to work through that now and see if that's doable all because one team decided to fuck up the whole system.

 

[UPennChem]

And I get that, and that's why it's such a tricky situation here. I'm sure the Ravens would love to get ahead of it but the risk and long-term commitment has gotten so much larger. I think we all know what Lamar can be and that's a really damn good football player, but we'd all be foolish to ignore that he's had some up and down moments in his career. The Ravens almost surely recognize that as well. You committed to this with Lamar and you have to ride it out, but it's not easy to just accept that there's no out if it doesn't work out and some more of that down play sneaks in over the life of that contract.

But yeah, my main point is that this all has to be somewhat related to the contract. Have to remember that the media has 0 in to what Lamar and his camp are thinking. We're only getting what the Ravens are leaking and that's half of the story. They aren't going to leak that Lamar wants a fully guaranteed deal or something close to it, but every single agent in the league knows that's the new bar. Teams have to work through that now and see if that's doable all because one team decided to fuck up the whole system.

Yeah that all makes sense. I wonder if there will be a shift towards shorter guaranteed contracts. Like would Lamar be interested in a fully guaranteed 3 year 150m deal?

 

[Davesta]

Yeah that all makes sense. I wonder if there will be a shift towards shorter guaranteed contracts. Like would Lamar be interested in a fully guaranteed 3 year 150m deal?

The Watson deal definitely f’ed things up. The bar got raised. That’s probably why Stevie B decided to talk to the media after 3-4 years of silence. To publicly bang on the Browns for giving Watson the bag like that

 

[Simba]

Yeah that all makes sense. I wonder if there will be a shift towards shorter guaranteed contracts. Like would Lamar be interested in a fully guaranteed 3 year 150m deal?

Harder for a team to do that because a flat structure is $50M on the cap. If you drop if to even $30M in year one, that's $60M on each of the next 2 years.

 

[UPennChem]

Harder for a team to do that because a flat structure is $50M on the cap. If you drop if to even $30M in year one, that's $60M on each of the next 2 years.

Absolutely, but that's the tradeoff for having a shorter term investment. I don't think we as fans could possibly know what is going to be intersection of what is best for Lamar and the Ravens and then the structure of that contract lol. I guess as a final question here, is it even possible that Lamar has a new contract before the season, or is it actually a truly forgone conclusion that Lamar isn't talking until after the season?

If the latter, oh boy things are gonna get crazy next year.

 

[redrum52]

yep, I've always thought the Packers would've drafted Bateman, but than again you never can tell with the Packers and WR's in the 1st round.

Think they are stubborn like us in the sence of sticking to their board more than them not trying to take a chance on wrs. Feel there a few guys they would have taken had they fallen.

If Lamar is missing OTAs because he is getting more out of Dedeaux than Urban, maybe it's time to move on from Urban. Obviously if that's not the reason then there's no reason to move on from Urban. I just can't make heads or tails of this and I personally won't accept its voluntary and he's a vet now so no big deal. That's not Lamar and that's not how QB1s behave.

There is no Aversion to working and no one loves football more than Lamar. So it's gotta be that Lamar is less than thrilled about how OTAs are compared to something else. How could this be anything other than an opportunity cost situation.

If it is, the Ravens should be trying to figure out a way to make Lamar happier and therefore more successful.

Some people feel like they might be getting more out of their guy instead of the team guy. Could also be about the money but who knows.