The 2021 Offseason Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

i imagine there'll be other parts to it - he's part of the overall coaching staff so will have input in other areas but he's primary lane is that specialty element - relating to the details and fundamentals of how we run routes

would really recommend Harbs's presser from today - there's at least 2 separate questions posed to him about their roles and he explains it pretty well (i inferred a lot from the answer to the 1st question that he then ended up confirming in his answer to the later question)

but Harbs was very clear - Dubb is a "pass game specialist" not the "pass game coordinator" - and his title is only as vague as it is because they had to basically create a new title for him that didn't really exist before

The ravens as a whole feel so much more flexible and evolved these days. Ten years ago we felt so rigid and dated in our strategies and approaches, from drafting to FA spending to coaching. Harbaugh is becoming an experimental kinda coach, he’s constantly adding new coaching positions and just trying to constantly keep fresh new minds and eyes in the building it seems, looking for a breakthrough in the coaching staff.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

In retrospect, was the Ngakoue trade even worth the time, let alone the picks?

In retrospect, no. If we extended? Yeah. But perhaps we’re not extending him because the coaches see something very damning, the fact that he got such a low snap count vs the bills was telling, maybe wink and harbs don’t see a role for him on this defense, maybe his work ethic or attitude is poor, 3 teams in 3 years with an ugly split from the first team might suggest such a thing.

 

[rossihunter2]

The ravens as a whole feel so much more flexible and evolved these days. Ten years ago we felt so rigid and dated in our strategies and approaches, from drafting to FA spending to coaching. Harbaugh is becoming an experimental kinda coach, he’s constantly adding new coaching positions and just trying to constantly keep fresh new minds and eyes in the building it seems, looking for a breakthrough in the coaching staff.

as much as i love Ozzie, I think he stood down at the right time - he was never a massive fan of digital stuff and media stuff and analytics etc. - that's always been EDC's thing

I think the drafting of Lamar and the elevation of EDC have been massive in helping Harbs shift his approach into becoming more creative - I think Lamar being drafted forced him to think outside the box and I think EDC's elevation gave him a whole new toolkit to help him think outside the box and to his credit Harbs has embraced it all - I get the sense that he really enjoys finding new wrinkles and being at the cutting edge and it just seems to have revitalised him (obviously winning helps)

I think that the exodus of coaches this offseason was a bit of a blessing in disguise - Zrebiec mentioned earlier in the offseason that Harbs really wanted to add fresh voices to the room and this gave him the chance to - I think he's been challenged to think outside of his circle that he had before

now that's not to say he's ignoring those inner circle type hires - it doesn't really get anymore in-house from outside the building than Rob Ryan lol

but like you I think EDC taking more and more control (and eventually taking over) and Harbs embracing that new approach has been massively beneficial

 

[rossihunter2]

In retrospect, was the Ngakoue trade even worth the time, let alone the picks?

it was a calculated risk - give up a pick for a guy who could have put our defence over the top - the type of production we hadn't had access to recently especially in the open market with the chance to maybe find a long-term piece

but also with the understanding that if it didn't work out there's a fairly high probability we get that 3rd round pick back in 2022

it's hard to judge these trades in hindsight - if we knew the future we obviously wouldn't have done it but it was definitely worth the attempt to spark the pass rush

 

[Dom McRaven]

In retrospect, was the Ngakoue trade even worth the time, let alone the picks?

For my selfish reasons, yes.

 

[purplepittabread88]

I still can't even get over the fact that our organization isn't more pissed off about the fact we haven't scored more than 20 in a playoff game.
the new era team has put up a combined 52 points in 4 games, and 14 of those came in the 4th quarter of the blow out vs the chargers. like wow. I am not even a fan of paying a wr heavy money, but that actually makes me sick. No big time fires or offensive trades or singings. I will genuinely be very pissed if we dont throw millions at Lindsley or a guard at least.

