The 2022 Offseason Thread

[rmcjacket23]

Making a wr good is up to the wr and playcaller.. wr can make qbs look better than theyre though but i dnt think its much a qb can for a wr if he cant catch nor get open

QBs can throw them open. Aaron Rodgers has been making a career out of it for like a decade now.
Dropped passes they can't do anything about, but even guys who drop balls a lot don't drop them nearly at the frequency that fans do.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Even Tom Brady has struggled when given an awful WR group. Look at his last couple years with the Patriots. And I'd argue every one of those other positions have more depth than WR (other than QB). Literally, our best WR had played half a season and has a lot more yards than any of the others. Hell, in half a season he got twice as many yards as Duv has gotten in any whole season. There's plenty of reason to have zero faith in Duv and WRs that were healthy scratches at times during last season.

If you don't have faith in them, why did you draft them and why are they still on the team?
I would certainly argue against lack of depth elsewhere. The depth in every position I mentioned is no more or less proven than WR is.
It's still just one football. Still a run-heavy offense. Still going to run multiple TE sets. Lamar still has limitations as a passer.
These things are still all true.

Everybody can talk about playoffs all they want. How about trying to get there first? I must have been overseas when the Ravens played in the playoffs last year, because I didn't see it. And neither did anybody else, because it didn't happen. If you're building your roster to compete against teams you don't know that you'll ever play in the postseason, then you're doing a shitty job as a roster builder and it'll bite you in the ass big time.

 

[ChainedBird]

I think Chris Moore would easily be WR2 if he was still around. Boykin would possibly beat out Duv for that spot as well.

I hope I'm wrong, but Ravens' fans have a long history of saying such and such WR just needs a chance and they'll be good. It has very rarely worked out.

If I was gonna bet on anyone stepping up it'd be Proche, but I'm not gonna get hyped for another unknown WR until they actually do something.

I think I just straight up disagree that Chris Moore is a viable WR2 (or anything really beyond depth/special teams) or that Boykin > Duvernay/Proche.

But, for me, the main point is that WR is a relatively low impact position on our offense. If the young WRs pan out then great, if not then it's no big loss. We've got bigger fish to fry and I'd much rather focus any pennies we have left after signing the rookies on Houston and/or another CB

 

[RaineV1]

I think I just straight up disagree that Chris Moore is a viable WR2 (or anything really beyond depth/special teams) or that Boykin > Duvernay/Proche.

But, for me, the main point is that WR is a relatively low impact position on our offense. If the young WRs pan out then great, if not then it's no big loss. We've got bigger fish to fry and I'd much rather focus any pennies we have left after signing the rookies on Houston and/or another CB

People downplay WR every off-season, and then like clock work in big games our pass offense becomes non-existent because the one good one gets double teamed and no one else can beat single coverage.

This cycle has been happening for over a decade.

 

[rmcjacket23]

People downplay WR every off-season, and then like clock work in big games our pass offense becomes non-existent because the one good one gets double teamed and no one else can beat single coverage.

This cycle has been happening for over a decade.

Well so has the cycle of our running game not being effective in big games, receivers dropping passes in big games, the QB making mistakes in big games, and the defense not performing at a high enough level.
Basically describes the Tennessee and Buffalo losses to a T.
I've yet to see a compelling argument that adding a "#1 WR" would have changed the outcome of either of those losses.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Well so has the cycle of our running game not being effective in big games, receivers dropping passes in big games, the QB making mistakes in big games, and the defense not performing at a high enough level.
Basically describes the Tennessee and Buffalo losses to a T.
I've yet to see a compelling argument that adding a "#1 WR" would have changed the outcome of either of those losses.

A WR1 could’ve made a massive difference against the titans, if Seth Roberts doesn’t drop that guaranteed first down/chunk play and potentially TD then that game could have went completely different, that was the play that sent the game spiraling, if roberts catches it and outruns the defenders already blown angles then that becomes a close game fairly early on, but he dropped it, we punted, the titans scored shortly after, and now we’re spiraling trying to catch up.

The bills loss, WR was absolutely not the problem. Last year WR/TE was the strength of the team and we missed the playoffs.

I agree that WR1 is not a need. A competent WR2 is all that’s needed, not a world beater, so if a starter gets hurt we have our depth guys as WR2 rather than 1, if duvernay or proche is WR1 in case of Bateman getting injured it’s not gonna work. And I get that you can say the same about every position, but it is what it is, you need some kind of depth at these high value positions and we don’t have it.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

People downplay WR every off-season, and then like clock work in big games our pass offense becomes non-existent because the one good one gets double teamed and no one else can beat single coverage.

