The 2020 Offseason Thread

[rossihunter2]

I hear Boykin is looking pretty good but we heard this last year in training camp. Are we going to see a much better Boykin this year?

as ravensmania has said - the coaches have talked about the game slowing down for him which is important because he was clearly struggling a little with everything last year and his role was kept very simple

its a good sign that he's being physical with dbs in camp because last year he got to win on pure athleticism which is great but not how he's going to win consistently in the NFL if he wants a career

 

[rossihunter2]

I doubt it, our training camp heroes never produce.

tons of training camp heros this year - if they never produce we're gonna have a long season of losses lol

 

[Simba]

i 100% agree on special teams being the way the back end of the roster fills out - but with the way that the modern special teams is set up with the no-running-start stuff means that you need more athletic players running downfield - linebackers arent the prototype special teams players anymore - yes chris board is a good special teams player but its more likely a good special teams player is either a DB or a WR

your point about cyrus jones is well made and that 1 spot goes over to the WR group for sure which is why i think we carry 5 corners and not 6
but the safeties on our roster currently all play special teams including both starters (and the 5th S is a special teams specialist who will almost certainly make the roster based on that prowess)

so that's a minimum of 10 dbs already and that still feels a bit light

ST will be an interesting make up because we're losing 2 guys that played or would have played there a lot to starting roles now (Clark and Elliott) so DB isn't as stacked on STers as it usually is, especially at the CB position where would could have 0 guys that really will play ST consistently. Makes it all the more important to keep the S group strong with STers.

On the main coverage units, you're looking at Hill, Moore, Bowser, Board, Harrison, Levine, Richards, and Stone as the guys who will likely see most snaps. That's 8 and you need 9/10 depending on if it's a punt (Cox and Koch) or kickoff (Tucker). Think you'll have other guys playing there like Edwards, Fort, Averett, Proche, etc. who may not be core guys due to other responsibilities, but that's how you're rounding out the unit.

Basically, if you're going short somewhere on the roster, DB isn't likely to be it.

Even the inactive list will be interesting... with only 5 inactive now, you're looking at QB3, RB4, OL9, DL5/6, and maybe CB5 that sit consistently.

 

[rossihunter2]

ST will be an interesting make up because we're losing 2 guys that played or would have played there a lot to starting roles now (Clark and Elliott) so DB isn't as stacked on STers as it usually is, especially at the CB position where would could have 0 guys that really will play ST consistently. Makes it all the more important to keep the S group strong with STers.

On the main coverage units, you're looking at Hill, Moore, Bowser, Board, Harrison, Levine, Richards, and Stone as the guys who will likely see most snaps. That's 8 and you need 9/10 depending on if it's a punt (Cox and Koch) or kickoff (Tucker). Think you'll have other guys playing there like Edwards, Fort, Averett, Proche, etc. who may not be core guys due to other responsibilities, but that's how you're rounding out the unit.

Basically, if you're going short somewhere on the roster, DB isn't likely to be it.

Even the inactive list will be interesting... with only 5 inactive now, you're looking at QB3, RB4, OL9, DL5/6, and maybe CB5 that sit consistently.

yeah i think you're right about the first 8 - gus and LJ Fort id add to the first group also tbh - plays a lot of special teams even as the number 2 back and now as the likely 3/4 he's going to be even more valuable on special teams - he's a big strong powerful guy who gets downfield in a hurry

the only one of the 8 im not confident about as a special teamer and that's just because ive not seen anything of it is malik harrison but that's not to say he wont be part of that group of stalwarts - but LJ fort will be playing special teams even if he's starting because that's a facet of a game that he's really effective in too

in terms of the inactives the only thing id disagree with is the RB4 sitting - both RB 3 and RB 4 are both going to be playing special teams snaps so id fully expect them to be active - hill may well be one of our gunners and gus is going to play on kick coverages too so id expect all the RBs to be active

the fact that the list of potential specialists doesnt include any corners does lead me to believe we might go only 4 deep at corner on gameday with levine as an emergency option if we somehow lose 2 on a gameday

it's sad for averett but he might be riding the inactives list all season again

 

[rmcjacket23]

i 100% agree on special teams being the way the back end of the roster fills out - but with the way that the modern special teams is set up with the no-running-start stuff means that you need more athletic players running downfield - linebackers arent the prototype special teams players anymore - yes chris board is a good special teams player but its more likely a good special teams player is either a DB or a WR

your point about cyrus jones is well made and that 1 spot goes over to the WR group for sure which is why i think we carry 5 corners and not 6
but the safeties on our roster currently all play special teams including both starters (and the 5th S is a special teams specialist who will almost certainly make the roster based on that prowess)

so that's a minimum of 10 dbs already and that still feels a bit light

True, but just goes to my point about challenges of roster construction and how its not wise to pigeon hole yourself into thinking "we need X number of players for each group".