 

[purplepittabread88]

I really like what he does pulling but I would be really happy if we put Bozeman at center. He is one of my favorite players I would want to keep. He lives in an RV, loves his job, and seems like a great guy to keep around. I am so tired of the revolving door at center we have had for almost a decade now. He could be the guy snapping it to Lamar for the next decade (I truly believe that)

One of the saddest losses I have ever had was Jensen. I loved his nasty attitude and just the idea of having a dominate center. It just makes sense to keep him.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I still can't even get over the fact that our organization isn't more pissed off about the fact we haven't scored more than 20 in a playoff game.
the new era team has put up a combined 52 points in 4 games, and 14 of those came in the 4th quarter of the blow out vs the chargers. like wow. I am not even a fan of paying a wr heavy money, but that actually makes me sick. No big time fires or offensive trades or singings. I will genuinely be very pissed if we dont throw millions at Lindsley or a guard at least.

i really hope the same tbh. in 2019 i thought the chiefs was all we had to worry about, build the defense to beat the chiefs and we will win a SB, but after the 2020 season i feel very different, i feel like our defense is going to be respectable 9/10 times when theyre healthy, regular or postseason, i only feel that way about the offense in the regular season, playoff football is different, and most nfl coaches step correct in the playoffs when theyre facing a 1 dimensional opponent.

this team has to go where the offense takes it, not the defense, if lamar is your guy then give him what he needs to be at his best, build the OL and get just ONE receiver who can beat press and separate vs man, and get your OCs head out of his ass with his play design and situational playcalling, and see how lamar responds.

 

[Simba]

I'll summarize the notable highlights from the DeCosta/Harbaugh PC today:

• Not much progress on the Lamar contract talks, but DeCosta kind of hinted at the idea that he knows it'll be super expensive and "discounts" aren't really a thing with these types of discussions
• Doesn't appear to be any urgency to trade Brown. In fact, both DeCosta and Harbaugh referenced him as an option at LT if Stanley doesn't progress through the offseason. DeCosta said "what's best for the team" on like numerous occasions in these discussions. General thought is he may be more likely to stay than leave.
• Prelim discussions with Andrews on long-term extension are ongoing
• Looking to get more draft picks (7 currently)
• Expectation is Brandon Williams to be on the roster in 2021
• Gus Edwards will be back, either as a tendered RFA or on an extension
• Multiple directions they feel they can go at Center. DeCosta said top internal option, at this point, may be moving Bozeman to Center. Seems pretty clear Ravens are unhappy with what they had in 2020 there.
• Earl Thomas grievance is ongoing and will take time to resolve.

The OBJ bit was the most telling for me. I'd be shocked if he goes anywhere at this point. And if he does, it'd have to be a huge haul in return. Stanley with 2 surgeries could be ready but there's no guarantee. We have an in house solution already. Doesn't make sense to "sell low" on him. It makes us worse even if we lose out on draft pick compensation in return.

 

[rossihunter2]

The OBJ bit was the most telling for me. I'd be shocked if he goes anywhere at this point. And if he does, it'd have to be a huge haul in return. Stanley with 2 surgeries could be ready but there's no guarantee. We have an in house solution already. Doesn't make sense to "sell low" on him. It makes us worse even if we lose out on draft pick compensation in return.

i wonder if a lack of urgency to get it done is partly based on the idea that we're fairly confident we're drafting a RT this year anyway because Orlando's definitely gone next year if he isn't gone this year

 

[purplepittabread88]

i really hope the same tbh. in 2019 i thought the chiefs was all we had to worry about, build the defense to beat the chiefs and we will win a SB, but after the 2020 season i feel very different, i feel like our defense is going to be respectable 9/10 times when theyre healthy, regular or postseason, i only feel that way about the offense in the regular season, playoff football is different, and most nfl coaches step correct in the playoffs when theyre facing a 1 dimensional opponent.

this team has to go where the offense takes it, not the defense, if lamar is your guy then give him what he needs to be at his best, build the OL and get just ONE receiver who can beat press and separate vs man, and get your OCs head out of his ass with his play design and situational playcalling, and see how lamar responds.

