The 2021 Offseason Thread

[drjohnnyfever]

We've done a good job with drafting both lines. We still do poorly drafting WR's. Although, I think the jury is still out on the WR part of the draft that got us both Hollywood and Boykin. Both are entering year 3 and that tends to be the year that WR's "get it."

Our problem - to me - is that we have smartly locked down two important anchors in Stanley and Humphrey. I think Lamar is next. Those three positions alone are going to account for an enormous amount of the cap. That said, we are going to need to continue to be good at our late round OFF and DEF line picks, because FA OFF and DEF linemen are too expensive with what our cap is going to be. We are going to have to allot cap money to WR, Ngakoue, and probably Safety this. We're also going to have to rely on guys like Wolf - or at least that kind of scenario - who can have an impact but who come cheap because they are closer to the end of their careers. It's why I think AJ Green, Higgins, or Hilton are more of what we are likely to get than any of the younger FA's.

But I will go on the record again, that I think we need to draft another TE to pair with Andrews. Boyle will get his occasional targets too, but I think trading Hayden Hurst hurt us in ways few attributed to his absence. Also, solidifying that position with more youth and talent potentially would make Andrews expendable if his first FA contract becomes impossible for us to accommodate. Many of the FA TE's are either too risky or too expensive. Altho, Kyle Rudolf is intriguing, I can't imagine he would come cheap.

 

[rossihunter2]

I really hope we land Corey linsley. I’d like to see us sign him, flip Orlando, and hopefully nab teven Jenkins in R1 and I’m torn between powers, Phillips, or a rookie at RG, I like trey smith, Jackson carman, Ben Cleveland, and David Moore as day 2 guys who look like solid RG candidates

not the biggest fan of Ben Cleveland but love the other 3 guys you mentioned (still think it's probable Carman gets drafted to play tackle though)

that being said i think especially with the way we like to anchor our running game on that right side (and have the LG pull) i can think of no better rookie option than Wyatt Davis to play RG here but Trey Smith would be a great option too

if i could trust deonte brown not to come in overweight and lumbering at 360+lbs like he did at the senior bowl then he'd be an amazing guard candidate - some of his tape is unreal with his ability to move at his size but not at the size he was at the senior bowl (and it's apparently been an issue his whole Bama career)

David Moore's a lot of fun - lots of people projecting him to C rather than G - and he is only 5'11
another super small-school guy to look at is Quinn Meinerz

probably a day 3 guy but i liked Aaron Banks too out of Notre Dame - was really impressed when i was watching Eichenberg and he went out and rather than put in a tackle (or move Hainsey to LT) they shifted Banks from LG to LT and his footwork looked really good despite tape where he seems to have some heavy-footedness - wouldn't love him in a zone scheme but with the way we use our guards (especially right guards) he's a great fit

 

[JoeyFlex5]

not the biggest fan of Ben Cleveland but love the other 3 guys you mentioned (still think it's probable Carman gets drafted to play tackle though)

that being said i think especially with the way we like to anchor our running game on that right side (and have the LG pull) i can think of no better rookie option than Wyatt Davis to play RG here but Trey Smith would be a great option too

if i could trust deonte brown not to come in overweight and lumbering at 360+lbs like he did at the senior bowl then he'd be an amazing guard candidate - some of his tape is unreal with his ability to move at his size but not at the size he was at the senior bowl (and it's apparently been an issue his whole Bama career)

David Moore's a lot of fun - lots of people projecting him to C rather than G - and he is only 5'11
another super small-school guy to look at is Quinn Meinerz

probably a day 3 guy but i liked Aaron Banks too out of Notre Dame - was really impressed when i was watching Eichenberg and he went out and rather than put in a tackle (or move Hainsey to LT) they shifted Banks from LG to LT and his footwork looked really good despite tape where he seems to have some heavy-footedness - wouldn't love him in a zone scheme but with the way we use our guards (especially right guards) he's a great fit

I thought banks was a little heavy footed, and deonte brown often looks uninterested on tape, those 2 just didn’t do it for me.

