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The Movie Thread
- Thread starter usmccharles
- Start date
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
He gave ZERO fucks.
SepticeyePoe
Hall of Famer
Damn, was Endgame emotional. This was the first movie that I've teared up during. 3 times. When Nat died, when everyone came back at the big battle, and when Tony died. I wasn't too emotionally attached to Black Widow, but it hurt seeing one of the original 6 die. And then the scene where everyone comes back was just so cool that it kinda got to me. Especially with the audience cheering as everyone showed up.
And then Iron Man... goddamn. It's been a couple hours since I got out of the theater, and I still can't believe that Tony is gone. It's just not gonna be the same without him.
I really thought that Cap was gonna die. I'm glad he didn't, and I like how they gave him the life he missed out on. One thing that I do wonder is why Cap actually became old. Bucky is roughly the same age as him, and he got a version of the serum too, right? He's barely aged at all. So why should Cap have aged like that? I don't know, doesn't ruin the movie for me, but it is something I'm wondering.
And then Iron Man... goddamn. It's been a couple hours since I got out of the theater, and I still can't believe that Tony is gone. It's just not gonna be the same without him.
I really thought that Cap was gonna die. I'm glad he didn't, and I like how they gave him the life he missed out on. One thing that I do wonder is why Cap actually became old. Bucky is roughly the same age as him, and he got a version of the serum too, right? He's barely aged at all. So why should Cap have aged like that? I don't know, doesn't ruin the movie for me, but it is something I'm wondering.
Non-spoiler: I really liked it. Definitely glad it wasn't spoiled for me.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
1. They did Thor DIRTY. Not just getting him fat, that's not my issue. Thor would NEVER abandon his kingdom. That's a dissappointing conclusion to the arc set up in the previous two movies.
2. Why is Iron Man able to fight Thanos on his own with the gauntlet, and Thor gets an easy killshot on his own, but when Cap, Thor, and Iron man all fight Thanos they get their asses handed to them?
3. I'm just gonna say this, Brie Larson is a good fit for captain marvel. She's devoid of any personality in the comics too. I'm glad she was used sparingly in the movie.
4. Fucking hell the time travel shit. They never elaborate as to whether Tony kills everyone at the end, or sends them back to their own time, because if Tony kills 2014 Thanos and his army... The timeline is fucked beyond repair. This isn't something you can just glance over, no matter how awesome the rest of it is. None of any of this shit should've happened. At all. If 2014 Thanos isn't present, and 2014 Nebula is dead, then both Guardians movies don't happen, they never form. Sure, the stones themselves remain in the same place and all other MCU films remain relatively unaffected after Avengers I. But that just erases all of the events of Avengers Infinity War, because Thanos can't retrieve any of the stones because he's not alive, nor can he sacrifice Gamora because well. He's not alive to kill anyone. Nor would Gamora ever become a Guardian. Also, all the Asguardians killed by Thanos at the start of the last movie should be alive. Which means Tony Stark and Natasha should... be alive. And they gave those two such a good ending.
Obviously #4 is a non-issue if Iron Man just sends them back in time and wipes all of Thanos' army's memories, as well as restoring 2014 Nebula. Sure, Gamora would be a net casualty, but hey, it's a tragic movie already.
It's literally a simple explanation that would have taken two seconds of exposition, and they didn't bother. It's baffling for a movie that otherwise pays SUCH good attention to detail.
5. Captain America also creates a fucking paradox by choosing to remain in the past. Him being present during Agent Carter's time period changes things in the past, no matter how you try to ignore it. History changes.
2. Why is Iron Man able to fight Thanos on his own with the gauntlet, and Thor gets an easy killshot on his own, but when Cap, Thor, and Iron man all fight Thanos they get their asses handed to them?
3. I'm just gonna say this, Brie Larson is a good fit for captain marvel. She's devoid of any personality in the comics too. I'm glad she was used sparingly in the movie.
4. Fucking hell the time travel shit. They never elaborate as to whether Tony kills everyone at the end, or sends them back to their own time, because if Tony kills 2014 Thanos and his army... The timeline is fucked beyond repair. This isn't something you can just glance over, no matter how awesome the rest of it is. None of any of this shit should've happened. At all. If 2014 Thanos isn't present, and 2014 Nebula is dead, then both Guardians movies don't happen, they never form. Sure, the stones themselves remain in the same place and all other MCU films remain relatively unaffected after Avengers I. But that just erases all of the events of Avengers Infinity War, because Thanos can't retrieve any of the stones because he's not alive, nor can he sacrifice Gamora because well. He's not alive to kill anyone. Nor would Gamora ever become a Guardian. Also, all the Asguardians killed by Thanos at the start of the last movie should be alive. Which means Tony Stark and Natasha should... be alive. And they gave those two such a good ending.
Obviously #4 is a non-issue if Iron Man just sends them back in time and wipes all of Thanos' army's memories, as well as restoring 2014 Nebula. Sure, Gamora would be a net casualty, but hey, it's a tragic movie already.
It's literally a simple explanation that would have taken two seconds of exposition, and they didn't bother. It's baffling for a movie that otherwise pays SUCH good attention to detail.
5. Captain America also creates a fucking paradox by choosing to remain in the past. Him being present during Agent Carter's time period changes things in the past, no matter how you try to ignore it. History changes.
I decided to see Endgame a second time at a midnight screening event. So I'm going to leave my thoughts here. I loved it before, it's a lot better on a rewatch.
It's easily... EASILY the best MCU movie out there, and is now one of my favorite films of all time. Other than The Dark Knigjht and Logan, which aren't true comic book movies, this is the greatest comic book movie of all time, and it's one that probably never gets topped.
