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Offensive Coordinator Thread

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
So what you're telling me is that other teams don't get the ball out as fast as Joe did in the first eight weeks? You're telling me Brady doesn't get the ball out faster than Joe? You're telling me we had a low sack count because Joe "hold the ball and checkdown" Flacco got the ball out fast?

1. If you take a look at the stats, there is no correlation between sacks allowed and YPA. Saints had 8.1 YPA and 20 sacks. Chiefs had 8 YPA and 37 sacks. Tom Brady, with a usual 3 second release, took 35 sacks while averaging 7.9 YPA. On the other end of the spectrum, the Browns averaged 6.2 YPA while allowing 50 sacks. The Giants averaged 6.1 YPA while allowing 34. In the middle are the Jets, who averaged 6.9 while allowing 49. I think these numbers show there isn't really a correlation between YPA and sacks.

2. The problem was Joe checking down. Two of our three leading receivers averaged less than 9 YPC. Ben Watson led with 61 catches but averaged 8 yards a catch. Buck Allen was in third with 46 catches at just 5.5 yards a pop. Danny Woodhead had 33 catches with just 6 YPC. Boyle had 28 catches with an average of 7. Those are four of our top six receivers. If you combine their stats, you get 168 catches for 1,175, an average of 6.9 YPC. When 2/3 of your offense averages 6.9 YPC and one third of passes go for 0, you're gonna have a low YPA of around 5. 14/3 is 4.67.

I fully understand your argument but it's not supported by the data. The simple conclusion is that Joe likes throwing to the tight end flat and the RB button hook -- for no gain at all, a lot of the time. That's why we have such a low YPA.

You literally invented an argument that I was not making and argued with that. If I need to borrow any straw I know where to go.

I did not argue who had a faster release between Brady and Flacco, I did not argue that there is a general correlation, I argued (and you can see this by WATCHING the plays), that the Ravens were doing plays that made it impossible to give up sacks. The one read was a 5 yard throw and the check down was to the RB and those were going to happen before any possibility of a sack existed. We all watched it happen, we screamed to let the play develop but the problem was that that was the play. The couple times they did let the play develop ended in sacks or rushed throws so they basically stuck to these super quick throws underneath that the defense gave away.

We watched this be the playbook for weeks. I am not arguing about a correlation between sacks and time in the pocket. I am not arguing who has a faster release, I am saying that the Ravens would do these 4 yard underneath routes that the defense gave everytime and because of a combination of a shaky O-Line and an injured QB they did not trust more to happen.

Once the midseason rolled around and OLine was a stable unit instead of a revolving door, they opened up the playbook (and I would have to check but they either gave up less sacks in the 2nd half of the season outside of the game where Hurst was LT or and I can guarantee this part were able to much more safely open up playbook) and it exposed the weak receiving crew for what it was.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
I fully understand your argument but it's not supported by the data. The simple conclusion is that Joe likes throwing to the the tight end flat and the RB.......

As often happens I think the data may be skewed, or maybe better to say it doesn’t tell the whole story. Wouldn’t you agree? Prior to the patch work O line coming together it seemed the game plan was to keep things simple, get the ball out quick and protect an injured QB. After that the fact remained that the WRs abilities left a lot to be desired and some of the checkdowns were simply checkdowns out of necessity.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
You literally invented an argument that I was not making and argued with that. If I need to borrow any straw I know where to go.

I did not argue who had a faster release between Brady and Flacco, I did not argue that there is a general correlation, I argued (and you can see this by WATCHING the plays), that the Ravens were doing plays that made it impossible to give up sacks. The one read was a 5 yard throw and the check down was to the RB and those were going to happen before any possibility of a sack existed. We all watched it happen, we screamed to let the play develop but the problem was that that was the play. The couple times they did let the play develop ended in sacks or rushed throws so they basically stuck to these super quick throws underneath that the defense gave away.

We watched this be the playbook for weeks. I am not arguing about a correlation between sacks and time in the pocket. I am not arguing who has a faster release, I am saying that the Ravens would do these 4 yard underneath routes that the defense gave everytime and because of a combination of a shaky O-Line and an injured QB they did not trust more to happen.

Once the midseason rolled around and OLine was a stable unit instead of a revolving door, they opened up the playbook (and I would have to check but they either gave up less sacks in the 2nd half of the season outside of the game where Hurst was LT or and I can guarantee this part were able to much more safely open up playbook) and it exposed the weak receiving crew for what it was.
Didn’t see this prior to replying to Raven. Guess you could call mine the “executive summary”. lol
 

Tru11

Practice Squad
You literally invented an argument that I was not making and argued with that. If I need to borrow any straw I know where to go.