Also trey hill is a guy I think keeps getting overlooked. He could be a sneaky day 2 pick and I wouldn’t be shocked if he had an onwenwu type of start to his career but at C.

 

[rossihunter2]

I thought banks was a little heavy footed, and deonte brown often looks uninterested on tape, those 2 just didn’t do it for me.

Also trey hill is a guy I think keeps getting overlooked. He could be a sneaky day 2 pick and I wouldn’t be shocked if he had an onwenwu type of start to his career but at C.

if you think aaron banks is heavy-footed lol (which i agree he's not fleet of foot) idk what to tell you about hill lol

i liked onwenu a lot more than i liked hill - i just dont think that hill is anywhere near as physically dominant as he should be - and he has almost no lateral mobility - heavy-footed, gets caught leaning a ton, don't think he plays with particularly good pad-level...

and the more i watch the less i like him - at this point i'm not even thinking about him until maybe mid-day 3 - and there's no way i think he would start for this ravens team in the near future and i dont think he's particularly position versatile either so he doesn't even offer 3 position flexibility

 

[SepticeyePoe]

 

[JoeyFlex5]

if you think aaron banks is heavy-footed lol (which i agree he's not fleet of foot) idk what to tell you about hill lol

i liked onwenu a lot more than i liked hill - i just dont think that hill is anywhere near as physically dominant as he should be - and he has almost no lateral mobility - heavy-footed, gets caught leaning a ton, don't think he plays with particularly good pad-level...

and the more i watch the less i like him - at this point i'm not even thinking about him until maybe mid-day 3 - and there's no way i think he would start for this ravens team in the near future and i dont think he's particularly position versatile either so he doesn't even offer 3 position flexibility

Hill is heavy footed as well but I think there’s a pretty significant difference in their functional play strength, hill is a Paul Bunyan mountain moving mf consistently, I didn’t see that same dominance from banks.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Every cut looked aimless lol

 

[rossihunter2]

Hill is heavy footed as well but I think there’s a pretty significant difference in their functional play strength, hill is a Paul Bunyan mountain moving mf consistently, I didn’t see that same dominance from banks.

haha see i see it the exact opposite way around lol

 

[RavensMania]

I know opinions on Peter King run hot and cold on this board. His FMIA column today leads off with concerns about the draft and the interview is with Daniel Jeremiah. Below are some highlights. I would encourage anyone interested in the draft to read the whole thing

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ia-peter-king/

his is the kind of pre-draft season it’s been: There’s a first-round pass-rush prospect from the University of Miami named Gregory Rousseau. High school wideout/safety. College history, checkered. Year one: Played a few snaps as a freshman, got hurt, redshirted. Year two: ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year with 15.5 sacks. Year three: Opted out because of COVID concerns. Basically, four months of college game experience. No NFL Scouting Combine to probe him physically and mentally. No in-person visits with teams; Zoom meetings only. Rousseau is 20 years old.

Information sources? Shut off, pretty much, for so many of the prospects. In the fall, NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah wanted to know how much Rousseau weighed; he played his one season at 248, but it was a year later, and Rousseau, after opting out, was totally off the grid. “I DM’d him on Twitter, just trying to get info any way I could,” Jeremiah said. “And he wrote back: 262.”

“More than any year I’ve been doing this,” Jeremiah told me Saturday evening, “this draft’s a mystery. Say you’re watching a kid who played a season against great competition in the SEC this year, and you’re comparing him to a kid who opted out, maybe played nine or 10 games in 2019, and you haven’t seen him play football in over 400 days. It’s crazy...


...One other point about the importance of the 2021 draft: A look at the cap space on Over The Cap for the current season shows that exactly half the teams, 16 of 32, are either over the projected salary cap or have less than $10 million to spend. An average team will spend $8 million to $10 million to sign its rookies—so that shows you exactly how important the rookies are this year. Several teams will be forced to all but steer clear of significant free agents to build their rosters in 2021. Talk about combustible: There’s more of a need for rookies to contribute this year, and the knowledge base of those rookies will likely be lower than any year in memory.

