The 2022 Offseason Thread

[rmcjacket23]

Does it seem like Brandon Stephens and Pepe are competing for the primary Nickle CB spot or are both of them largely also competing with a S like Hamilton?

Seems like our defense might be an ever changing dynamic cluster fuck of different possibilities with rotations possible everywhere except ILB.

macdonald's already talked about not locking guys into specific roles yet as they figure out who fits where and does what best in the defence right now

stephens is gonna play - i think a lot of those snaps will come at corner and nickel but you might see him rotate into the deep

i think damarion's another guy who probably fits into more of a positionless kind of spot than as a nickel

with the safety overhaul, if JAD and Pepe both turn into something then this secondary is stacked - and if they come far enough along i think kyle fuller's gonna struggle to get snaps because both of these guys are gonna play special teams

Well I look at it this way...
I'd be highly surprised if Hamilton or Williams come off the field barely ever. Maybe a snap or two a game, at most. The investments in both are just so big, and they're viewed as playmakers.
Realistically, when healthy, Marlon and Peters aren't coming off the field either. Maybe they rotate a little more earlier just to get back into speed of things, but I wouldn't even bank on that.

I don't think they're just going to mothball Clark either. He's not going to be a 60 snap a game guy, but I think he'll still play plenty if he's here.

I agree they might not be "position specific", but lets face it... Marlon and Peters are not going to play Safety, and I really don't see Williams in press coverage on an outside Corner that often. Maybe Hamilton, but I wouldn't even bet on that.

So given that, barring injury, I think Stephens is playing mostly corner, and he'll rotate with Fuller and maybe others. Obviously things can change with injury, but I think you'll see Stephens a lot more in coverage than you will as a freelancing or even box Safety.

 

[UPennChem]

macdonald's already talked about not locking guys into specific roles yet as they figure out who fits where and does what best in the defence right now

stephens is gonna play - i think a lot of those snaps will come at corner and nickel but you might see him rotate into the deep

i think damarion's another guy who probably fits into more of a positionless kind of spot than as a nickel

with the safety overhaul, if JAD and Pepe both turn into something then this secondary is stacked - and if they come far enough along i think kyle fuller's gonna struggle to get snaps because both of these guys are gonna play special teams

Lol I had already forgot about Fuller. Wow the secondary is rich with guys

 

[UPennChem]

Well I look at it this way...
I'd be highly surprised if Hamilton or Williams come off the field barely ever. Maybe a snap or two a game, at most. The investments in both are just so big, and they're viewed as playmakers.
Realistically, when healthy, Marlon and Peters aren't coming off the field either. Maybe they rotate a little more earlier just to get back into speed of things, but I wouldn't even bank on that.

I don't think they're just going to mothball Clark either. He's not going to be a 60 snap a game guy, but I think he'll still play plenty if he's here.

I agree they might not be "position specific", but lets face it... Marlon and Peters are not going to play Safety, and I really don't see Williams in press coverage on an outside Corner that often. Maybe Hamilton, but I wouldn't even bet on that.

So given that, barring injury, I think Stephens is playing mostly corner, and he'll rotate with Fuller and maybe others. Obviously things can change with injury, but I think you'll see Stephens a lot more in coverage than you will as a freelancing or even box Safety.

Totally agree. But if Marlon, Peters, Williams, and Hamilton are never coming off the field (which makes sense), then in nickel you've got Chuck, Fuller, Stephens, and Pepe all competing for a spot. In dime you can get one more out there too. I guess my point is given that we will play a lot of nickel, is one of those guys gonna take a strong hold or do we think it's going to be extremely dynamic?

 

[rmcjacket23]

Totally agree. But if Marlon, Peters, Williams, and Hamilton are never coming off the field (which makes sense), then in nickel you've got Chuck, Fuller, Stephens, and Pepe all competing for a spot. In dime you can get one more out there too. I guess my point is given that we will play a lot of nickel, is one of those guys gonna take a strong hold or do we think it's going to be extremely dynamic?

Dynamic. He who plays best plays more, those that don't, won't.
Injuries will probably force their hand one way or another. Unreasonable to think the whole group will always be healthy.

 

[UPennChem]

Dynamic. He who plays best plays more, those that don't, won't.
Injuries will probably force their hand one way or another. Unreasonable to think the whole group will always be healthy.

