The 2021 Offseason Thread

[rmcjacket23]

It's not only that, though. Is Williams value $7.5M at this point? If it's not, they'll try to find a way to lessen that.

OK, but that's up to the Ravens. They just did a restructure in September, so they valued him at $7.5M for this season then. What's changed? Was he terrible last season?

If they value him at a lower number, it means they should be broaching about a paycut, not cutting him. I'm only cutting him after he's decline my overtures for a paycut AND I can find better use of the salary cap space or a better player for cheaper.

The last two things pretty much can't happen for at least two weeks, and may take considerably longer.

Like I keep saying...you don't create space when you don't need it. There are times where we won't even cut a player like him until after the draft. We may be able to sign anybody we were realistically hoping to get in FA without touching Williams deal. But then we get to May/June, and we need space to sign draft picks or add another cut. Then maybe you cut him.

Hell, we could even sign Lamar to a long-term extension in June, which would raise his cap hit by $5-6M or something like that, and realize we need to cut a player like BWill then to afford it. That would be more likely, given we'd have had a nearly whole offseason of FA and the draft to address a replacement or competition.

Players get cut all the time after the draft. Teams are adding at least a half dozen players to their roster, of which most are guaranteed roster spots for the first year. That's going to cost veterans jobs, either right after the draft or in camp. That's the nature of the NFL.

 

[Willbacker]

Who? Williams? No roster bonus due. He's only due a $7.5M base salary. He's got $6.9M in bonus prorations from prior years, which is the dead money.

It shows on otc that he has a 4.5 mil salary and a 3 mil roster bonus.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/baltimore-ravens/

 

[rossihunter2]

Who? Williams? No roster bonus due. He's only due a $7.5M base salary. He's got $6.9M in bonus prorations from prior years, which is the dead money.

he's right - he's only got a 4.5m base salary and a 3m roster bonus according to overthecap - it apparently comes due on the 3rd day of the league year (so march 20th)

https://overthecap.com/player/brandon-williams/2241/

 

[rmcjacket23]

It shows on otc that he has a 4.5 mil salary and a 3 mil roster bonus.

http://overthecap.com/calculator/baltimore-ravens/

I stand corrected. Spotrac has a $7.5M base salary, so I went to the tiebreaker (which is the first place I should go), which was to McFarland on RSR. He has a $4.5M base with $3M bonus, so that seems right.

Truthfully, I don't know when its due or if its guaranteed.

Per McFarland's notes:
9/11/2020 Restructure: Restructured contract reduced Williams 2020 salary by $5M down to $4.25M. In return, Williams received a $4M Signing Bonus. This reduced his 2020 Cap number by $3M. The Restructure also reduced his 2021 salary by $5M. In return, Williams received a $3M Roster Bonus. Williams’ 2021 Cap number remains the same. In all, Williams took a $3M paycut.

So he basically took a $1M paycut in 2020 and a $2M paycut in 2021 off his original contract. However, based on this, it would appear the $3M roster bonus isn't guaranteed, which is a bit odd for him to agree to, but I guess not surprising.

 

[Willbacker]

I stand corrected. Spotrac has a $7.5M base salary, so I went to the tiebreaker (which is the first place I should go), which was to McFarland on RSR. He has a $4.5M base with $3M bonus, so that seems right.

Truthfully, I don't know when its due or if its guaranteed.

Per McFarland's notes:
9/11/2020 Restructure: Restructured contract reduced Williams 2020 salary by $5M down to $4.25M. In return, Williams received a $4M Signing Bonus. This reduced his 2020 Cap number by $3M. The Restructure also reduced his 2021 salary by $5M. In return, Williams received a $3M Roster Bonus. Williams’ 2021 Cap number remains the same. In all, Williams took a $3M paycut.

So he basically took a $1M paycut in 2020 and a $2M paycut in 2021 off his original contract. However, based on this, it would appear the $3M roster bonus isn't guaranteed, which is a bit odd for him to agree to, but I guess not surprising.

He could have been looking at being cut if he didn't and the 3 mil paycut at the time was spilled into 2 yrs softening the hit. Usually if anybody is getting cut its before the roster bonus is due but damn lol I just have no idea when its due.

Also lmao at the "tiebreaker". OTC just seems so much more on point than spotrac but thanks for the info bout RSR.

 

[Willbacker]

he's right - he's only got a 4.5m base salary and a 3m roster bonus according to overthecap - it apparently comes due on the 3rd day of the league year (so march 20th)

https://overthecap.com/player/brandon-williams/2241/

Ulp. Just now seeing this. So March 20th it is then. We'll see what they do.

 

[Simba]

OK, but that's up to the Ravens. They just did a restructure in September, so they valued him at $7.5M for this season then. What's changed? Was he terrible last season?

If they value him at a lower number, it means they should be broaching about a paycut, not cutting him. I'm only cutting him after he's decline my overtures for a paycut AND I can find better use of the salary cap space or a better player for cheaper.

