The Offensive Line Thread

[redrum52]

There is no reason to add anything besides depth at this point. Most considered this season a wash offensively anyway, so what changed now? No point in wasting cap space down the line for a stopgap now. Wait it out until next year, then go all in on O.

 

[Sami84]

NFL off seasons are long and not fun for the fans. We've been irrelevant for 4 out of 5 years if we don't make the playoffs this year.
It's a win NOW league. We'll probably go all in on O next year and then have 8 players on IR during training camp again :/

 

[Truth]

If he's starting, expect the pocket to collapse as usual. Maybe even worse as he's gotten worse.

He definitely had his issues, but to be fair, he did improve down the stretch. He allowed 0 sacks, 0 hits and 10 pressures in his last 8 games. He's often scapegoated into what feels like all of our OL issues, but people forget that in the same exact span, Vladimir Ducasse allowed 2 sacks, 2 hits and 20 pressures in his 8 starts. Alex Lewis allowed 1 sack, 4 hits and 3 pressures in 55.2% less snaps in comparison. Granted that the latter two players were at guard, a position that allows more pressure on average, but to Zuttah's credit, his final half of the season ranked him in the top half of starting centers on a per snap basis in pass protection. Nothing to write home about, sure. But not the guaranteed turnstile that he's sometimes made out to be. If we're signing him as a starter, there's an obvious amount of risk, especially with the scheme change. But we could do worse as far as nabbing depth at this stage of the year. Plus we can either complain about the state of the OL or complain about the team looking to acquire the most sensible talent in a bone-dry market. It's difficult to do both.

 

[Adreme]

NFL off seasons are long and not fun for the fans. We've been irrelevant for 4 out of 5 years if we don't make the playoffs this year.
It's a win NOW league. We'll probably go all in on O next year and then have 8 players on IR during training camp again :/

Your use of irrelevant is borderline criminal. When you are in competition for the division title with 2 weeks left to go you are not irrelevant. If you are in the playoff hunt you are not irrelevant.

Unrelated 5 years ago they won the SB and 3 years ago they almost upset the Pats in the divisional round so both those years even by your crazy definition are relevant.

 

[redrum52]

He definitely had his issues, but to be fair, he did improve down the stretch. He allowed 0 sacks, 0 hits and 10 pressures in his last 8 games. He's often scapegoated into what feels like all of our OL issues, but people forget that in the same exact span, Vladimir Ducasse allowed 2 sacks, 2 hits and 20 pressures in his 8 starts. Alex Lewis allowed 1 sack, 4 hits and 3 pressures in 55.2% less snaps in comparison. Granted that the latter two players were at guard, a position that allows more pressure on average, but to Zuttah's credit, his final half of the season ranked him in the top half of starting centers on a per snap basis in pass protection. Nothing to write home about, sure. But not the guaranteed turnstile that he's sometimes made out to be. If we're signing him as a starter, there's an obvious amount of risk, especially with the scheme change. But we could do worse as far as nabbing depth at this stage of the year. Plus we can either complain about the state of the OL or complain about the team looking to acquire the most sensible talent in a bone-dry market. It's difficult to do both.

It's not the pressures, but the lack of presence. He didn't really do anything. Not awful, but not that good. People were more upset that we got no push with him, not really that he was giving up anything. Solid depth if you ask me, considering how things are going for us.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Having played the position, I can definitively tell you that you are out of your element. Two most important lifts for oline are squat and power clean. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Any trainer or coach worth their salt would tell you the same.

Strong legs are necessary but not 50 times. And some of the stronger players in games didn't have good squat and power clean numbers. So that debunks your claim that it's important. Next you can explain why geno Atkins can bench roughly what he can squat. And is an all pro. If the squat is soooo important. You say your an expert cuz u played in highschool. And you mention any personal trainer worth a grain of salt will say that?? I hired 2 Renowned PT's that were hired by many undrafted free agents coming out of Maryland Towson and UVA. That trained at my gym as well. And while important lifts it is far from the tell all for a player. As matter of fact it's not the first thing he put players to work on. Didn't u think I called Hurst lazy cuz I said he could get stronger and better?? But you shouted he is already one of the hardest workers. And don't forget to explain how Geno Atkins plays with such power with an emphasis on his upper bod. If any trainers worth a grain of salt will say squat and clean is tell all no ifs ands buts. Anybody that liked your post can feel free to chime in if needed