I had one GM tell me Sunday his team is having trouble in three major draft areas:

• More players than ever—in this GM’s memory—have one season of successful college football only (such as Rousseau). The error rate on those players, because they’ve had less experience than normal prospects, is higher.

• With no on-campus scouting this year other than the Pro Day, the exposure to information sources is reduced. The GM said draft meetings so far have shown less information than ever in things like, How does he take coaching? What kind of teammate is he? What’s his work ethic?

• Limited medical information. Combine physical exams are notoriously thorough, sometimes discovering previously undiagnosed ailments. This GM told me his team won’t have trust in the exams till their own doctors can examine them—after the draft...

..Not a great defensive draft, at all. Jeremiah has 24 players with first-round grades, only 10 on defense. (For the record, four quarterbacks, four wideouts, three offensive linemen, two running backs, one tight end, three edge players, three linebackers, three corners, and one safety. No defensive tackles.) Jeremiah has Rousseau, Jaelan Phillips of Miami and Kwity Paye of Michigan atop his Edge rankings, but it doesn’t seem like any of them are locks...

...Best position in the draft: Wide receiver (again). In the last two drafts, teams have picked a total of 30 wideouts in the first three rounds. This year, Jeremiah has 19 receivers with grades in the top three rounds. When you see the recent draft depth of the position—third-round wideouts from the last three years: Terry McLaurin, Michael Gallup, Tre’Quan Smith, Diontae Johnson—I begin to think NFL teams should start treating the receiver position like running backs. Don’t waste a high pick on one; you can get a good one in the seventies, eighties, nineties overall.

“It’s almost the same every year now, Jeremiah said. “Last year, I had a record number of guys with top-three-round grades [27]. Not as much this year, but so many good options in the second, third, fourth rounds.” Most draft boards will have LSU’s Ja’Marr Chase and Alabama’s DeVonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle among the top 12 picks. Kadarius Toney of Florida is Jeremiah’s fourth first-round wideout, but his favorite wideout at a bargain price (mid-round two) is Mississippi’s Elijah Moore: “There were games that nobody could cover him.”

Surest position at the top? Might be offensive line. It’s not deep, but either Rashawn Slater of Northwestern or Penei Sewell of Oregon (both were 2020 opt-outs) could be opening-day left tackles in September. They should both go in the top six or eight. Slater played well against Ohio State and ace edge-rusher Chase Young in their 2019 meeting. Alijah Vera-Tucker (USC) could play guard or tackle comfortably, and Christian Darrisaw (Virginia Tech) and Jalen Mayfield (Michigan) could crack the end of the first round.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'll summarize the notable highlights from the DeCosta/Harbaugh PC today:

• Not much progress on the Lamar contract talks, but DeCosta kind of hinted at the idea that he knows it'll be super expensive and "discounts" aren't really a thing with these types of discussions
• Doesn't appear to be any urgency to trade Brown. In fact, both DeCosta and Harbaugh referenced him as an option at LT if Stanley doesn't progress through the offseason. DeCosta said "what's best for the team" on like numerous occasions in these discussions. General thought is he may be more likely to stay than leave.
• Prelim discussions with Andrews on long-term extension are ongoing
• Looking to get more draft picks (7 currently)
• Expectation is Brandon Williams to be on the roster in 2021
• Gus Edwards will be back, either as a tendered RFA or on an extension
• Multiple directions they feel they can go at Center. DeCosta said top internal option, at this point, may be moving Bozeman to Center. Seems pretty clear Ravens are unhappy with what they had in 2020 there.
• Earl Thomas grievance is ongoing and will take time to resolve.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'll summarize the notable highlights from the DeCosta/Harbaugh PC today:

• Not much progress on the Lamar contract talks, but DeCosta kind of hinted at the idea that he knows it'll be super expensive and "discounts" aren't really a thing with these types of discussions
• Doesn't appear to be any urgency to trade Brown. In fact, both DeCosta and Harbaugh referenced him as an option at LT if Stanley doesn't progress through the offseason. DeCosta said "what's best for the team" on like numerous occasions in these discussions. General thought is he may be more likely to stay than leave.
• Prelim discussions with Andrews on long-term extension are ongoing
• Looking to get more draft picks (7 currently)
• Expectation is Brandon Williams to be on the roster in 2021
• Gus Edwards will be back, either as a tendered RFA or on an extension
• Multiple directions they feel they can go at Center. DeCosta said top internal option, at this point, may be moving Bozeman to Center. Seems pretty clear Ravens are unhappy with what they had in 2020 there.
• Earl Thomas grievance is ongoing and will take time to resolve.

This seems like the offseason to land a center. If we keep Orlando brown and don’t sign a C in FA I’d be on board with trading back and hoping to land creed Humphrey in round 2, if we can find a partner and if he falls to there, which isn’t a given

 

[rossihunter2]

I could honestly listen to EDC talk about the draft and team-building forever lol - he has to be one of the most (if not the most) honest and engaging and available GMs in the league - obviously he's not going to give away in-house secrets but he often seems genuinely so interested in some of the philosophical questions posed to him about team-building and i think he's naturally collaborative so he wants to share and dissect those questions

it is honestly amazing how lucky we've been as a franchise to first get Ozzie and for him to handover to Eric and despite that for them to have 2 distinctive styles too



this part of his presser in particular - it seems so obvious - but i always like the fact that he uses examples in his answers too - doesn't leave things vague if there's no reason to

 

[rossihunter2]

• Doesn't appear to be any urgency to trade Brown. In fact, both DeCosta and Harbaugh referenced him as an option at LT if Stanley doesn't progress through the offseason. DeCosta said "what's best for the team" on like numerous occasions in these discussions. General thought is he may be more likely to stay than leave.

i think the other takeaway here is that the relationship doesn't seem to be contentious at all - EDC showed some empathy for Orlando and there's no ill will - was interesting also that Harbs seemed to suggest that there would be no issues with Orlando playing RT if it came to it

right now it would seem they're very content for Orlando to remain a Raven (as you'd expect) but they aren't begrudging him his attempt to find a trade

the lack of urgency (or the lack of deadline) suggests to me that they'd rather he stayed because i cannot see how they would want this to go beyond the draft when suddenly the ability to replace him in any meaningful way is basically gone

 

[rmcjacket23]

i think the other takeaway here is that the relationship doesn't seem to be contentious at all - EDC showed some empathy for Orlando and there's no ill will - was interesting also that Harbs seemed to suggest that there would be no issues with Orlando playing RT if it came to it

right now it would seem they're very content for Orlando to remain a Raven (as you'd expect) but they aren't begrudging him his attempt to find a trade

the lack of urgency (or the lack of deadline) suggests to me that they'd rather he stayed because i cannot see how they would want this to go beyond the draft when suddenly the ability to replace him in any meaningful way is basically gone

Agreed. While I think he could be traded, I think the most likely avenue is he's not traded.

At the end of the day, everybody knows what's going on here. Orlando wants to play LT as soon as he can, probably due to a combination of a) him liking it better and b) it obviously pays quite a bit better. He's gone after 2021 in pretty much any possible situation unless like Ronnie Stanley were to like die or something (kidding, but you get the point), so he's just making it clear what he wants. And ultimately, for 2021, its not up to him. He's under contract, there's virtually nothing he can do to get out of the contract, and he'll play whatever position the Ravens tell him to play if they don't trade him.

 

[rossihunter2]

Agreed. While I think he could be traded, I think the most likely avenue is he's not traded.

