2021 Edge Thread

[rossihunter2]

interesting arbitrary numbers - but my impression is that the correlation would be that this is about guys who can win with both burst and at least some bend - but obviously the numbers are fairly arbitrary - but it eliminates the super stiff athletes and a lot of the non-explosive athletes...

guys ive found who fit these numbers:

Jaelan Phillips (high pick)
Carlos Basham (high pick probably)
Jayson Oweh (high pick)
Quincy Roche (high-ish pick)
Elerson Smith (small school but probably day 2)
Shaka Toney (misses a lot of size benchmarks)
William Bradley-King (day 3)
Patrick Johnson (day 3)
Adetokunbo Ogundeji (day 3/udfa)
Milton Williams (DT/EDGE tweener + small school)
Romeo McKnight (not watched him)


Kwity Paye almost certainly would have but didn't run his 3 cone (high pick)
Daelin Hayes missed out on the numbers by .01s on his 3 cone (day 3) and Quincy Roche only just made it in by getting 7.20s dead for some additional context
Joshua Kaindoh also missed out on the numbers by .01s on his 3 cone but tested very explosively otherwise (really raw developmental guy)

 

[JED3]

Zaven bulked up to 270 lbs. To me that seems like he’s trying to play on the edge in the nfl. How do you guys like him there? Imo he showed the physical ability for it, but was lacking on physicality.

 

[RaineV1]

Zaven bulked up to 270 lbs. To me that seems like he’s trying to play on the edge in the nfl. How do you guys like him there? Imo he showed the physical ability for it, but was lacking on physicality.

I think he's better as an off the ball LB, but he can be a very good edge if he's dedicated to that positon. He would definitely fit Wink's defense.

 

[JED3]

I think he's better as an off the ball LB, but he can be a very good edge if he's dedicated to that positon. He would definitely fit Wink's defense.

He’d be a great tool to have no doubt. I’m wondering what his weight gain means. I’m assuming a team asked him to gain weight and they’d take him somewhere in the first. But does it elevate him to a top 15 pick or just into the first round in general?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

interesting arbitrary numbers - but my impression is that the correlation would be that this is about guys who can win with both burst and at least some bend - but obviously the numbers are fairly arbitrary - but it eliminates the super stiff athletes and a lot of the non-explosive athletes...

guys ive found who fit these numbers:

Jaelan Phillips (high pick)
Carlos Basham (high pick probably)
Jayson Oweh (high pick)
Quincy Roche (high-ish pick)
Elerson Smith (small school but probably day 2)
Shaka Toney (misses a lot of size benchmarks)
William Bradley-King (day 3)
Patrick Johnson (day 3)
Adetokunbo Ogundeji (day 3/udfa)
Milton Williams (DT/EDGE tweener + small school)
Romeo McKnight (not watched him)


Kwity Paye almost certainly would have but didn't run his 3 cone (high pick)
Daelin Hayes missed out on the numbers by .01s on his 3 cone (day 3) and Quincy Roche only just made it in by getting 7.20s dead for some additional context
Joshua Kaindoh also missed out on the numbers by .01s on his 3 cone but tested very explosively otherwise (really raw developmental guy)

I remember that article going around here and basically predicted Tim Williams, even if he didn’t have character issues, was gonna bust based on these metrics

 

[rossihunter2]

Zaven bulked up to 270 lbs. To me that seems like he’s trying to play on the edge in the nfl. How do you guys like him there? Imo he showed the physical ability for it, but was lacking on physicality.

i get that he's got the body and athleticism for it - but i have very little evidence that he can actually play edge
i honestly think baron browning or micah parsons have shown more as potential edge defenders than zaven...

much like last year i wasnt really sure what to do about zack baun who was an edge with the body of an off-ball LB, i dont know what to do with zaven collins who's a LB with the body of an edge...

 

[rossihunter2]

I remember that article going around here and basically predicted Tim Williams, even if he didn’t have character issues, was gonna bust based on these metrics

how odd - he only missed out on 1 of those metrics... tough to say he'll bust based on slightly missing that arbitrary cutoff in the 3-cone - and he looked really promising when on the field... seems fairly clear to me that he busted for character reasons alone

 

[JoeyFlex5]

how odd - he only missed out on 1 of those metrics... tough to say he'll bust based on slightly missing that arbitrary cutoff in the 3-cone - and he looked really promising when on the field... seems fairly clear to me that he busted for character reasons alone

He definitely failed for character reasons, but this article was being passed around here in 2017 like right after the site launched, I think it was Sami who was taking the article as gospel and declaring Tim Williams a future bust because he missed those benchmarks

 

[rossihunter2]

He definitely failed for character reasons, but this article was being passed around here in 2017 like right after the site launched, I think it was Sami who was taking the article as gospel and declaring Tim Williams a future bust because he missed those benchmarks

context is important - i think the numbers are interesting - and i thought it would be worthwhile seeing who hit those benchmarks - that doesnt mean that i think ade ogundeji is somehow better than ronnie perkins or ojulari or turner or odeyingbo or paye etc.

and i was so hyped about tim williams right up until the moment they cut him mid-season... i dont think ive ever been more disappointed that a prospect didnt pan out - because the talent was so clear on the field even in the pros lol

 

[RavensMania]

I think he's better as an off the ball LB, but he can be a very good edge if he's dedicated to that positon. He would definitely fit Wink's defense.