This cycle has been happening for over a decade.

I agree.

But a decade ago the model we had was a move the chains WR... a possession guy. Derrick Mason and all the guys after him. That was, imo, the NE model we were following. Some would say it was all Brady, but NE only really had that one year with Randy Moss where they were much of a downfield threat. What they had were guys that had good hands and could catch in small spaces and get YAC. Brady shined in getting it there, but the WR's could CATCH.

We drafted Perriman with a first round pick that was supposed to change everything. What was the knock against him? His hands were unreliable. We have pretty consistently gone with guys that have good ball skills since. The fact that we have about 4 guys that can catch and a couple that showed they can last year in Duv and Proche makes me optimistic that we will be OK. But this is also why Landry would have been such a great get.

But you're right, the first time the running game stalls and the TE's aren't getting it done, people will be going right back to the "why did we trade Hollywood?" and "Our WR's need to do a better job of getting open."

 

[Michael M.]

Well so has the cycle of our running game not being effective in big games, receivers dropping passes in big games, the QB making mistakes in big games, and the defense not performing at a high enough level.
Basically describes the Tennessee and Buffalo losses to a T.
I've yet to see a compelling argument that adding a "#1 WR" would have changed the outcome of either of those losses.

I think you need them all. A #1WR won't be dropping those passes so a QB has more confidence to throw instead of scanning the field and then deciding to run instead.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think you need them all. A #1WR won't be dropping those passes so a QB has more confidence to throw instead of scanning the field and then deciding to run instead.

I mean... #1 WR's drop passes all the time.
JaMarr Chase had the #2 drop rate in the league last year. Deebo Samuel was #4. AJ Brown was top 10.
There's a "who's who" of names that, on average, are going to drop about one out of every 20-25 targets.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I agree.

But a decade ago the model we had was a move the chains WR... a possession guy. Derrick Mason and all the guys after him. That was, imo, the NE model we were following. Some would say it was all Brady, but NE only really had that one year with Randy Moss where they were much of a downfield threat. What they had were guys that had good hands and could catch in small spaces and get YAC. Brady shined in getting it there, but the WR's could CATCH.

We drafted Perriman with a first round pick that was supposed to change everything. What was the knock against him? His hands were unreliable. We have pretty consistently gone with guys that have good ball skills since. The fact that we have about 4 guys that can catch and a couple that showed they can last year in Duv and Proche makes me optimistic that we will be OK. But this is also why Landry would have been such a great get.

But you're right, the first time the running game stalls and the TE's aren't getting it done, people will be going right back to the "why did we trade Hollywood?" and "Our WR's need to do a better job of getting open."

And people can play that game all day long.
And I'll be on the flip side.
The first time we trade for Metcalf, and we posts a 3/35 line in a blowout win, or even in a loss, I'll be the one asking the question "what kind of investment did we just make".

 

[rmcjacket23]

A WR1 could’ve made a massive difference against the titans, if Seth Roberts doesn’t drop that guaranteed first down/chunk play and potentially TD then that game could have went completely different, that was the play that sent the game spiraling, if roberts catches it and outruns the defenders already blown angles then that becomes a close game fairly early on, but he dropped it, we punted, the titans scored shortly after, and now we’re spiraling trying to catch up.

The bills loss, WR was absolutely not the problem. Last year WR/TE was the strength of the team and we missed the playoffs.

I agree that WR1 is not a need. A competent WR2 is all that’s needed, not a world beater, so if a starter gets hurt we have our depth guys as WR2 rather than 1, if duvernay or proche is WR1 in case of Bateman getting injured it’s not gonna work. And I get that you can say the same about every position, but it is what it is, you need some kind of depth at these high value positions and we don’t have it.

So basically in the Titans game, we didn't need a WR1 (who also drop passes all the time), we just needed literally any WR to execute the basic fundamentals of the position, i.e. catch the ball and run with it.

 

[RaineV1]

So basically in the Titans game, we didn't need a WR1 (who also drop passes all the time), we just needed literally any WR to execute the basic fundamentals of the position, i.e. catch the ball and run with it.

Yeah, and right now only one WR on our team has shown he can do that.

You keep bringing up a WR1, but that isn't what I'm saying. I just want another guy that has genuine promise or shown he can actually play an an NFL level. Not someone that has yet to pass 300 yards receiving in a season. Not people that have been healthy scratches.

