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2018 Free Agency

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
I'm over this FA. Don't expect anything but perhaps couple no-names and/or players who are past their best and can't get better deals elsewhere.

The only way we could afford anybody of note would be to extend few players already recently extended and have BWill on the books for 14-15mil a year from 2019 on, which would be utterly stupid. Realistically, our schedule next season is looking like a nightmare and to make it to the playoffs, we'd have to add two really good WRs, good TE, re-sign Jensen, hit on every draft pick and hope that Wink can sort out defense. Those additions on offense we can't afford though, unless DeCosta accepted to have his hands tied for the first two years of his reign.

We need to accept the reality, clean the house and start rebuilding. Roseman wasn't scared to do just that with Frankenstein of a team Chip Kelly left and won the trophy after just two years.
 

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
Am I the only one that thinks we might not cut Maclin? Everyone is acting like it’s a forgone conclusion, but it’s not. I want him gone just like everyone else, but the front office might see it differently. They will see that hes still very capable of being a good receiver and we can’t find a replacement with his potential for 5 million. I hope he gets cut but that might not be the case..
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
Am I the only one that thinks we might not cut Maclin? Everyone is acting like it’s a forgone conclusion, but it’s not. I want him gone just like everyone else, but the front office might see it differently. They will see that hes still very capable of being a good receiver and we can’t find a replacement with his potential for 5 million. I hope he gets cut but that might not be the case..
This isn’t a situation where fans just want him gone, it’s obvious to anyone that he’s a bust. Even though he may be capable the desire isn’t there. The end of the pburgh game was the final straw, he’s gone.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Lol. If you think that paying Jensen is going to set the team back just wait to see what happens if we overpay Jarvis Landry.

I don't think Jensen is going to be overpaid. One year starter only. If they pay him more than $10 mil then let him walk. But $10 mil contract? Not a big deal. Especially since the cap keeps increasing annually and that will be the new normal soon anyway.

Seriously. If we want to improve we CANNOT afford to let the dude walk. Skura sucks. Lewis is a bad guard and a terrible run blocker. And we will be stuck with 2/5ths of an oline. UNACCEPTABLE. I don't see Ozzie adding three rookies nor do I want him too.

We could add Allen Robinson AND Landry. Just look at the New York Giants. You pick your WR corps over your oline and you're going to suffer. FIX THE FUCKING LINE FIRST.
 

redrum52

Hall of Famer
Lol. If you think that paying Jensen is going to set the team back just wait to see what happens if we overpay Jarvis Landry.

I don't think Jensen is going to be overpaid. One year starter only. If they pay him more than $10 mil then let him walk. But $10 mil contract? Not a big deal. Especially since the cap keeps increasing annually and that will be the new normal soon anyway.

Seriously. If we want to improve we CANNOT afford to let the dude walk. Skura sucks. Lewis is a bad guard and a terrible run blocker. And we will be stuck with 2/5ths of an oline. UNACCEPTABLE. I don't see Ozzie adding three rookies nor do I want him too.

We could add Allen Robinson AND Landry. Just look at the New York Giants. You pick your WR corps over your oline and you're going to suffer. FIX THE FUCKING LINE FIRST.

I love this world where centers are easily replaced when there won't be many good veterans available. If it were a guard, it would be somewhat different, but we need a good center. People consistently complain about OL play and want to let one of our best 2 members hit FA when there are already holes to fill.

I might be wrong, but isn't Williams contract structured in a way where it's easy to cut/restructure him after next season? Doesn't that season also line up when Pierce would be a FA? Cap space is coming soon, just need to survive this off season and the team will have many options in 19.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I love this world where centers are easily replaced when there won't be many good veterans available. If it were a guard, it would be somewhat different, but we need a good center. People consistently complain about OL play and want to let one of our best 2 members hit FA when there are already holes to fill.