ZC is one of my favorite realistic players in this draft.

 

[Italian Raven]

it just irks me when all these guys have him rated so high yet in his description in those same profiles by those same draftniks they talk about him as a work in progress in need of some serious refinement

Lol
The opposite is true as well:" very good instinct as a pass rusher, great size, versatile..... Mid day 3" you say whaaat

That tells me a whole lot of 'experts opinions' are being strongly influenced by already existing boards and their fear of letting their own eyes speak.
It is ok to see things different, to discuss, to fail.

I've been looking at the last 10 years 3 cones results lately, and except for some athletic freaks who also happened to produce in the pros there's a high amount pass rusher with bad times who became just as successful.
I don't think there's much a correlation about the cones and pass rushers.

I'm heading to work now but I'll list them as soon as I have the time.

 

[Jacquouille]

Quincy Roche in the 3rd round and we have won thanks for jour attention.

 

[rossihunter2]

Lol
The opposite is true as well:" very good instinct as a pass rusher, great size, versatile..... Mid day 3" you say whaaat

That tells me a whole lot of 'experts opinions' are being strongly influenced by already existing boards and their fear of letting their own eyes speak.
It is ok to see things different, to discuss, to fail.

I've been looking at the last 10 years 3 cones results lately, and except for some athletic freaks who also happened to produce in the pros there's a high amount pass rusher with bad times who became just as successful.
I don't think there's much a correlation about the cones and pass rushers.

I'm heading to work now but I'll list them as soon as I have the time.

Lol - the number of them who’d watched someone like Payton turner and had him as a late day 3 until enough people went “huh? What are you talking about?”

I will say that RAS is somewhat predictive in the 1st round - in the sense that guys who don’t rate 8+ in RAS haven’t faired well in recent history as 1st round picks

which would suggest an answer as to why lots of teams do value athletic testing

but that’s not specific to edge - that’s across all positions

 

[Italian Raven]

@rossihunter2 I've lost you on 'RAS'
You can see I'm a bit rusty

 

[rossihunter2]

@rossihunter2 I've lost you on 'RAS'
You can see I'm a bit rusty

relative athletic scoring
here's the 2021 class
https://relativeathleticscores.com/2021/01/23/2021-draft-class-ras/

 

[RaineV1]

The more I look at Jordan Smith the more I really want him. That crazy combination of length, athleticism, motor, and bend is one of a kind. He does need some coaching and maybe some time in an nfl weight room, but the traits there are incredible.

 

[Italian Raven]

relative athletic scoring
here's the 2021 class
https://relativeathleticscores.com/2021/01/23/2021-draft-class-ras/

Ahh gotchya.
I've seen it already on the IG stories of some ravens'fanpage.

I just headed home.. Looking for some players who posted bad cone drills, as per before

 

[Italian Raven]

You know what? I actually think my love for Lawson had me kinda downplaying it but it's a fact that much more often than not a bad cones time is linked with a lesser edge rusher.
Following is the list of the (few) Edge prospects from 2011 to 2019 who have had a good amount of success despite posting disappointing numbers at this specific drill

Demarcus Lawrence (7.46)
Za'Darius Smith (7.42)
Arik Armstead (7.57) as 5t..non necessarily in the same category tho
Romeo Okwara (7.38)
Yannik Ngakoue (7.35)
Matt Judon (7.67)
Carl Lawson (7.56)
Bradley Chubb (7.37)

 

[rossihunter2]

You know what? I actually think my love for Lawson had me kinda downplaying it but it's a fact that much more often than not a bad cones time is linked with a lesser edge rusher.
Following is the list of the (few) Edge prospects from 2011 to 2019 who have had a good amount of success despite posting disappointing numbers at this specific drill

Demarcus Lawrence (7.46)
Za'Darius Smith (7.42)
Arik Armstead (7.57) as 5t..non necessarily in the same category tho
Romeo Okwara (7.38)
Yannik Ngakoue (7.35)
Matt Judon (7.67)
Carl Lawson (7.56)
Bradley Chubb (7.37)

probably worth noting both that many of those guys are pretty stiff athletes and 3 of them were ravens lol...

 

[Italian Raven]

probably worth noting both that many of those guys are pretty stiff athletes and 3 of them were ravens lol...

Kinda sad lol
At least we found Smith and Judon in the later rounds.. I'm tendentially scared af of our day 2 picks.
Don't even get me started with Correa, Bowser, Wormley, Ferguson..