The last two things pretty much can't happen for at least two weeks, and may take considerably longer.

Like I keep saying...you don't create space when you don't need it. There are times where we won't even cut a player like him until after the draft. We may be able to sign anybody we were realistically hoping to get in FA without touching Williams deal. But then we get to May/June, and we need space to sign draft picks or add another cut. Then maybe you cut him.

Hell, we could even sign Lamar to a long-term extension in June, which would raise his cap hit by $5-6M or something like that, and realize we need to cut a player like BWill then to afford it. That would be more likely, given we'd have had a nearly whole offseason of FA and the draft to address a replacement or competition.

Players get cut all the time after the draft. Teams are adding at least a half dozen players to their roster, of which most are guaranteed roster spots for the first year. That's going to cost veterans jobs, either right after the draft or in camp. That's the nature of the NFL.

I still think you're missing the point here. I am sure if they don't value him at $7.5M, they'll approach him with a pay cut. If he says no, that's where I get risky. Tell him to go see his value on the open market and if it isn't there, we'll talk.

And again, it's not about just needing money. If Williams isn't worth $7.5M (and I have strong doubts in this market), then he could be the one that gets the boot for the time being. It's not just about having resources - it's about using them wisely.

For what it's worth, I don't think they want to cut him. I'm just saying if I was in charge, that's what I'd do. I don't find him valuable enough at this juncture to justify $7.5M. But I'd also love to have him stay, and ideally that would be at a lower amount.

 

[rossihunter2]

I stand corrected. Spotrac has a $7.5M base salary, so I went to the tiebreaker (which is the first place I should go), which was to McFarland on RSR. He has a $4.5M base with $3M bonus, so that seems right.

Truthfully, I don't know when its due or if its guaranteed.

Per McFarland's notes:
9/11/2020 Restructure: Restructured contract reduced Williams 2020 salary by $5M down to $4.25M. In return, Williams received a $4M Signing Bonus. This reduced his 2020 Cap number by $3M. The Restructure also reduced his 2021 salary by $5M. In return, Williams received a $3M Roster Bonus. Williams’ 2021 Cap number remains the same. In all, Williams took a $3M paycut.

So he basically took a $1M paycut in 2020 and a $2M paycut in 2021 off his original contract. However, based on this, it would appear the $3M roster bonus isn't guaranteed, which is a bit odd for him to agree to, but I guess not surprising.

he took more money guaranteed overall to preserve his long-term position on the roster - basically took some guaranteed bonus money over total sum

and fyi the roster bonus comes due on the 3rd day of the league year (so by my counting that's march the 20th)

 

[JO_75]

There's the OL help we need, a veteran starter now available. Does anyone know if he was good year last year?



Edit: Raiders looking at trading Trent Brown too, damn they re-doing their offensive line this offseason.

 

[rmcjacket23]

he took more money guaranteed overall to preserve his long-term position on the roster - basically took some guaranteed bonus money over total sum

and fyi the roster bonus comes due on the 3rd day of the league year (so by my counting that's march the 20th)

Yeah I mean it was a bit odd though. The restructure was in September. He had no guaranteed money in 2020. So they basically just cut his non-guaranteed 2020 salary, gave him a fully guaranteed 2020 salary and signing bonus. Then they slashed his 2021 base salary, but gave him a roster bonus instead (at a discount), though none of that was guaranteed either.

So like while I get that Williams took a $1M paycut last year, the $2M paycut he took for 2021 doesn't mean he's guaranteed a spot. That's sort of why its so odd, because it happens in September. If it had happened in like the Summer or Spring, I would have understood, because there was a threat of a cut. But its not like the Ravens were going to cut him in September if he declined the paycut.

I think all this did was slightly increase his chances of staying here for 2021. It didn't guarantee it though.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I still think you're missing the point here. I am sure if they don't value him at $7.5M, they'll approach him with a pay cut. If he says no, that's where I get risky. Tell him to go see his value on the open market and if it isn't there, we'll talk.

And again, it's not about just needing money. If Williams isn't worth $7.5M (and I have strong doubts in this market), then he could be the one that gets the boot for the time being. It's not just about having resources - it's about using them wisely.

For what it's worth, I don't think they want to cut him. I'm just saying if I was in charge, that's what I'd do. I don't find him valuable enough at this juncture to justify $7.5M. But I'd also love to have him stay, and ideally that would be at a lower amount.

OK. But my point is if the Ravens valued him at $7.5M in September, what's changed to make his value go down? His performance on the field was perfectly fine and commensurate with what we were paying him. The "lower salary cap" argument doesn't really hold, because everybody knew in September that 2021 was going to be a declining cap year.