I'm not asking for the second coming of Calvin Johnson. Get another guy on the level of Mason. Just someone that has shown something to make us think they can be reliable.

 

[RavensMania]

And people can play that game all day long.
And I'll be on the flip side.
The first time we trade for Metcalf, and we posts a 3/35 line in a blowout win, or even in a loss, I'll be the one asking the question "what kind of investment did we just make".

teams lose with #1 WRs all the time. I feel all we need are 2 or 3 #2 WRs and some good WR3s. A WR1 isn't as important as many make them out to be. A team just needs to compensate somewhere else on the team, ie defense etc...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

So basically in the Titans game, we didn't need a WR1 (who also drop passes all the time), we just needed literally any WR to execute the basic fundamentals of the position, i.e. catch the ball and run with it.

Yes, which is what I’m suggesting over a WR1 lol

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah, and right now only one WR on our team has shown he can do that.

You keep bringing up a WR1, but that isn't what I'm saying. I just want another guy that has genuine promise or shown he can actually play an an NFL level. Not someone that has yet to pass 300 yards receiving in a season. Not people that have been healthy scratches.

I'm not asking for the second coming of Calvin Johnson. Get another guy on the level of Mason. Just someone that has shown something to make us think they can be reliable.

OK. I just don't see any of those players available. They don't grow on trees, and 32 NFL teams want what you describe.
Best chance to get that is in the 2023 draft or in FA. And the draft, by definition, is just a bunch of unproven players.
End of day, we're not going to be in a position to just pluck reliable veterans out of FA for the foreseeable future. Will happen sometimes, but your WR room will never grow with that logic. It'll just be a room full of rotational players who you never know if they'll be there year in and year out.

 

[Deebo813]

OK. I just don't see any of those players available. They don't grow on trees, and 32 NFL teams want what you describe.
Best chance to get that is in the 2023 draft or in FA. And the draft, by definition, is just a bunch of unproven players.
End of day, we're not going to be in a position to just pluck reliable veterans out of FA for the foreseeable future. Will happen sometimes, but your WR room will never grow with that logic. It'll just be a room full of rotational players who you never know if they'll be there year in and year out.

Thats exactly how its been for us with wrs though lol..

 

[rmcjacket23]

Thats exactly how its been for us with wrs though lol..

Sure, until recently, when we emphasized drafting guys like Hollywood and Bateman. When we actually started taking WRs before the third round.
Its a highly ironic time. The entire Flacco era (and arguably before that) all every Ravens fan ever complained about was how we didn't draft and develop WR's. Now that we're trying to do that (and somewhat successfully have), everybody wants a veteran with experience or wants to pay top dollar for somebody that another team has developed.

 

[Deebo813]

Well so has the cycle of our running game not being effective in big games, receivers dropping passes in big games, the QB making mistakes in big games, and the defense not performing at a high enough level.
Basically describes the Tennessee and Buffalo losses to a T.
I've yet to see a compelling argument that adding a "#1 WR" would have changed the outcome of either of those losses.

Naw we dnt need a #1 wr just not unprovens wrs as our #2 and #3….you also cant argue that a wr would have changed those loses cause it didnt happen. Its too much involved. #1 wr takes pressure off the other guys, teams game plan for #1 wrs, they get doubled team, they make catches when qbs fuck up throws,qbs often trust them more, they get open more…. None of that matter though cause we didnt have a #1 wr and even if we did, its no telling how the out come wouldve been…

Me, i never cared for #1 wrs.. give me 3 decent guys who compliment each other.. vertical threat, possession guy and or a decent route runner…

 

[Deebo813]

Sure, until recently, when we emphasized drafting guys like Hollywood and Bateman. When we actually started taking WRs before the third round.
Its a highly ironic time. The entire Flacco era (and arguably before that) all every Ravens fan ever complained about was how we didn't draft and develop WR's. Now that we're trying to do that (and somewhat successfully have), everybody wants a veteran with experience or wants to pay top dollar for somebody that another team has developed.

We actually need a veteran with experience though, thats just how it works in some situations.. just like lamar , wrs have limitations and we can see that with duv and proche so thats why people are asking for another wr

 

[rmcjacket23]

We actually need a veteran with experience though, thats just how it works in some situations.. just like lamar , wrs have limitations and we can see that with duv and proche so thats why people are asking for another wr

Cool. Like I said.... said players don't seem to be available to get. Like where you getting one from?