I might be wrong, but isn't Williams contract structured in a way where it's easy to cut/restructure him after next season? Doesn't that season also line up when Pierce would be a FA? Cap space is coming soon, just need to survive this off season and the team will have many options in 19.
Center is one of the harder positions to find in the game. Jensen is good. Not mediocre, just good. If he wants 10 mil, then damnit give it to him. "But that's an overpay". It won't be in a few years since the salary cap keeps going up and trends point to that being the new normal anyway.

If we keep him we have a solid foundation for the oline for the next 3 some odd years(guards can play at a high level forever so Yanda should be fine since his game is more technical if anything.. Even though he can maul people). Stanley is still promising, Yanda is Yanda. Jensen is a good center who's an ideal fit in the scheme. The oline would be one damn good piece away (which WOULD be avaliable in the upcoming draft. Wynn, Price, Hernandez, McGlinchey, Brown, etc) from being one of the better units in the game. We keep Jensen and draft Orlando Brown and/or McGlinchey and the line would be set. Alex Lewis could start at LG for all I fucking care(even though if Siragusa comes back AT ALL the player he showed he could be in college he's my candidate to take the starting LG spot.. I hope to god it's not Alex Lewis)
A line of
Stanley-Lewis-Jensen-Yanda-Orlando Brown(I have a strong feeling that he's in significant consideration for our first pick thanks to his daddy. At RT I would not mind at all) would be a mauling unit that other teams in the league would hate playing against and Collins would easily go for 1000 yards rushing behind that.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
Center is one of the harder positions to find in the game. Jensen is good. Not mediocre, just good. If he wants 10 mil, then damnit give it to him. "But that's an overpay". It won't be in a few years since the salary cap keeps going up and trends point to that being the new normal anyway.

If we keep him we have a solid foundation for the oline for the next 3 some odd years(guards can play at a high level forever so Yanda should be fine since his game is more technical if anything.. Even though he can maul people). Stanley is still promising, Yanda is Yanda. Jensen is a good center who's an ideal fit in the scheme. The oline would be one damn good piece away (which WOULD be avaliable in the upcoming draft. Wynn, Price, Hernandez, McGlinchey, Brown, etc) from being one of the better units in the game. We keep Jensen and draft Orlando Brown and/or McGlinchey and the line would be set. Alex Lewis could start at LG for all I fucking care(even though if Siragusa comes back AT ALL the player he showed he could be in college he's my candidate to take the starting LG spot.. I hope to god it's not Alex Lewis)
A line of
Stanley-Lewis-Jensen-Yanda-Orlando Brown(I have a strong feeling that he's in significant consideration for our first pick thanks to his daddy. At RT I would not mind at all) would be a mauling unit that other teams in the league would hate playing against and Collins would easily go for 1000 yards rushing behind that.

When he hits market I can see him getting 12m per year under the same logic and he knows it. When I say someone will overpay I mean someone will overpay what you consider an overpay because everyone wants a great Center and teams with 40-50M+ cap space will see an opportunity to build up there OLine and when you are a bad/young team you want to start with a good OLine.
 

JO_75

Hall of Famer
Center is one of the harder positions to find in the game. Jensen is good. Not mediocre, just good. If he wants 10 mil, then damnit give it to him. "But that's an overpay". It won't be in a few years since the salary cap keeps going up and trends point to that being the new normal anyway.

If we keep him we have a solid foundation for the oline for the next 3 some odd years(guards can play at a high level forever so Yanda should be fine since his game is more technical if anything.. Even though he can maul people). Stanley is still promising, Yanda is Yanda. Jensen is a good center who's an ideal fit in the scheme. The oline would be one damn good piece away (which WOULD be avaliable in the upcoming draft. Wynn, Price, Hernandez, McGlinchey, Brown, etc) from being one of the better units in the game. We keep Jensen and draft Orlando Brown and/or McGlinchey and the line would be set. Alex Lewis could start at LG for all I fucking care(even though if Siragusa comes back AT ALL the player he showed he could be in college he's my candidate to take the starting LG spot.. I hope to god it's not Alex Lewis)
A line of
Stanley-Lewis-Jensen-Yanda-Orlando Brown(I have a strong feeling that he's in significant consideration for our first pick thanks to his daddy. At RT I would not mind at all) would be a mauling unit that other teams in the league would hate playing against and Collins would easily go for 1000 yards rushing behind that.