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I thought that Eluemunor had one of the more up-and-down performances between snaps among any of our players against Washington. There were several definitively positive blocks on display, and his performance was marginally more leveled out in the 3rd, but there were still significant lapses in his play throughout game. He was absolutely dusted by Nico Marley in the 3rd quarter for a sack (Link). He was largely responsible for the botched snap on the draw, his last play of the game (Link). He turned towards Josh Woodrum with seconds left on the play clock (The previous play having ended around 2:38), for which Woodrum repeatedly instructed him to face towards the play, the snap came, and Woodrum wasn't able to locate the ball in time. The latter is partly on Woodrum, but you have to assume that if Eluemunor didn't ask for assistance at the most inopportune of times, that the snap would've likely went off without a hitch. Granted that Eluemunor was able to occupy two defenders with the draw going to the opposite side, which is a plus, but he finished the play as a bystander as Taquan Mizzell reversed the field. As for the rest of the game, Jonathan Allen blew by him with ease in the 2nd (Link1, Link2). Technically he also notched a sack, but it was more of a pressure against Eluemunor that forced Mallet to step up, which allowed Allen to disengage and clean up underneath (Link). Although obviously the sizable asterisks is that it was Allen, a 1st rounder facing a 5th round, so it's almost to be expected. But it was disappointing to see the same issues lead to negative results, as he would attempt to lean into defenders at the point of contact, and fail to properly raise or extend his arms, which exposed him to either being swam over or having his hands chopped down. Now it wasn't all woeful as he did have several snaps where he looked like he could very well belong. However, there were also times when he outright looked lost and was simply looking for a defender to get his hands on. Overall, it wasn't the type of performance you'd hope for, even for a player at his stage of development who likely won't be forced into a starting role. That was my opinion.

Talk about MIT football division

 

[Truth]

It's not the pressures, but the lack of presence. He didn't really do anything. Not awful, but not that good. People were more upset that we got no push with him, not really that he was giving up anything. Solid depth if you ask me, considering how things are going for us.

Can't strongly disagree with any of this. I thought he was serviceable. Nothing to write home about, as I've said, but we didn't get much push from anyone on the interior in the running game other than Marshal Yanda, but there was only one name that was routinely mention in a negative light, and I found it to be somewhat strange. That's basically the only point I'm stressing at this point.

 

[balfan23]

sigh, this is going to be a shitty season. Picking up scrap for an O line

yeah that always works out.

Bryant McKinney LOL

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Bryant McKinney LOL

Wouldn't have a second super bowl withou him

 

[Sami84]

Bryant McKinney LOL

Osemele
Yanda
Birk
Oher( was better than howard is now)
Mckinnie when motivated was talented

trust me, we'd all die for a line like this in the forthcoming season.

 

[Deebo813]

we have to adapt and create schemes that will work this terrible oline.

 

[RavensMania]

 

[Deebo813]

Your use of irrelevant is borderline criminal. When you are in competition for the division title with 2 weeks left to go you are not irrelevant. If you are in the playoff hunt you are not irrelevant.

Unrelated 5 years ago they won the SB and 3 years ago they almost upset the Pats in the divisional round so both those years even by your crazy definition are relevant.

He was correct bro, we have been irrelevant. Wins are the only thing that matters and we have not been doing that

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I completely think Eluemunor will look like a different player by end of the preseason. Not saying ready to start. But he has the tools. And don't forget every level he played at he began as a very inexperienced lineman. And finished impressing everybody. Junior college he was a wrestling and rugby convert and it showed. By seasons end the top sec teams were trying to recruit him. At A&M he began his senior season very raw. Looking like an undrafted training camp invite. By seasons end the last couple games are he was looking like a totally different player and as much as a round2 pick. Ravens coaching staff needs to prioritize coaching him up. And getting him ready to start in the event he is thrown in the line of fire. He has shown he has the skills and learns and adjusts fast. So if coaching staff prioritized him he may be ready to play by seasons end.

 

[Adreme]

He was correct bro, we have been irrelevant. Wins are the only thing that matters and we have not been doing that

Relevant means the games you are playing matter. Ignoring the fact that his timetable was just outright wrong and he probably 3 of the last 4 years instead of 4 of the last 5 the only season where the Ravens were not playing meaningful games in December was 2015 when the entire team was basically on IR.

Plenty of teams are irrelevant every year come December (some like the Browns have been for almost a decade), but every year since Flacco arrived the Ravens have been in playoff contention come December. Sadly for one reason or another in the past 4 years 2 of them the Ravens just came up short 1 of them they almost upset NE without there best offensive and defensive player (not named Flacco) and the other was an injury filled nightmare.

I get that its fun to be a pessimist because you get to put on airs about being the "realist" and the "truth teller". However sometimes what you are being is merely negative, you are not telling some great truth that other people are too blind to see, you are just being negative for no good reason.

 

[jboy19]

we have to adapt and create schemes that will work this terrible oline.

Honestly if anybody can, it would probably be Roman. Hard to tell since his lines in SF and BUF were probably more talented than Baltimore's.

 

[Deebo813]

Relevant means the games you are playing matter. Ignoring the fact that his timetable was just outright wrong and he probably 3 of the last 4 years instead of 4 of the last 5 the only season where the Ravens were not playing meaningful games in December was 2015 when the entire team was basically on IR.

Plenty of teams are irrelevant every year come December (some like the Browns have been for almost a decade), but every year since Flacco arrived the Ravens have been in playoff contention come December. Sadly for one reason or another in the past 4 years 2 of them the Ravens just came up short 1 of them they almost upset NE without there best offensive and defensive player (not named Flacco) and the other was an injury filled nightmare.

I get that its fun to be a pessimist because you get to put on airs about being the "realist" and the "truth teller". However sometimes what you are being is merely negative, you are not telling some great truth that other people are too blind to see, you are just being negative for no good reason.

