Gonna check out grimes..didnt watch much of vasher because i was sleepy but his rte running looks like it can be improved, unlike boykins..my notes on Vasher:
to me he's maybe draftable but more likely a UDFA (he's got a udfa grade from me but got no problem with someone who tells me they'd draft him late day 3 - for what it's worth there's no 7th round grade on my board... the lowest draftable grade is a 6th) - he's a maybe developmental redzone weapon but he doesn't block, is unlikely to contribute to special teams and doesn't offer much beyond his length in terms of plus traits - and worryingly he doesn't play big through the route only at the catchpoint - really struggles with physicality, can't beat press, can get erased later in the route by contact - and while i'm not really worried about production generally it isn't a great sign that he didn't produce much at all
- 6’6 210lbs
- Massive with incredible wingspan and length – a decent athlete given his size
- Good hands – sometimes spectacular – can make ridiculous grabs with full extension to high-point and the ball will just stick to his fingers – there are frustrating moments where he track the ball well but mostly very good at the catch-point and often shows good body control – catch radius is ridiculous
- Decent athlete especially at his size – at his best working vertically where he can use his long-strides
- As you’d expect at his size he’s a pretty linear athlete – doesn’t have a ton of fluidity in his cuts and rarely separates working horizontally
- Very limited route-tree
- Really struggles with contact through the route – can be erased from the play by physicality which obviously isn’t ideal from a bigger receiver – doesn’t show a ton of strength – and doesn’t stack well – doesn’t have the burst or acceleration to explode at the breakpoint
- Has some decent footwork at the release though – but worryingly it doesn’t translate into beating press
- Seems to not have the best feel for how to run his routes – especially at the top of the stem on those vertical routes – doesn’t stack consistently and sometimes running the route into the coverage
- Doesn’t separate
- Has some redzone upside
- Not a good blocker
and on top of it all apparently there's some motivation and work ethic concerns (unconfirmed though)
so he doesn't separate and he doesn't win physically - and he doesn't offer blocking or special teams value - he's someone who will have a chance in a training camp somewhere but it's hard to imagine how he'd make a 53 man roster - there's lots of bigger receivers i'd take over him
he's WR 38 for me as it stands right now (still a few left to work through)
i compare him to someone like Trevon Grimes (who i would draft late) - who had much better production, has better craft in his route-running, and plays far more physically, and blocks
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2021 WR Thread
- Thread starter JoeyFlex5
- Start date
Gonna check out grimes..didnt watch much of vasher because i was sleepy but his rte running looks like it can be improved, unlike boykins..
i mean it can be improved in the sense that there's not much there to start with
i think boykin's a much better and more fluid athlete who was a better route runner in college
and the thing that seems to hold boykin back the most (his inability to play to his size) seems to be a problem for Vasher too... so idk that Vasher would be anywhere like an upgrade on boykin especially as he can't block
Grimes is interesting but don't expect to be overwhelmed by him athletically - i think he's draftable but definitely a day 3 guy
if you're looking for some other bigger guys who can play through contact and who have some route running to their game: Josh Palmer out of Tennessee (coached by Tee Martin), Austin Watkins Jr out of UAB (cousin of sammy watkins), Nico Collins out of Michigan, Jonathan Adams Jr out of Arkansas State, Seth Williams out of Auburn and Frank Darby out of Arizona State all might be of interest too
but yeah see what you think of Grimes
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I hate ole miss so bad, their offensive players are so damn hard to watch film on, I hate their scheme and I hate every qb who’s played for them since forever.
Elijah Moore looks really good but there is so much dead space in his film to sit through lol, so many 1 step hitches and decoy bubble screens, it’s like 1 out of 10 routes run is an actual route. This is why I have taken so long to watch some film on him, because I already knew I’d be bored lol
Elijah Moore looks really good but there is so much dead space in his film to sit through lol, so many 1 step hitches and decoy bubble screens, it’s like 1 out of 10 routes run is an actual route. This is why I have taken so long to watch some film on him, because I already knew I’d be bored lol
haha but he's so good lol - and once you've got through the tape you can just occasionally watch the highlights and salivate over a pro-ready explosive slot
especially given the last Ole Miss WRs who came out 2 classes ago
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
i went through 2 games, decided to go to highlights then lol, and highlights show you what he does well, but the film shows you the same with lots of useless filler thanks to the playbook. and yeah i really like what i see, i see a bit of a jamison crowder with second rate speed and first rate explosiveness, hes super sharp and sudden and bursty, and he attacks tf out of the ball and is a natural tracker and hands plucker when needed but does just as well on shielding possession style or over the shoulder catches.
if the ravens mess around and get an early 2nd rounder and weve addressed one of OT or edge, then elijah moore is likely to be one of my top guys.
