The Offensive Line Thread

[RavensMania]

The time for Ozzie to reload the oline was last years free agency and draft and this years draft. The 18 draft looks like a mixed bag to me

Actually the 2018 draft looks really good on oline, this past year wasn't good at all. It was a real down year for oline talent.

 

[BloodRaven]

Actually the 2018 draft looks really good on oline, this past year wasn't good at all. It was a real down year for oline talent.

Im talking about our draft position not the draft class, more specifically trading down for Cam Robinson or Forrest Lamp or move up in the 3rd for Eiflin or Feeney etc

 

[RavensMania]

Im talking about our draft position not the draft class, more specifically trading down for Cam Robinson or Forrest Lamp or move up in the 3rd for Eiflin or Feeney etc

my bad. Misunderstood what you were getting at. I wasn't a fan of Cam Robinson, but I was a fan of Forrest Lamp. Of course he is out for the season.

 

[rossihunter2]

I respectfully disagree. Ozzie's had a hell of career, a hall of fame one as a GM, but we've missed the playoffs the past two season's and he's a big reason why. We hit a massive slump drafting wise from 2009-2013 with the exception of 2010, because that was a good draft class. He selected people like Cody, Elam, Brown, Upshaw. Sure, we had lower draft position, but he still needed to hit those picks. He had a good draft again in 2014, and it looks like 2015 is good too, and 2016 has been his best class in years. But, even with that we had 2 clearcut SUPER needs this offseason and he only addressed one of them(I'm very happy he finally found edge rushers. Both Bowser and Williams look fantastic). His plan is predicated around the health of our QB, which is now currently in doubt. Oh, and it doesn't help that our oline depth is also an absolute joke. He completely ignored the offense in the draft. We could have used another TE or WR, and got nothing(Ozzie got very lucky that Maclin was released). We needed a RT. Nothing. I don't care if the talent haul was poor(it was), I would have much rather disregarded Brandon Williams and have gotten a good guard like Larry Warford, especially with how good the rest of our young dlinemen have looked.

I'm sick and tired of this offense basically being neglected via the draft. Sure, we drafted Stanley, Perriman, Maxx, etc but we've been drafting far more defensive players than offensive ones. We need to fix this damn line. It's not good enough. That should have been priority number one. The only guy that truly inspires confidence thus far from what I've seen is Jensen, who looks like an upgrade over Zuttah. Howard is a downgrade, and LG is a crapshoot.

Decosta said earlier today that more moves are possible, including a potential trade, but we need to do something NOW. Our entire offense depends on the line. It doesn't need to be elite, it doesn't even need to be above average. But I have serious questions about it. Will Howard get back into football shape? Who will emerge at LG? Any other moves?

I seriously think Ozzie has lost his fastball. His prioritizing this offseason was beyond poor. Oline should have been priority number one. No questions asked. That was all that was separating us from having a playoff team last season. Sure, our defense is godly now. But that ain't going to mean a damn thing because we won't be able to score TDs or establish a running game. Granted, because of Roman we should be better this season, but I have my serious doubts.

I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong. But I am seriously worried.

so essentially what you are saying is that ozzie was at his worst between 2009-13 but has had some of his best draft classes in recent history in the last few years including one potentially historic one - so now is the time to fire him? - drafting is not a criticism of ozzie tbh given the recent upswing - you could have justified it draft-wise after 2013 but he had just won a superbowl with some high profile brilliant free agent signings so he wasnt on his way out

so my take on this is that the only legitimate concern with regards to ozzie was this season not prioritising oline when, as others have mentioned, we've had historically poor olineman free agent and draft classes and all were overpaid

you could say that we should have gone for elflein in stead of wormley or that we should have kept wagner over williams (that was a move i was actively predicting at the time until wagner's contract came out) but it wasnt a clearcut decision

hindsight is 20/20 and even then im still not sure what i would have done better/instead to fix the oline... so there is no way ozzie gets canned - the players love him and he keeps making astute free agent signings and is known (rightly still) as one of the best drafters in the game (and anyway if you want to criticise the draft, technically its eric decosta who runs that process so...)

 

[The Raven]

so essentially what you are saying is that ozzie was at his worst between 2009-13 but has had some of his best draft classes in recent history in the last few years including one potentially historic one - so now is the time to fire him? - drafting is not a criticism of ozzie tbh given the recent upswing - you could have justified it draft-wise after 2013 but he had just won a superbowl with some high profile brilliant free agent signings so he wasnt on his way out

so my take on this is that the only legitimate concern with regards to ozzie was this season not prioritising oline when, as others have mentioned, we've had historically poor olineman free agent and draft classes and all were overpaid

you could say that we should have gone for elflein in stead of wormley or that we should have kept wagner over williams (that was a move i was actively predicting at the time until wagner's contract came out) but it wasnt a clearcut decision

hindsight is 20/20 and even then im still not sure what i would have done better/instead to fix the oline... so there is no way ozzie gets canned - the players love him and he keeps making astute free agent signings and is known (rightly still) as one of the best drafters in the game (and anyway if you want to criticise the draft, technically its eric decosta who runs that process so...)

The recent drafts have been fantastic, but that's more so an evaluation of Decosta. Also, while the drafts have yielded good players, I don't know if Ozzie has prioritized positions of need enough in the draft or free agency.