Well i guess we have different meanings then cause i want to win. I want to see us in playoffs. All those " meaningful" games dont matter cause we lost them and came up short. We came up short cause we werent good enough.

 

[Edgar]

I thought that Eluemunor had one of the more up-and-down performances between snaps among any of our players against Washington. There were several definitively positive blocks on display, and his performance was marginally more leveled out in the 3rd, but there were still significant lapses in his play throughout game. He was absolutely dusted by Nico Marley in the 3rd quarter for a sack (Link). He was largely responsible for the botched snap on the draw, his last play of the game (Link). He turned towards Josh Woodrum with seconds left on the play clock (The previous play having ended around 2:38), for which Woodrum repeatedly instructed him to face towards the play, the snap came, and Woodrum wasn't able to locate the ball in time. The latter is partly on Woodrum, but you have to assume that if Eluemunor didn't ask for assistance at the most inopportune of times, that the snap would've likely went off without a hitch. Granted that Eluemunor was able to occupy two defenders with the draw going to the opposite side, which is a plus, but he finished the play as a bystander as Taquan Mizzell reversed the field. As for the rest of the game, Jonathan Allen blew by him with ease in the 2nd (Link1, Link2). Technically he also notched a sack, but it was more of a pressure against Eluemenor that forced Mallet to step up, which allowed Allen to disengage and clean up underneath (Link). Although obviously the sizable asterisks is that it was Allen, a 1st rounder facing a 5th round, so it's almost to be expected. But it was disappointing to see the same issues lead to negative results, as he would attempt to lean into defenders at the point of contact, and fail to properly raise or extend his arms, which exposed him to either being swam over or having his hands chopped down. Now it wasn't all woeful as he did have several snaps where he looked like he could very well belong. However, there were also times when he outright looked lost and was simply looking for a defender to get his hands on. Overall, it wasn't the type of performance you'd hope for, even for a player at his stage of development who likely won't be forced into a starting role. That was my opinion.

It appears to me that Eleumenor held up pretty nicely in pass protection with regards to the Allen sack.

Allen does a nice job of not losing eyes on Mallett, disengages and makes a play.

The pressure, (to my eyes) comes specifically as a result of our left tackle being beaten inside and from Jensen, along with the right guard being pushed into mallets lap.

Another angle shows Eleumenor generally handling Allen one on one, (For this play).

 

[Boldnpurpblack]

I thought that Eluemunor had one of the more up-and-down performances between snaps among any of our players against Washington. There were several positive blocks on display, and his performance was marginally more leveled out in the 3rd, but there were still significant lapses in his play throughout game. He was absolutely dusted by Nico Marley in the 3rd quarter for a sack (Link). He was largely responsible for the botched snap on the draw, his last play of the game (Link). He turned towards Josh Woodrum with seconds left on the play clock (The previous play having ended around 2:38), for which Woodrum repeatedly instructed him to face towards the play, the snap came, and Woodrum wasn't able to locate the ball in time. The latter is partly on Woodrum, but you have to assume that if Eluemunor didn't ask for assistance at the most inopportune of times, that the snap would've likely went off without a hitch. Granted that Eluemunor was able to occupy two defenders with the draw going to the opposite side, but he finished the play as a bystander as Taquan Mizzell reversed the field. As for the rest of the game, Jonathan Allen blew by him with ease in the 2nd (Link1, Link2). Technically he also notched a sack, but it was more of a pressure against Eluemunor that forced Mallet to step up, which allowed Allen to disengage and clean up underneath (Link). Although obviously the sizable asterisks is that it's Allen, a 1st rounder facing a 5th round, so it's almost to be expected. But it was disappointing to see the same issues lead to negative results, as he would attempt to lean into his defender at the point of contact, and fail to proper extend his arms, which exposed him to either being swam over or having his hands chopped. Now it wasn't all woeful as he did have several snaps where he looked like he could very well belong. However, there were also times when he outright looked lost and was simply looking for a defender to get his hands on. Overall, it wasn't the type of performance you'd hope for, even for a player at his stage of development who likely won't be forced into a starting role. That was my opinion.

The one thing that gives me hope for him is that he really doesnt have much if any experience. Not just getting a late start, but the fact that he didnt play until his senior year at A&M and they largely run a spread offense where he was in a 2 point stance and the ball was out quick.

He mostly just had to get in the way for a second or two and job done.

So in terms of the finer points of blocking for a pro style offense with a QB under center, and man/gap blocking he really has no frame of reference and has never had coaching. I fully expected him to look lost and struggle, especially moving to the interior which hes never done and against starters/primary back ups which he wasnt expected to face much.

It wasnt a great showing, but at least in line or exceeded my expectations. And theres a good foundation of size, athleticism, and skill set (wrestling background and knowledge of holds, leverage, balance, using weight against opponent, etc...) for him to build off of with proper coaching.

For me, the real measuring stick isnt taking this first performance, but measuring that against what we see in the coming weeks.If there's marked improvement then ill be fairly optimistic about him.