Right. We have had a top 5 defense 3 straight years and haven't done shit. When Lamars contract hits, he will have to win with a way worse defense. It scares me that he hasn't been able to carry us (or even the offense hasn't been able to) with such a good defense.
We held the bills in their stadium to 10, I know they took the gas off but if we score 17 points we would have been in the championship game. It really scares me.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

The OBJ bit was the most telling for me. I'd be shocked if he goes anywhere at this point. And if he does, it'd have to be a huge haul in return. Stanley with 2 surgeries could be ready but there's no guarantee. We have an in house solution already. Doesn't make sense to "sell low" on him. It makes us worse even if we lose out on draft pick compensation in return.

im starting to get on board with this. if jenkins or AVT is available at 27, take him, thats our likely stud RG for 2021 and possible RT beyond, and if they dont pan out at RT, oh well let them be a stud at RG and find yourself an average RT because theyre one of the easier positions to get by with average talent. with OBJ still at RT, adding one of those guys would turn our OL into a major strength assuming center is straightened up(i think we are content with falling back on bozeman if a situation doesnt come to us), that would be a big step in the right direction and i think either player is basically a slam dunk to at least be a stud of a G

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Right. We have had a top 5 defense 3 straight years and haven't done shit. When Lamars contract hits, he will have to win with a way worse defense. It scares me that he hasn't been able to carry us (or even the offense hasn't been able to) with such a good defense.
We held the bills in their stadium to 10, I know they took the gas off but if we score 17 points we would have been in the championship game. It really scares me.

well while lamar didnt play his smartest football vs the titans in the div round, he played well enough to win if his supporting cast had done a better job, there were some BRUTALLY timed dropped passes all throughout the game, along with some really piss poor looks from the OL giving up BIG pressure often, it decided the game early. i believe in lamars ability to play big in the playoffs, ive seen enough clutch from him to feel confident in it, what i dont believe in is the offenses ability to put together a winning effort with the current lineup.

 

[Simba]

i wonder if a lack of urgency to get it done is partly based on the idea that we're fairly confident we're drafting a RT this year anyway because Orlando's definitely gone next year if he isn't gone this year

Combo of the 2 if I had to guess. Need T insurance for both spots as it currently stands. But the Stanley scenario is definitely something interesting now that we know he had 2 surgeries. I was always kind of against it because I know Stanley doesn't have an easy recovery, but this just makes it more concrete that we need to keep Brown unless we get a huge offer that you can't turn down.

It's worth asking at this point if a 1st round pick is worth potentially have neither T on the field. My answer is a firm no at this point.

 

[rmcjacket23]

i wonder if a lack of urgency to get it done is partly based on the idea that we're fairly confident we're drafting a RT this year anyway because Orlando's definitely gone next year if he isn't gone this year

I think it just confirms my original suspicions, i.e. he's not getting traded without his "replacement" already on the roster.

We add a mid-tier Tackle in FA, maybe we escalate trade talks. We draft a tackle fairly early on in the draft (and likely add somebody in FA), then yes, it likely escalates trade talks. I haven't been convinced for a second he's even likely to be traded, nor do I think its required that they get a good 2021 draft pick for him. If he got moved in May, it wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[purplepittabread88]

well while lamar didnt play his smartest football vs the titans in the div round, he played well enough to win if his supporting cast had done a better job, there were some BRUTALLY timed dropped passes all throughout the game, along with some really piss poor looks from the OL giving up BIG pressure often, it decided the game early. i believe in lamars ability to play big in the playoffs, ive seen enough clutch from him to feel confident in it, what i dont believe in is the offenses ability to put together a winning effort with the current lineup.