For sure. They certainly won't always be healthy. So with that being said I'm glad we have depth at the start of the season. Should be a strong defense if we can get any pass rush.

 

[rossihunter2]

Who else besides Tony Jefferson can we do the gentleman’s agreement to cut and resign after we squeeze players like Ojabo on to the initial 53, then on to IR?

You have to have 5 years to not be subjected to waivers right?

TJ, Kyle Fuller, Josh Bynes, and Mike Davis.

ojabo will start on pup - doesnt need to be on the active roster unless we activate him before the season

 

[rossihunter2]

Well I look at it this way...
I'd be highly surprised if Hamilton or Williams come off the field barely ever. Maybe a snap or two a game, at most. The investments in both are just so big, and they're viewed as playmakers.
Realistically, when healthy, Marlon and Peters aren't coming off the field either. Maybe they rotate a little more earlier just to get back into speed of things, but I wouldn't even bank on that.

I don't think they're just going to mothball Clark either. He's not going to be a 60 snap a game guy, but I think he'll still play plenty if he's here.

I agree they might not be "position specific", but lets face it... Marlon and Peters are not going to play Safety, and I really don't see Williams in press coverage on an outside Corner that often. Maybe Hamilton, but I wouldn't even bet on that.

So given that, barring injury, I think Stephens is playing mostly corner, and he'll rotate with Fuller and maybe others. Obviously things can change with injury, but I think you'll see Stephens a lot more in coverage than you will as a freelancing or even box Safety.

my point is more that the rigid position of a player in a secondary with a coordinator who's stated aim is to present different disguises and looks pre-snap and post-snap and a front office who for years have touted the importance of being able to play positionless football means that these guys will be playing in all sorts of spots

marlon and peters arent safeties, but they will 100% be asked to drop into the deep middle on some snaps especially when we play zone or match coverage - and when we start talking about nickel corners in underneath zones, we're not talking about fundamentally that much of a different position to a strong safety

these guys will play in different roles, in different alignments, in different coverages - you're right that we likely won't see williams or hamilton in press but we will likely see both play nickel at some points and we may even see hamilton down at the line at dimebacker like chuck

everything they do is going to be snap-to-snap specific, putting guys in matchups based on formation, alignment and personnel

 

[rossihunter2]

Totally agree. But if Marlon, Peters, Williams, and Hamilton are never coming off the field (which makes sense), then in nickel you've got Chuck, Fuller, Stephens, and Pepe all competing for a spot. In dime you can get one more out there too. I guess my point is given that we will play a lot of nickel, is one of those guys gonna take a strong hold or do we think it's going to be extremely dynamic?

matchup (and form) specific

 

[RavensMania]

For sure. They certainly won't always be healthy. So with that being said I'm glad we have depth at the start of the season. Should be a strong defense if we can get any pass rush.

shhhhh

 

[ChainedBird]

I'm seeing a huge wave of people talking about how the salary cap is fake/can be easily bypassed/is no longer a limiting factor, but every cap manipulation strategy I've looked into has effectively just been a way to push the cap hit into a future year's cap space, not evade it.

Am I missing something, is there a way to completely bypass the cap or is this just a bunch of people on Mount Stupid (Dunning-Kruger effect)?

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm seeing a huge wave of people talking about how the salary cap is fake/can be easily bypassed/is no longer a limiting factor, but every cap manipulation strategy I've looked into has effectively just been a way to push the cap hit into a future year's cap space, not evade it.

Am I missing something, is there a way to completely bypass the cap or is this just a bunch of people on Mount Stupid (Dunning-Kruger effect)?

it's a bet that the cap is going to continuously go up every year (which it most likely will) and that proration rules don't change i.e. that you can always prorate guys to fit under the cap

but it's very clear from some of the guys who've been available the last couple of years that the cap isnt fake - but it is manipulable

there's nothing stopping owners from consistently going cash-over-cap because they can always prorate into the future for 5 years and the cap is always increasing

there will be a point at which that becomes unfeasible to continue that way but it only probably takes 1 significant cash-over-cap year to reset at that point

as long as your owner is rich enough to cut 60m cheques multiple times a year then this is somewhat sustainable as long as you draft well and don't get screwed by poor play out of your most expensive guys - it's not a new concept and the ravens have been prorating and backloading deals for years and only got screwed because of a bunch of key guys didnt pan out for various reasons - the only mechanism the ravens could use but dont (right now) is void years