That said... There are plot holes, but I cover those above.
To be fair the movie explains its internal logic for time travel and how it works so the 4th point doesn’t matter - basically because it has to happen for them to invent time travel they don’t change anything in the future by changing the past - the only thing that happens is that the reality they affected diverges from their own one
SepticeyePoe
Hall of Famer
You're telling me Back to the Future is horseshit?
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Except for the fact that Thanos and his army + Nebula and Gamora went INTO the future instead of going back in time. Which means the 2014 future for Thanos changes to death, which causes the timeline to get fucked once again. Professor Hulk's explanation actually makes sense for the past, but since Thanos has now been permenantely displaced, the timeline is screwed. Iron Man would have HAD to send them back to where they all came from otherwise, regardless of the stones returning to their original times. Other sources agree with me too, the in-movie explanation makes no sense for a jump to the future. Because if Thanos jumps to the future, then the future becomes his present, which means if he dies, then by that logic he cannot have been present to previously collect the infinity stones, therefore none of the movies past the First Avengers movie ever happen. No matter what way you put it, the timeline is fucked, and there's not an argument against it.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Okay, I was also thinking about it. Thanos had destroyed the stones in modern time, which were described as the things that was essential of keeping the timeline intact by the ancient one.... So if the stones are removed, the timeline once again becomes FUCKED. So if that's the case, then Thanos would've accidentally destroyed the universe anyways.
The movie is great, but man it's fucked.
The movie is great, but man it's fucked.
it still works - because each period of time within the film is basically separate - all time is running concurrently basically and whenever you affect time in the past you're changing a different reality - so in their timeline everything has still happened the way it did but in that now separated alternative reality in the past there is a universe with no thanos or his henchmen - at least that's how i read it - to me as long as the film satisfies its own internal logic i dont mind - as long as it doesnt break that internal world logic and i think endgame probably does well enough
i think the scene with the ancient one is pretty important in the way they basically create different realities/alternative universes for every moment of time
the one moment that breaks that whole idea of time travel is Cap being there after they zap him back and him staying in that reality
i think the scene with the ancient one is pretty important in the way they basically create different realities/alternative universes for every moment of time
the one moment that breaks that whole idea of time travel is Cap being there after they zap him back and him staying in that reality
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Yea... the part that didn't seem like it would work to me is Cap going back and staying. Everything else I just assumed was multiverse theory. Each trip creates another "timeline."
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Except the internal "logic" with Thanos jumping forward is inherently illogical if he and Nebula died. It can't be an alternate timeline either because if Thanos jumps into the future and dies, then everything should be default be undone. The only way it actually makes any sense is if instead of Killing Thanos, Tony sends all of them back in time with their memories erased, along with restoring the dead(nebula and Thanos' forces). Which is honestly how I chose to interpret this. The sacrifice would be worth it because Thanos would be stopped once and for all. Thanos is dead in 2023 anyways, and everyone is restored, and Thanos from 2014 can't get the stones. And because two of the stones are te time and mind stones, Tony would be able to do that.
If you look at it like that.. The movie practically has no plot holes.
Also with regards to Cap, he could live under an alias in the past and technically the laws of time travel could have deemed him there, but out of the picture. Especially since he's not really revived until 2011, so back in the 1950s-2010, he could live quietly and under an alias. That said, I hate it for his character, Cap would never abandon his post and would ruin his message of "move on". Also he has canonically hooked up with his niece now.
If you look at it like that.. The movie practically has no plot holes.
Also with regards to Cap, he could live under an alias in the past and technically the laws of time travel could have deemed him there, but out of the picture. Especially since he's not really revived until 2011, so back in the 1950s-2010, he could live quietly and under an alias. That said, I hate it for his character, Cap would never abandon his post and would ruin his message of "move on". Also he has canonically hooked up with his niece now.
yeah that was my thought too - and the reason no timelines had diverged and were following identical paths was because time travel hadnt been invented yet - but yeah cap reappearing breaks that theory
you're still thinking of time travel using some of the fundamentals of the internal logic of movies like back to the future though
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
No, not really. It's just logical. I agree with professor hulk's logic, but temporal displacement is not a theory exclusive to film, and if you really want to go there, Cap's temporal displacement you disagree with does nothing but support my argument.. Thanos' would be temporal displacement. Besides, if the Avengers are now living in an alternate timeline, which is actually how it works now, it has officially made the rest of the universe fucking meaningless
52520Andrew
Pro Bowler
You'd love DBZ lol, Cell comes from an alternate future and dies in the present, not much different from Thanos except Cell comes from the future instead of the past
redrum52
Hall of Famer
@Lost_In_Translation I saw it again too. Before rewatching it I assumed the pacing might be a problem but it really wasn't. Not saying it's a better movie but seems to have to lulls that Infinity War did.
The first third is a bit slower than it needed to be but the pacing is really good for act 2 and act 3
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
I’d agree. It’s very good. And there isn’t an over saturation of humor like the last one
i dont mind humour but the russo brothers seem to have this habit of adding scenes to put humour in rather than what whedon and lots of the other directors of MCU films have done which is interwoven humour into the narrative and action within the film which means its naturally pacier (and funnier) - there's scenes in the 1st act that literally dont need to be in the film at all and add nothing except a joke which is not a reason to have a scene in a movie (especially one that is as long as this one) - a scene needs to have conflict for it to be interesting and needs to move the plot or there's no reason for the scene to exist and there's too many scenes in endgame early on that dont need to exist