My best example is Kenjon Barner. If he makes the team as a kick returner, that's a 6th RB (including Ricard). I bet you won't find any other team in the league carrying 6 RBs. Where is that roster spot coming from? If I just pull from Simba's mock roster, conceding its not 100% accurate obviously, its hard to find. Doesn't appear it'll be from the offensive side of the ball, as we're pretty light there already, unless we opt to only keep 8 Olineman.

So one would think it would be from the defensive side of the ball, with the Secondary having the largest group.

 

[BloodRaven]

tons of training camp heros this year - if they never produce we're gonna have a long season of losses lol

The camp hero receiver is one of our oldest tropes, a random receiver kicks ass at camp and goes on to do nothing that season.

We're getting honeydicked again.

 

[Simba]

yeah i think you're right about the first 8 - gus and LJ Fort id add to the first group also tbh - plays a lot of special teams even as the number 2 back and now as the likely 3/4 he's going to be even more valuable on special teams - he's a big strong powerful guy who gets downfield in a hurry

the only one of the 8 im not confident about as a special teamer and that's just because ive not seen anything of it is malik harrison but that's not to say he wont be part of that group of stalwarts - but LJ fort will be playing special teams even if he's starting because that's a facet of a game that he's really effective in too

in terms of the inactives the only thing id disagree with is the RB4 sitting - both RB 3 and RB 4 are both going to be playing special teams snaps so id fully expect them to be active - hill may well be one of our gunners and gus is going to play on kick coverages too so id expect all the RBs to be active

the fact that the list of potential specialists doesnt include any corners does lead me to believe we might go only 4 deep at corner on gameday with levine as an emergency option if we somehow lose 2 on a gameday

it's sad for averett but he might be riding the inactives list all season again

Agreed and those are my "next 2 up" for lack of a better description of that. Think Fort will still play a lot but might be lessened just by the fact that he's likely a starter.

No disagreements on Harrison either. Just seen reports that he's been very active there so figured he made sense.

Inactives are definitely going to be an interesting call. I think we know the 3 obvious ones (QB, OL, DL). CB makes sense solely because Averett isn't a strong STer by all accounts. It's really that last spot that will be interesting to see how they handle if everyone is healthy. OLB might be another place you cut because Bowser is really the only one there that plays ST. Ward could be finding himself on the bench quite often as well.

 

[Simba]

True, but just goes to my point about challenges of roster construction and how its not wise to pigeon hole yourself into thinking "we need X number of players for each group".

My best example is Kenjon Barner. If he makes the team as a kick returner, that's a 6th RB (including Ricard). I bet you won't find any other team in the league carrying 6 RBs. Where is that roster spot coming from? If I just pull from Simba's mock roster, conceding its not 100% accurate obviously, its hard to find. Doesn't appear it'll be from the offensive side of the ball, as we're pretty light there already, unless we opt to only keep 8 Olineman.

So one would think it would be from the defensive side of the ball, with the Secondary having the largest group.

For whatever it's worth, I really don't think Barner is in any consideration for the 53. Could be the PS security blanket because I don't think anyone will be beating down the door for him.

This does bring up an interesting point though with Cyrus Jones last year. They kept him as the returner because we were hurting at slot corner with Tavon's injury. By reports at the time, it seemed like Tyler Ervin would have won the job had they not needed the bodies at CB. Not that Ervin fared much better as he bounced around the league, but it does show that you have to consider depth when rounding out the roster as well.

 

[rossihunter2]

The camp hero receiver is one of our oldest tropes, a random receiver kicks ass at camp and goes on to do nothing that season.

We're getting honeydicked again.

what about the fact that its 3 receivers this year?

 

[rossihunter2]

For whatever it's worth, I really don't think Barner is in any consideration for the 53. Could be the PS security blanket because I don't think anyone will be beating down the door for him.

This does bring up an interesting point though with Cyrus Jones last year. They kept him as the returner because we were hurting at slot corner with Tavon's injury. By reports at the time, it seemed like Tyler Ervin would have won the job had they not needed the bodies at CB. Not that Ervin fared much better as he bounced around the league, but it does show that you have to consider depth when rounding out the roster as well.

those reports were odd though because cyrus jones was never liked at the slot corner role - we lost multiple corners and still put justin bethel (and others) on the field in stead of cyrus

didnt ervin have a fumbling problem too?

i also dont think barner makes it - he's had some recent fumbling problems and while he has the occasional spectacular play its not with regularity - being safe is more important for this team given how impactful our offence is than being explosive as a returner

 

[Simba]

those reports were odd though because cyrus jones was never liked at the slot corner role - we lost multiple corners and still put justin bethel (and others) on the field in stead of cyrus

didnt ervin have a fumbling problem too?

i also dont think barner makes it - he's had some recent fumbling problems and while he has the occasional spectacular play its not with regularity - being safe is more important for this team given how impactful our offence is than being explosive as a returner

Oh I don't think they were comfortable with Jones at CB at all but reports at the time had Ervin winning that battle if they didn't need bodies at CB. Sounds like that was really his saving grace or else Ervin would have been returning.