Lately too, it seems most teams have a serviceable Center these days. Look at the playoff teams, it's not like they have Pro Bowl Centers. Sure the Falcons have Alex Mack and the Steelers have Pouncey, Bills had Eric Wood. Most of the playoff teams had serviceable centers that weren't all Pro or Pro Bowlers but they held the line together. That's what Jensen does, and I hope we can sign him to a good contract where if he is concerned about money, we can add performance based incentives in for him to earn more money. If someone else messes with Joe this season and Jensen knocks that player out, we give him a $1M bonus or whatever.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
When he hits market I can see him getting 12m per year under the same logic and he knows it. When I say someone will overpay I mean someone will overpay what you consider an overpay because everyone wants a great Center and teams with 40-50M+ cap space will see an opportunity to build up there OLine and when you are a bad/young team you want to start with a good OLine.
Let's factor in some variables then. While Jensen did grade highly per PFF, offensive line play around the league was down as a whole. Yes, he was rated as #9 which per their grading scale is still AVERAGE. Add in some injuries around the league and play was down.

Jensen also made his fair share of mistakes upon reexamination of the tape. Whether this means penalties or blown assignments. Even the most desperate of teams will look at that as a red flag. Not to mention he would occasionally play past the whistle. That would eliminate him as a candidate for some teams. We also have to account for some of the best centers in football. Per playing. Oh, and most importantly Jensen is a one year wonder with some inconsistent play. Some teams will look at this and be VERY skeptical, which likely rules out some teams.

Also when examining the amount of centers around the league this year who suffered from injury.. It's astonishing really.
Mitch Morse(promising campaign last season. Play predictably went south when playing through said injury)
Ryan Kali(one of the game's best centers over the past decade. Play went south when playing through injury. Better player than Jensen)
Ryan Kelly(promising rookie campaign last season. Went down south when playing through injury. Better player than Jensen)
Weston Richburg(top center when healthy. Was injured for most of 2017 and the Giants suffered because of it. Btw. Also a free agent. Probably the top name on the market)
Travis Swanson(very good center when healthy. Suffered through injuries)

Assuming that teams only use PFF(which is absolutely asinine but this is a hypothetical), like with any analytic you have to provide some semblance of context. Factor in all the variables(level of competition, injuries around them, coaching, scheme related issues(in the case of several players that had down years this year. Mike Pouncey being a prime example imo) some GMs might come to the conclusion that Jensen's grade is inflated. Which I believe it is slightly due to poor line play around the league and injuries hurting some of the game's more promising players)


Let's look at the other centers in the league this past season salary wise then.

  1. Jason Kelce(first team all pro last season and several time pro bowler, better than Jensen, did not have an expensive contract at all)
  2. Alex Mack(valued at 8.3 million. Much better center than Jensen. Was allowed to hit the open market because the Browns are idiots. Still not over $10 million and everyone knows it)
  3. Brandon Linder(highest paid center in football. $11 million. Best player on a bad oline and better than Jensen could hope to be. Has better track record as well.
  4. Maurkice Pouncey($11 million again. Overrated, but still a very good plater. I'd say he's better than Jensen)
  5. Mike Pouncey($9 million. I'm rounding up but once again. Better track record than Jensen. Paid around what he should be paid. Jensen had a better year, but Miami's oline as a whole was terrible this past year)
  6. Ryan Kalil($8 million. Has had a much better career than Jensen has had. A bit on the older side and centers are valued more. But still is being paid reasonably)
  7. Rodney Hudson($7.5 million. Again, better player than Jensen. Better track record. Had a better season. Was a highly regarded player when he hit the market when the Raiders had more cap than EVERYONE)
  8. Max Unger(7.5 million. See above. The Saints oline changed when they added him and he's been worth giving up Jimmy Graham for. He's a big reason why that Saints line has been a Rock for Brees)
  9. Travis Frederick(5 million this season. He's the best center in the damn league. His contract only goes over the 10 mil a season mark.. 3 times roughly during the duration of his extension. I'd take him over Jensen in my sleep)
I don't think I need to go on. I'd take most, if not all of these guys over Jensen on their best day and most of them were paid at correct market value. I doubt that Jensen is nearly as highly regarded around the league. So when you factor in some aspects.