I did not argue who had a faster release between Brady and Flacco, I did not argue that there is a general correlation, I argued (and you can see this by WATCHING the plays), that the Ravens were doing plays that made it impossible to give up sacks. The one read was a 5 yard throw and the check down was to the RB and those were going to happen before any possibility of a sack existed. We all watched it happen, we screamed to let the play develop but the problem was that that was the play. The couple times they did let the play develop ended in sacks or rushed throws so they basically stuck to these super quick throws underneath that the defense gave away.

We watched this be the playbook for weeks. I am not arguing about a correlation between sacks and time in the pocket. I am not arguing who has a faster release, I am saying that the Ravens would do these 4 yard underneath routes that the defense gave everytime and because of a combination of a shaky O-Line and an injured QB they did not trust more to happen.

Once the midseason rolled around and OLine was a stable unit instead of a revolving door, they opened up the playbook (and I would have to check but they either gave up less sacks in the 2nd half of the season outside of the game where Hurst was LT or and I can guarantee this part were able to much more safely open up playbook) and it exposed the weak receiving crew for what it was.

we played the worst defenses the league had to offer in the 2nd half of the seasons other then the steelers.
 

RayRayRaven

Veteran
all the debate about why, loses me. don't even know what to say anymore.

we have a better coach than the browns.
 

cobrajet

Hall of Famer
Actually I am glad to hear they are hiring James Urban from the Bengals as quarterbacks coach. He may help Joe more than Marty and his experience as a wide receiver coach could help Bobby Ingram and our receivers. At least it is some new blood coming in here.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
we played the worst defenses the league had to offer in the 2nd half of the seasons other then the steelers.

Who the Ravens hung 39 on.

Also in Clevelands case I was not aware that being 14th was the worst in the league. I guess 18 teams must really feel bad.
 

Tru11

Practice Squad
A
Who the Ravens hung 39 on.

Also in Clevelands case I was not aware that being 14th was the worst in the league. I guess 18 teams must really feel bad.

Only the texans gave up more points then cleveland....

That is #31 in the league.

No idea what that 14th is referring to.

Colts texans and Browns are only 3 teams who have given up more then 400 points on the season.
 

Inqui

Pro Bowler
Only the texans gave up more points then cleveland....

That is #31 in the league.

No idea what that 14th is referring to.

Colts texans and Browns are only 3 teams who have given up more then 400 points on the season.
That includes pick-sixes and the like (where the Browns are the second-worst team in the league). Though in opponent offensive points per game the figure I found had them at 28th, so still really not great.
 

Tru11

Practice Squad
That includes pick-sixes and the like (where the Browns are the second-worst team in the league). Though in opponent offensive points per game the figure I found had them at 28th, so still really not great.

some find that impressive for whatever reason....
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
A


Only the texans gave up more points then cleveland....

That is #31 in the league.

No idea what that 14th is referring to.

Colts texans and Browns are only 3 teams who have given up more then 400 points on the season.
Run defense I think.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
A


Only the texans gave up more points then cleveland....

That is #31 in the league.

No idea what that 14th is referring to.

Colts texans and Browns are only 3 teams who have given up more then 400 points on the season.

NFL defenses are ranked by yards allowed per game. That is the accepted stat used when saying a d is the 7th rated or13th best. Similarly the Ravems defense ranked 12th on the year but was 6th in points allowed.

There are a whole host of reasons for this but the point remains that is how they do it.

I get you could try and rationalize it by saying the defenses were bad but the Steelers weren't and Browns werent but the offense still looked great.
 

Tru11

Practice Squad
NFL defenses are ranked by yards allowed per game. That is the accepted stat used when saying a d is the 7th rated or13th best. Similarly the Ravems defense ranked 12th on the year but was 6th in points allowed.

There are a whole host of reasons for this but the point remains that is how they do it.

I get you could try and rationalize it by saying the defenses were bad but the Steelers weren't and Browns werent but the offense still looked great.

Games are decided by points and not yards.
Team with the most points win the game regardless of whether they had more yards or not.

The browns defense was among the worst in stopping other teams from scoring points.
Their offense was the worst in turning the ball over doing it in about 1 out of 5 drives.
Teams barely had to drive the entire field to score.

takeaway pick 6 and such the browns where still #28 in points allowed according to iniqui.
which is telling in how bad they where.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
Games are decided by points and not yards.
Team with the most points win the game regardless of whether they had more yards or not.

The browns defense was among the worst in stopping other teams from scoring points.
Their offense was the worst in turning the ball over doing it in about 1 out of 5 drives.
Teams barely had to drive the entire field to score.

takeaway pick 6 and such the browns where still #28 in points allowed according to iniqui.
which is telling in how bad they where.

No it isn't because a pick that sets up the opposing offense at the 25 still will lead to points.

The reason yards is used as a measuring stick is it takes that element away and focuses purely on how good you are at stopping drives
 
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