Again, not that either is anything special but it's not always a pure ST consideration.

 

[BloodRaven]

what about the fact that its 3 receivers this year?

Clearly it means they're all going to see record targets and production

 

[rmcjacket23]

For whatever it's worth, I really don't think Barner is in any consideration for the 53. Could be the PS security blanket because I don't think anyone will be beating down the door for him.

This does bring up an interesting point though with Cyrus Jones last year. They kept him as the returner because we were hurting at slot corner with Tavon's injury. By reports at the time, it seemed like Tyler Ervin would have won the job had they not needed the bodies at CB. Not that Ervin fared much better as he bounced around the league, but it does show that you have to consider depth when rounding out the roster as well.

I mean... I don't see what Barner brings to the PS. In my eyes, he either makes the 53 as the kick returner, or he gets cut. I'm not even sure they'd keep a PS player around as a "backup returner".

I hope he doesn't make the team, because short of having like a Devin Hester-level player, I hate the idea of kick return specialists in the modern NFL. They just don't make anywhere near enough impact on the game, and their actual opportunities are pretty small.

That being said... we've seen the Chris Moore show as a returner before, and its league-average, so I don't think we got that route. It leaves Justice Hill as an option, though I don't think he has the speed for it, and I'm also not convinced the Ravens will actually have 5 RBs active each week either.

That pretty much gets you down to a couple of the rookie WRs. They may be your best option, but I don't know that John will trust rookies with ball security for those spots either.

 

[rossihunter2]

Clearly it means they're all going to see record targets and production

haha - just you wait - lamar's gonna pass for 10,000 yards and every single receiver is going over 1000

 

[Simba]

I mean... I don't see what Barner brings to the PS. In my eyes, he either makes the 53 as the kick returner, or he gets cut. I'm not even sure they'd keep a PS player around as a "backup returner".

I hope he doesn't make the team, because short of having like a Devin Hester-level player, I hate the idea of kick return specialists in the modern NFL. They just don't make anywhere near enough impact on the game, and their actual opportunities are pretty small.

That being said... we've seen the Chris Moore show as a returner before, and its league-average, so I don't think we got that route. It leaves Justice Hill as an option, though I don't think he has the speed for it, and I'm also not convinced the Ravens will actually have 5 RBs active each week either.

That pretty much gets you down to a couple of the rookie WRs. They may be your best option, but I don't know that John will trust rookies with ball security for those spots either.

For what it's worth, I don't expect that either. But I do think PS construction could certainly be a little bit different this year. I also doubt they'll use it on a vet returner type but who knows this year. More spots to play with and probably a few guys that we'll see bouncing back and forth from the roster consistently this year. Would think we'll have at least a couple of those fringey vets that are just barely hanging on.

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean... I don't see what Barner brings to the PS. In my eyes, he either makes the 53 as the kick returner, or he gets cut. I'm not even sure they'd keep a PS player around as a "backup returner".

I hope he doesn't make the team, because short of having like a Devin Hester-level player, I hate the idea of kick return specialists in the modern NFL. They just don't make anywhere near enough impact on the game, and their actual opportunities are pretty small.

That being said... we've seen the Chris Moore show as a returner before, and its league-average, so I don't think we got that route. It leaves Justice Hill as an option, though I don't think he has the speed for it, and I'm also not convinced the Ravens will actually have 5 RBs active each week either.

That pretty much gets you down to a couple of the rookie WRs. They may be your best option, but I don't know that John will trust rookies with ball security for those spots either.

the thing about kick returns is they're not really about breaking one anymore - it's more about good decision making - can i let this go for a touchback or do i need to return it - and if i need to return it can i get it out to the 25 or better - returning is about safety, good decision-making and safe ball-handling

there's almost no kick returners who are gonna consistently be weapons with the new rules updates

and its telling that other than hester, in recent years the only specialist returners we've kept have been punt returners

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[Simba]

I'm still not ready to switch them up on my prediction, but if they feel the need to cut an OL to make room for Holden at T, Powers seems like the most likely candidate currently.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm still not ready to switch them up on my prediction, but if they feel the need to cut an OL to make room for Holden at T, Powers seems like the most likely candidate currently.

if in year 2 he's not going to start and he also isnt going to backup then he's very much in danger - i understand trying to add the positional flexibility but that ultimately is a bad sign for his chances at being active on gameday - its easier now with the 8th OL rule but still would be easier for him if he could play more than just guard

 

[Simba]

if in year 2 he's not going to start and he also isnt going to backup then he's very much in danger - i understand trying to add the positional flexibility but that ultimately is a bad sign for his chances at being active on gameday - its easier now with the 8th OL rule but still would be easier for him if he could play more than just guard

And in a directly reply to that tweet above, it's mentioned that Holden and Ehinger got the T reps today with Stanley out. Definitely doesn't bode too well for Powers and if it's between him and Bredeson, I think you're taking the most recent pick over the guy that was only activated once last year. Holden and Ehinger might be in a completely isolated battle.