Inconsistent play from all of his years in the league
The fact that he's only been a starter for a single year
Occasional lapses in play because of inexperience.
He's not even the best option player wise on the market(when helathy Richburg has had better seasons)
And the fact that Jensen is not a fit in everyone's scheme
Oh. 23 teams in the NFL are set at center either because they drafted someone recently and they're going to wait for him to develop or they are stuck in a contract with him. Either way that SEVERELY narrows the market

That limits his market to 9 teams. He's not really a fit with Cincinatti, San Francisco, The Giants, Rams, Cardinals(who under McCoy run more of a zone scheme. He ran power last season but that was a miserable failure so he will probably switch back to zone where he was most successful. Not to mention Shipley, who played REALLY well for them the season before comes in at a fraction of the price and his bad season could be attributed to playing through injury... Again).

So.. His likely market is.
Us
Jets
Bills
Redskins

now the bills have some FAs they need to retain. We can rule them out of the running because of this. EJ Gaines is going to command a lot of money on the open market and I could see them getting back a few other key players. Not to mention with their plethora of draft picks they may choose to pursue their need for C in the draft, and are more likely to resort to using that to rebuild their oline.

The Redskins might pursue a different route in FAs. They have so many offensive needs that they'll likely pursue playmakers in the offseason rather than line(because Snyder is a moron).

That leaves us and the Jets. The Jets have a ton of cap room and run a mixed scheme. They're our main competitor. They can outbid us, and are displaying interest. But why would the Jets go after the man when they have a nice home town guy across the locker room in Richburg they could go after?

But given all of these variables, better players have gone for cheaper even in recent years. I don't see it happening. Jensen isn't a player worth resetting the market for. He's a good player, who overachieved this season and his PFF grade is better than it should be due to other injuries around the league and other players playing in unideal schemes. Other teams are going to understand this. Why would they. There's a TON of uncertainty around them.

Spotrac has him valued at around $8.9 million. They tend to be close to accurate.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/ryan-jensen-12485/market-value/

That's more than doable because it's easier to manipulate cap than you would think.

I don't think he goes for $12 million. The Jets are stupid and desperate but I still have my doubts. He's not the type of guy worth resetting the market for because of all the uncertainty he brings to the table.

Of course. The Jets could just say "fuck it" and do this anyway to spite me.. But I don't think resigning Jensen is totally out of the picture and I'd pony up $10 mil if he wants it.
 
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Sledge Hammer

Pro Bowler
I agree with much of what you said. I think we could get Jensen 5 yrs $42mil on a slight home town discount. We coached him up kept on the roster back when he went through his disorder so I think he will show some gratitude. Back load the contract. Give him a nice bonus and give him the same guaranteed money as the teams offering him $50million. By time the bigger cap hits kick in the ravens will be in better cap shape. As long as management doesn’t keep signing and restructuring players with diminishing skills!! Like Weddle is slowing down fast!! He would be finished as a raven if we need to decide him or Jensen!! It’s ludicrous ravens prefer declining vets over its young talent!!