Its crazy because the defense has been so clutch for us in every single game. The fact that the chargers and titans were both held under 30 with the turnovers we gave up (I think 5 both games) is actually insane. They have been so clutch in the postseason. everything you said is true but Lamar has also made game losing plays.
My only disagreement is Lamar's clutchnes. Browns and Titans to me were really the first end of the game cluthcness I have seen from him. I am not saying he's not clutch - most games he is ahead so early on it doesnt matter - but I dont think there is enough opportunities to claim him as being clutch or not clutch.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Its crazy because the defense has been so clutch for us in every single game. The fact that the chargers and titans were both held under 30 with the turnovers we gave up (I think 5 both games) is actually insane. They have been so clutch in the postseason. everything you said is true but Lamar has also made game losing plays.
My only disagreement is Lamar's clutchnes. Browns and Titans to me were really the first end of the game cluthcness I have seen from him. I am not saying he's not clutch - most games he is ahead so early on it doesnt matter - but I dont think there is enough opportunities to claim him as being clutch or not clutch.

arizona, seattle, NE, both games @cle, colts, titans WC, all felt like fairly clutch games from lamar, games where hes either going back and forth against an offense thats keeping us on the ropes, or is able to make enough plays vs a defense thats kicking our asses, i wouldnt say hes never appeared clutch, just that hes had 4 playoff games and looked bad in 3.

 

[Old Bay]

In an effort to keep the OL in good shape for this season, I'd be fine rolling with Stanley at RT this season as he works his way back. This would keep Brown at LT and happy. Keeps open the option to trade him mid-season if Stanley looks ready or to collect a compensatory pick when he walks. Obviously, I'd like to keep him long term at RT or move him for better draft compensation. Either way, I'd be looking for a OT early in the draft.

 

[UPennChem]

If we can somehow walk away from free agency with retaining Bowser, bringing in 1 quality offensive lineman, and either Marvin Jones or Corey Davis (But I significantly prefer Jones) i would be delighted.

Something I've been thinking for awhile is the Ravens wont cut BWill for only 7.5 million. The more I think about it though, if that 7.5 million is the difference between being able to retain Judon or Yannick, I think we have to do that. Our pass rush was not great and I shutter to imagine what it might be next year if the situation isn't given some care.

 

[rmcjacket23]

If we can somehow walk away from free agency with retaining Bowser, bringing in 1 quality offensive lineman, and either Marvin Jones or Corey Davis (But I significantly prefer Jones) i would be delighted.

Something I've been thinking for awhile is the Ravens wont cut BWill for only 7.5 million. The more I think about it though, if that 7.5 million is the difference between being able to retain Judon or Yannick, I think we have to do that. Our pass rush was not great and I shutter to imagine what it might be next year if the situation isn't given some care.

I honestly don't think they have any desire to bring Judon or Yannick back to the perceived "market rates". If either of those guys is above like probably $15-16M a year, I simply don't think the Ravens are interested at that price point, even if they could make the cap work. I think they want them both to test the market and see what happens. If they're unable to get the contracts they seek, I think they could plan on bringing one back at a discounted rate.

The challenge, I think, is that if these guys don't get what they're seeking, they'll probably be looking to do what a lot of FA will want to do, which is take one year deals. The issue with one year deals is it gives the team very little, if any, cap flexibility, unless you go the "void years" route, which I don't think is a smart move.

So even if Yannick hits the market and somehow we're able to get him at like $10M, I don't think the Ravens can afford a one year, $10M contract, since that's $10M straight to the cap. I don't see many paths, even with restructures or really even if you cut Williams, where you can sign a mid-tier FA WR AND an expensive Olineman AND then turn around and commit $10M on a one year deal to Judon or Yannick.

And on top of that... we're in extension talks with guys like Andrews and Lamar, who have very low cap hits. Any extension, no matter how you structure it, will involve a decent size increase to the current year cap.