 

[ChainedBird]

it's a bet that the cap is going to continuously go up every year (which it most likely will) and that proration rules don't change i.e. that you can always prorate guys to fit under the cap

but it's very clear from some of the guys who've been available the last couple of years that the cap isnt fake - but it is manipulable

there's nothing stopping owners from consistently going cash-over-cap because they can always prorate into the future for 5 years and the cap is always increasing

there will be a point at which that becomes unfeasible to continue that way but it only probably takes 1 significant cash-over-cap year to reset at that point

as long as your owner is rich enough to cut 60m cheques multiple times a year then this is somewhat sustainable as long as you draft well and don't get screwed by poor play out of your most expensive guys - it's not a new concept and the ravens have been prorating and backloading deals for years and only got screwed because of a bunch of key guys didnt pan out for various reasons - the only mechanism the ravens could use but dont (right now) is void years

Thanks for the sanity check, that matches my understanding. Good to hear I haven't missed some magic loophole!

 

[rossihunter2]

Thanks for the sanity check, that matches my understanding. Good to hear I haven't missed some magic loophole!

when people talk about it like there's a loophole or that it's fake, they're just outing themselves as having never understood how the cap worked in the first place

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'm seeing a huge wave of people talking about how the salary cap is fake/can be easily bypassed/is no longer a limiting factor, but every cap manipulation strategy I've looked into has effectively just been a way to push the cap hit into a future year's cap space, not evade it.

Am I missing something, is there a way to completely bypass the cap or is this just a bunch of people on Mount Stupid (Dunning-Kruger effect)?

Basically the strategy many are adopting essentially amounts to defer, defer, defer. Defer cap for as long as possible. There's some downside to it, but the long term analysis would tell you that you're deferring a fixed amount for a longer, variable time period, i.e. a fixed dead money hit on a largely perpetually increasing cap.

Basically the view point used to be that dead money can cripple a team's ability to put a good product on the field. Historically, that hasn't been true anyway, but I think many NFL GM's are just now realizing that dead money really isn't a big deal at all. It's not super difficult to navigate around, provided you're getting high end production from high end players and you can draft well.

The latter two parts aren't layups obviously, but they're also the backbone of any successful team, regardless of lots of dead money or not.

 

[RaineV1]

I'm seeing a huge wave of people talking about how the salary cap is fake/can be easily bypassed/is no longer a limiting factor, but every cap manipulation strategy I've looked into has effectively just been a way to push the cap hit into a future year's cap space, not evade it.

Am I missing something, is there a way to completely bypass the cap or is this just a bunch of people on Mount Stupid (Dunning-Kruger effect)?

I think the biggest thing is that you can always find some way to get your top stars signed, but it can lead to utterly horrible depth, and a reliance for every single draft pick to pan out. Those teams can be a single injury away from total collapse.

 

[redrum52]

I think the biggest thing is that you can always find some way to get your top stars signed, but it can lead to utterly horrible depth, and a reliance for every single draft pick to pan out. Those teams can be a single injury away from total collapse.

If Donald goes down. How far do you see the Rams going?

 

[RaineV1]

If Donald goes down. How far do you see the Rams going?

They would definitely still be competitive, but their pass rush would largely vanish, and it would push their DBs to their limit covering that long. Just look at the Ravens recent history for a team with a good secondary but weak pass rush (so many converted third downs and let downs at the end of big games). They would have a really hard time staying ahead of the Cards and 49ers (something they barely did with Donald), and would probably be one and done as a wildcard team. If their offense has any issues after losing Donald they could be the odd team out, just missing the playoffs in a close race.

 

[allblackraven]

Jesus. From ESPN:

Philadelphia Eagles rookie wide receiver Devon Allen won the 110-meter hurdles at the USATF NYC Grand Prix on Sunday, finishing with a time of 12.84 seconds -- the third-fastest time in history.

He was just four-hundredths of a second off the world record (12.80), set by Aries Merritt in 2012 at a Diamond League event in Brussels, Belgium.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Jesus. From ESPN:

Oh wow!

 

[allblackraven]

lmao