And paying an overrated one dimensional run stuffer franchise money is ridiculous and one of the factors that has Ozzie “stepping down”. The. scenario you could lose your pro bowl caliber center over a one dimensional run stuffer. And I’m picking Weddle to be a total liability next yr at 34. He should be thrown out when it comes down to keeping your center and finding receivers to fix your offense!! Fans around the country are beginning to insult the ravens team age every year. Carr, Weddle, Maclin, McClellan, Webb, Howard,Woodhead. Any busts need to be acknowledged and cut including Perriman, Correa, The Bronk. I would even consider trading Mosley if he doesn’t agree to a fair extension to get his cap number down . Screw paying him franchise money. He is barely better than average. And use all that saved money on players like Brice Butler, Marqise Lee,Richardson, NORWELL, Quinn. Players that will be part of building the team for several years as draft picks are added.

Problem with ravens free agents by time any young players break out. The players you spend your free agent money on have severe diminishing skills!! And can’t contribute to your young players. Draft young players and trust them and forget about extending and restructuring players with diminishing skills. If there is a nice cap savings Weddle should be done here!!




Let's factor in some variables then. While Jensen did grade highly per PFF, offensive line play around the league was down as a whole. Yes, he was rated as #9 which per their grading scale is still AVERAGE. Add in some injuries around the league and play was down.

Jensen also made his fair share of mistakes upon reexamination of the tape. Whether this means penalties or blown assignments. Even the most desperate of teams will look at that as a red flag. Not to mention he would occasionally play past the whistle. That would eliminate him as a candidate for some teams. We also have to account for some of the best centers in football. Per playing. Oh, and most importantly Jensen is a one year wonder with some inconsistent play. Some teams will look at this and be VERY skeptical, which likely rules out some teams.

Also when examining the amount of centers around the league this year who suffered from injury.. It's astonishing really.
Mitch Morse(promising campaign last season. Play predictably went south when playing through said injury)
Ryan Kali(one of the game's best centers over the past decade. Play went south when playing through injury. Better player than Jensen)
Ryan Kelly(promising rookie campaign last season. Went down south when playing through injury. Better player than Jensen)
Weston Richburg(top center when healthy. Was injured for most of 2017 and the Giants suffered because of it. Btw. Also a free agent. Probably the top name on the market)
Travis Swanson(very good center when healthy. Suffered through injuries)

Assuming that teams only use PFF(which is absolutely asinine but this is a hypothetical), like with any analytic you have to provide some semblance of context. Factor in all the variables(level of competition, injuries around them, coaching, scheme related issues(in the case of several players that had down years this year. Mike Pouncey being a prime example imo) some GMs might come to the conclusion that Jensen's grade is inflated. Which I believe it is slightly due to poor line play around the league and injuries hurting some of the game's more promising players)


Let's look at the other centers in the league this past season salary wise then.

  1. Jason Kelce(first team all pro last season and several time pro bowler, better than Jensen, did not have an expensive contract at all)
  2. Alex Mack(valued at 8.3 million. Much better center than Jensen. Was allowed to hit the open market because the Browns are idiots. Still not over $10 million and everyone knows it)
  3. Brandon Linder(highest paid center in football. $11 million. Best player on a bad oline and better than Jensen could hope to be. Has better track record as well.
  4. Maurkice Pouncey($11 million again. Overrated, but still a very good plater. I'd say he's better than Jensen)
  5. Mike Pouncey($9 million. I'm rounding up but once again. Better track record than Jensen. Paid around what he should be paid. Jensen had a better year, but Miami's oline as a whole was terrible this past year)
  6. Ryan Kalil($8 million. Has had a much better career than Jensen has had. A bit on the older side and centers are valued more. But still is being paid reasonably)
  7. Rodney Hudson($7.5 million. Again, better player than Jensen. Better track record. Had a better season. Was a highly regarded player when he hit the market when the Raiders had more cap than EVERYONE)
  8. Max Unger(7.5 million. See above. The Saints oline changed when they added him and he's been worth giving up Jimmy Graham for. He's a big reason why that Saints line has been a Rock for Brees)
  9. Travis Frederick(5 million this season. He's the best center in the damn league. His contract only goes over the 10 mil a season mark.. 3 times roughly during the duration of his extension. I'd take him over Jensen in my sleep)
I don't think I need to go on. I'd take most, if not all of these guys over Jensen on their best day and most of them were paid at correct market value. I doubt that Jensen is nearly as highly regarded around the league. So when you factor in some aspects.