At the end of the day, everybody knows what's going on here. Orlando wants to play LT as soon as he can, probably due to a combination of a) him liking it better and b) it obviously pays quite a bit better. He's gone after 2021 in pretty much any possible situation unless like Ronnie Stanley were to like die or something (kidding, but you get the point), so he's just making it clear what he wants. And ultimately, for 2021, its not up to him. He's under contract, there's virtually nothing he can do to get out of the contract, and he'll play whatever position the Ravens tell him to play if they don't trade him.

we knew that already of course - the bit i found interesting was the way EDC related Orlando's desire to play LT - "his dream" - to his own dream of becoming a GM in the league and that while obviously they want to do right by the club they do want to do right by orlando also and my guess is he understands that too which is partly why they're letting him/his agent try and proactively find that deal right now that we might consider

 

[rossihunter2]

Well this tidbit about Tee Martin and Keith Williams from Harbs I found super insightful about how they'll fit together and what their titles mean

Tee Martin is the WR coach and that means he's taking on that group and taking on responsibility for coaching that position through all it's aspects be that schematic or even down to blocking etc. - taking on a traditional positional coaching role as you'd expect

Dubb is coming in to do lots of stuff but predominantly he's coming in to specifically focus on route-running - but across all skill position groups - yes that probably means receivers but he's coming in to coach route-running for all those groups

the one worry would be that you've potentially got too many guys trying to teach the same stuff in different ways - but as long as Tee and Dubb and Bobby Engram and Craig Ver Steeg are all on the same page collaboratively and work out how they'll work together I think it'll work really well - but it's certainly possible that there are some kinks that would need working out early especially if it's unclear where Dubb fits in the "hierarchy"

but it's super exciting that not only have we brought in Dubb who's an amazing coach - but we've brought him in to basically be an in-house route-running guru - not for a specific position but a specific element of the game - it's not something i've seen from other franchises this kind of dynamic so it could well not work out and it'll probably be down to those 4 guys whether it works out or not

 

[rossihunter2]

the more harbs talks about Dubb, the more it sounds like he feels like he pulled off an absolute coup to get him into the building - talking about how there's very few guys like Keith which is why his role here is pretty unique with regards to the rest of the league

 

[cdp]

Well this tidbit about Tee Martin and Keith Williams from Harbs I found super insightful about how they'll fit together and what their titles mean

Tee Martin is the WR coach and that means he's taking on that group and taking on responsibility for coaching that position through all it's aspects be that schematic or even down to blocking etc. - taking on a traditional positional coaching role as you'd expect

Dubb is coming in to do lots of stuff but predominantly he's coming in to specifically focus on route-running - but across all skill position groups - yes that probably means receivers but he's coming in to coach route-running for all those groups

the one worry would be that you've potentially got too many guys trying to teach the same stuff in different ways - but as long as Tee and Dubb and Bobby Engram and Craig Ver Steeg are all on the same page collaboratively and work out how they'll work together I think it'll work really well - but it's certainly possible that there are some kinks that would need working out early especially if it's unclear where Dubb fits in the "hierarchy"

but it's super exciting that not only have we brought in Dubb who's an amazing coach - but we've brought him in to basically be an in-house route-running guru - not for a specific position but a specific element of the game - it's not something i've seen from other franchises this kind of dynamic so it could well not work out and it'll probably be down to those 4 guys whether it works out or not

So Keith is exclusively responsible for route running? No play design responsibilities or college scheme analysis (similar to what the Chiefs do)?

 

[rossihunter2]

So Keith is exclusively responsible for route running? No play design responsibilities or college scheme analysis (similar to what the Chiefs do)?

i imagine there'll be other parts to it - he's part of the overall coaching staff so will have input in other areas but he's primary lane is that specialty element - relating to the details and fundamentals of how we run routes

would really recommend Harbs's presser from today - there's at least 2 separate questions posed to him about their roles and he explains it pretty well (i inferred a lot from the answer to the 1st question that he then ended up confirming in his answer to the later question)

but Harbs was very clear - Dubb is a "pass game specialist" not the "pass game coordinator" - and his title is only as vague as it is because they had to basically create a new title for him that didn't really exist before

 

[Bama Ravens]

In retrospect, was the Ngakoue trade even worth the time, let alone the picks?