So for me, there's two things that would trigger his release:
1. They already pretty much know they're going to cut him, and just haven't done it yet. I call this doubtful, because the Ravens are usually extremely friendly to players they know they're releasing, and both sides obviously have a great relationship. I think if they planned to cut him, they would have done so already, and let him get a head start on the FA search.
2. A player or players become available that we determine we are able to sign, and need the cap resources to do it. i.e. we value that player's contribution over Williams, and we need Williams cap impact to sign said player.

Option 1, again, doesn't make much sense to me.
Option 2 makes plenty of sense, but again, there's no point in cutting now until said players become available.

 

[Simba]

OK. But my point is if the Ravens valued him at $7.5M in September, what's changed to make his value go down? His performance on the field was perfectly fine and commensurate with what we were paying him. The "lower salary cap" argument doesn't really hold, because everybody knew in September that 2021 was going to be a declining cap year.

So for me, there's two things that would trigger his release:
1. They already pretty much know they're going to cut him, and just haven't done it yet. I call this doubtful, because the Ravens are usually extremely friendly to players they know they're releasing, and both sides obviously have a great relationship. I think if they planned to cut him, they would have done so already, and let him get a head start on the FA search.
2. A player or players become available that we determine we are able to sign, and need the cap resources to do it. i.e. we value that player's contribution over Williams, and we need Williams cap impact to sign said player.

Option 1, again, doesn't make much sense to me.
Option 2 makes plenty of sense, but again, there's no point in cutting now until said players become available.

I'd argue what has changed is the market. Now that we're seeing all of these players being cut (with a bunch more to come), his value likely is not near as high. Again, throw him out on the open market and I'd be shocked if he comes close to $7.5M. If he's not worth that, why would we pay him that?

To your point 1, I think the difference in that argument is that we'd ideally want him back. If you cut him at the beginning of FA, he's competing with everyone else. If you cut him now, there's not as much competition. I'm all about helping the player but this would be more of a business move because we would like to retain him.

 

[JAAM]

There's the OL help we need, a veteran starter now available. Does anyone know if he was good year last year?



Edit: Raiders looking at trading Trent Brown too, damn they re-doing their offensive line this offseason.

He got high marks last year and is only 30. I’d be elated if we signed him

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'd argue what has changed is the market. Now that we're seeing all of these players being cut (with a bunch more to come), his value likely is not near as high. Again, throw him out on the open market and I'd be shocked if he comes close to $7.5M. If he's not worth that, why would we pay him that?

To your point 1, I think the difference in that argument is that we'd ideally want him back. If you cut him at the beginning of FA, he's competing with everyone else. If you cut him now, there's not as much competition. I'm all about helping the player but this would be more of a business move because we would like to retain him.

I don't think he'd probably have that much problem getting at least $5-6M in cash this year. He doesn't need to average $7.5M to get $7.5M. If somebody signs him to a 2 year deal for $10M total, with a $5M signing bonus and a $2M salary, that's still $7M in cash this year for him, and a $4.5M cap hit for a team. I don't think a lot of teams would sweat having Williams at a $4.5M cap hit. If he had that cap impact on the Ravens right now, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

He just wouldn't get any guaranteed money beyond this year. And in that instance, a team could cut him and save $3M next year, with only $2.5M in dead money. There's plenty of ways to structure deals where he could sign for an AAV of less than $7.5M and still get at or close to it in cash in 2021. I mean lets be realistic...he's likely to be out of the league entirely in probably 3 years, max. I think he knows that and the Ravens probably know that too.

 

[rmcjacket23]

He got high marks last year and is only 30. I’d be elated if we signed him

Was ranked 40th out of 80 per PFF. Though he did grade quite a bit higher in pass protection, which I would assume is what we're focused on for the OLine.

 

[Willbacker]

He got high marks last year and is only 30. I’d be elated if we signed him

Nah I'm pretty much "centered" on Lindsley.

 

[JAAM]

Nah I'm pretty much "centered" on Lindsley.

Oh I agree, but Gabe shouldn’t be pricey at all. Lindsley is my #SIIE target

 

[JAAM]

If we can sign Lindsley/Thuney/Gabe Jackson and either Corey Davis and Marvin Jones somehow, I’d be extremely happy

 

[Deebo813]

if he's at 5-6m then there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't be bringing him back

he was 2nd on the team in INTs (he'd only had 1 in year 1 but he was due for more - i even said it in my pre-season video i did on bowser last year that id have been shocked if he didnt come away with at least 1 or 2 INTs this year) - i think it's highly likely he continues getting picks through his ravens career (if he stays) as long as he's on the field

INTS + some pass rush + some run defence + general pass defence seems to me to be easily worth 5-6m

Idk how much van voy is worth right now but if we can get him at a good price id go for it.. he is a better version of bowser for sure. Tbh, if we let go both yannick and judon, i wouldnt mind having bowser and van voy. Both players are a do it all type.

 

[rossihunter2]

well if that process is gonna end at any point it better hurry up and be done before the end of april otherwise we're not getting the chance to find a replacement