i feel like he'd be great value from the 33rd pick onwards - if we picked him at 27 i probably wouldn't be mad either although it'd be unlikely that he'd be top of my board at that stage - but anywhere in the 2nd round if he's still there he'd be an awesome pick
lance zierlein comped him to antonio brown and i actually really quite like that comp
as a receiver, the only real negatives i've got on him are that he's not particularly good vs press (which means that at his height he's probably not playing a ton on the outside early in his career) and that his blocking leaves a bit to be desired... but otherwise i think he's awesome
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I think he’s got the quicks and understanding of leverage to eventually eat press, and he’s strong at the catch point and his release is dirty, I think he’d develop just fine outside. But yeah his blocking is trash
i mean im not saying he's a slot only - just that because of his struggles with press he might be limited early outside - a lot of the league doesn't play a ton of press which would help him but i think physical corners on the outside might be tough for him early in his career
his releases vs off coverage are insane - i think he can stutter too much at times at the LoS when guys come down and man up
but im not gonna bet against him
either way it doesn't change how much i'd want him to be here
schwartz is legit 100m olympic athlete calibre fast lol - oddly not as twitchy as you'd expect though and despite being 6'0 he might weigh less than hollywood lol
pretty unrefined dude - lots of untapped potential - but he's more of a gadget than a receiver at the moment
and i worry for a guy who's that fast that he really seems to struggle tracking the ball deep and adjusting - really consistently lost the ball in the air
i think there's other super fast guys i'd prefer - if you're looking for another guy who probably has that 5th gear that Schwartz has, Tutu Atwell would be an option (although he's tiny and has had some drop issues but seems to have better ball-tracking and is twitchier)
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
i havent done a deep dive on schwartz and im only considering him as a day 3 flyer, thats some speed you just cant coach lol
i think he's draftable purely based on that speed yeah - but yeah im not touching him until mid-day-3 at the earliest lol
been high on him since before i even started watching film - he went off down the stretch in the college season making tons of big plays and then i turned on the film and he looked every bit of a day 2 pick (and a good one) - the only thing that stops halts you slightly is the lack of production and the incredibly late breakout but the tape says he's easily a day 2 pick
in some ways he seems to be this year's Van Jefferson - dude who makes you wonder how on earth he didn't get more play or production in his college career but is 100% going to be a productive pro
but yeah he looks like DK Metcalf in that photo lol...
apparently ran in the 4.4s today too
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Ya know I’ve seen the amari Rodgers hype all this time, but if I’m being real, I’m not sure amari Rodgers is the best Clemson wr prospect... I’ve preferred Powell pretty much from the start.
same with the NC WR duo, Dyami Brown has the hype but if it’s round 5 and both are available(will never happen) and I’m taking a wr, I wouldn’t hesitate to take dazz over brown
i had powell ahead a lot of the way through the process but the more i saw of rodgers the higher he moved (not a case of powell moving down boards for me but rodgers moving up boards)
and i'm very much the other way around on dyami brown and dazz newsome - i really like dyami and there's a lot of guys i'm taking over dazz that play a similar style of football
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Dazz newsome and shi smith are my later round guys, shi smith can pluck that ball like he was born to do it and he does it with terribly placed balls consistently and his release is pretty deadly as well, just tricky and slippery at the break point.
newsome is a potentially elite route runner as much as essentially anyone in the class(aside from smith, Moore, and eskridge) and he does it with explosive acceleration and really explosive cuts and jukes and when he sniffs a little bit of separation it seems like he’s got an extra gear to blow the play wide open. Brown I thought had a lot of ugly dropped balls and I don’t see anything special, he’s got a way of making dbs bite before releasing downfield and he often finds himself wide open on deep balls, but I also see no real ability to do anything else you ask a receiver to do and he drops balls so I’m not trusting him to be that guy, I’m not drafting him to do anything else when he hasn’t shown much else, and we have a guy to specialize in deep balls already, I just don’t see it with him
tbf to dyami - he's literally playing the DK Metcalf role in that offence hence the limited route tree - and making DBs bite is a route-running skill lol - he gets open by being a really impressive vertical route runner that's how he gets wide open... there's a couple of drops in short areas but there's also some contested wins and he's got great downfield ball-tracking - and he's a mean downfield blocker lol
i dont see that potential with dazz newsome as a route-runner at all - see a ton of touches handed to him, not a ton of nuance vs man coverage - similarly limited route tree - has a nice knack for working his way into space vs zone coverage (but that's not the kind of coverage we've struggled with so much as a team in 2020) - he's explosive but in this class i dont think he stands out vs a guy like Jaelan Darden who's a bit smaller but a massively dynamic shifty athlete or Tutu Atwell who's legit got that 5th gear that not many players do (but who's also a bit smaller) - i still think he's a nice prospect but idk that he's a guy who stands out to me particularly
i do like shi smith though - he's a really refined route runner already and as you say he shows off some awesome hands at the catch point (although he also has a few frustrating drops/doesn't secure the ball a few times)
as an aside - i like eskridge but not sure i'd put him in the same conversation as those upper eschelon route runners like Moore, Smith - and I'll add Bateman to that group for sure
LSURavenFan
Veteran
Looking forward to the draft thread when Devonta Smith slides a bit and is available in the 14-15 range and all of us are losing our minds...