Inconsistent play from all of his years in the league
The fact that he's only been a starter for a single year
Occasional lapses in play because of inexperience.
He's not even the best option player wise on the market(when helathy Richburg has had better seasons)
And the fact that Jensen is not a fit in everyone's scheme
Oh. 23 teams in the NFL are set at center either because they drafted someone recently and they're going to wait for him to develop or they are stuck in a contract with him. Either way that SEVERELY narrows the market

That limits his market to 9 teams. He's not really a fit with Cincinatti, San Francisco, The Giants, Rams, Cardinals(who under McCoy run more of a zone scheme. He ran power last season but that was a miserable failure so he will probably switch back to zone where he was most successful. Not to mention Shipley, who played REALLY well for them the season before comes in at a fraction of the price and his bad season could be attributed to playing through injury... Again).

So.. His likely market is.
Us
Jets
Bills
Redskins

now the bills have some FAs they need to retain. We can rule them out of the running because of this. EJ Gaines is going to command a lot of money on the open market and I could see them getting back a few other key players. Not to mention with their plethora of draft picks they may choose to pursue their need for C in the draft, and are more likely to resort to using that to rebuild their oline.

The Redskins might pursue a different route in FAs. They have so many offensive needs that they'll likely pursue playmakers in the offseason rather than line(because Snyder is a moron).

That leaves us and the Jets. The Jets have a ton of cap room and run a mixed scheme. They're our main competitor. They can outbid us, and are displaying interest. But why would the Jets go after the man when they have a nice home town guy across the locker room in Richburg they could go after?

But given all of these variables, better players have gone for cheaper even in recent years. I don't see it happening. Jensen isn't a player worth resetting the market for. He's a good player, who overachieved this season and his PFF grade is better than it should be due to other injuries around the league and other players playing in unideal schemes. Other teams are going to understand this. Why would they. There's a TON of uncertainty around them.

Spotrac has him valued at around $8.9 million. They tend to be close to accurate.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/ryan-jensen-12485/market-value/

That's more than doable because it's easier to manipulate cap than you would think.

I don't think he goes for $12 million. The Jets are stupid and desperate but I still have my doubts. He's not the type of guy worth resetting the market for because of all the uncertainty he brings to the table.

Of course. The Jets could just say "fuck it" and do this anyway to spite me.. But I don't think resigning Jensen is totally out of the picture and I'd pony up $10 mil if he wants it.
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
No to Jensen. He's a solid center, nothing more. I definitely like the attitude, the toughness and the versatility but he is far from dominant and if we are serious about building a DOMINANT line there is no way we should pay Jensen.
There are three, at least three centers in this draft with higher....much higher upside than Jensen and you get them for four years at a much lower rate of salary.
Most importantly, you are attempting to build something truly special as opposed to something that is simply solid or serviceable...which is what
you'll be over paying for with Jensen.

After all that, I'm pretty sure we'll sign him.
 
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RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
No to Jensen. He's a solid center, nothing more. I definitely like the attitude, the toughness and the versatility but he is far from dominant and if we are serious about building a DOMINANT line there is no way we should pay Jensen.
There are three, at least three centers in this draft with higher....much higher upside than Jensen and you get them for four years at a much lower rate of salary.
Most importantly, you are attempting to build something truly special as opposed to something that is simply solid or serviceable...which is what
you'll be over paying for with Jensen.

After all that, I'm pretty sure we'll sign him.
I agree with your sentiment. Although I like Jensen, he is far from dominant as you said and we can do better.. He's average and a much better pass blocker than a run blocker as his numbers show.
 
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