You could be the best scouting and drafting FO in the league but lose because of poor priorities. I'd argue that's what has partially caused the post-Super Bowl skid -- bad priorities. Whether it was pass rushers in 2008-10, the oline in 2013 and 2015/16 or receivers since forever, we have failed to adequately prioritize our weaknesses. Maybe there's an argument that this could put Ozzie on thin ice.

I totally realize, understand, and appreciate the "best available player" approach to the draft, but that only works when you actually fill holes in free agency. We didn't fill our oline holes this year.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I still think Ozzie has a 2 year plan. Follow he strengths of the classes and let it play itself out. If Jensen proves to be legit, and I think signs are pointing that direction, then we are a LG away from a very good line, add a RT(or if Lewis ends up there) then we are talking about a doMinant line. Meanwhile we went with the strength of the class, signed a blockbuster SS and a solid veteran cb, and drafted a potential stud corner, along with 2 potential stud pass rushers, now in one quick swing we can reasonably believe that the late game defensive collapses are over with and our defense can put one score games out of reach.

Then next year, go with the strength of the class, OL looks excellent next year, even with a good season we can reasonably expect Quentin Nelson to be available as guards aren't a hot draft commodity, that is a massive boost to our line. Ozzie is showing patience and frugality here, it's frustrating as hell but I think it's incredibly clear that this is a long term thing based on available quality players.

If they fuckoff the OL and WRs again next year then I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. But for now I think Ozzie and Eric have done a hell of a job building a defense that should dominate at a ridiculous level for a long time, and a good core on offense assuming guys stay healthy. Perriman, maxx, Stanley, Jensen, Lewis, Dixon, makes a formidable young core, health still is our biggest concern as we are just snakebit there.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I still think Ozzie has a 2 year plan. Follow he strengths of the classes and let it play itself out. If Jensen proves to be legit, and I think signs are pointing that direction, then we are a LG away from a very good line, add a RT(or if Lewis ends up there) then we are talking about a doMinant line. Meanwhile we went with the strength of the class, signed a blockbuster SS and a solid veteran cb, and drafted a potential stud corner, along with 2 potential stud pass rushers, now in one quick swing we can reasonably believe that the late game defensive collapses are over with and our defense can put one score games out of reach.

Then next year, go with the strength of the class, OL looks excellent next year, even with a good season we can reasonably expect Quentin Nelson to be available as guards aren't a hot draft commodity, that is a massive boost to our line. Ozzie is showing patience and frugality here, it's frustrating as hell but I think it's incredibly clear that this is a long term thing based on available quality players.

If they fuckoff the OL and WRs again next year then I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. But for now I think Ozzie and Eric have done a hell of a job building a defense that should dominate at a ridiculous level for a long time, and a good core on offense assuming guys stay healthy. Perriman, maxx, Stanley, Jensen, Lewis, Dixon, makes a formidable young core, health still is our biggest concern as we are just snakebit there.

If we resigned osemele over Williams the oline would be looking awesome. Especially if Lewis wasn't hurt. And the DLine would be looking really good even without Williams. Urban Henry and Pierce could all eventually be better than Williams this year. Then if Jernigan wasn't traded the DLine is pretty strong and deep. Pierce Jernigan and Urban is pretty cool. Then Davis is depth and Henry the wildcard. He is a little raw but has too shelf athletic traits. If he becomes a football player he along with pierce could make williams quite expendable.


Stanley Osemele Jensen Yanda Lewis is as good maybe better than Dallas OLine. I think Jensen will be a top 8 center this yr. Stanley and Osemele could be the best LT and LG in the league. Offense could run to the left side with power and effectiveness as runs to the right side of the line. At worst Stanley is a top5 LT lining up beside the best LG. Ravens would challenge patriots for a Super Bowl run cuz of dominance on offensive and defensive lines. Stanley Osemele Yanda maybe best at their positions. Then Jensen is gonna be a unique center. Who brings rare power and aggression to the position at 325 lbs and a better athlete than realized. Look up his combine numbers. Dude is an athlete. That would be so funny having 4 all pros along the Oline.

 

[BloodRaven]

KO got stupid money 11.6M a year, I always said Brandon Brooks was just as good but without the hype and he signed for 8M. Now Im not a fan of pff so take it or leave it but Brooks had the second highest cumulative grade for last season after Yanda and just ahead of ZMartin and KO.

 

[Adreme]

I still think Ozzie has a 2 year plan. Follow he strengths of the classes and let it play itself out. If Jensen proves to be legit, and I think signs are pointing that direction, then we are a LG away from a very good line, add a RT(or if Lewis ends up there) then we are talking about a doMinant line. Meanwhile we went with the strength of the class, signed a blockbuster SS and a solid veteran cb, and drafted a potential stud corner, along with 2 potential stud pass rushers, now in one quick swing we can reasonably believe that the late game defensive collapses are over with and our defense can put one score games out of reach.

Then next year, go with the strength of the class, OL looks excellent next year, even with a good season we can reasonably expect Quentin Nelson to be available as guards aren't a hot draft commodity, that is a massive boost to our line. Ozzie is showing patience and frugality here, it's frustrating as hell but I think it's incredibly clear that this is a long term thing based on available quality players.

If they fuckoff the OL and WRs again next year then I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. But for now I think Ozzie and Eric have done a hell of a job building a defense that should dominate at a ridiculous level for a long time, and a good core on offense assuming guys stay healthy. Perriman, maxx, Stanley, Jensen, Lewis, Dixon, makes a formidable young core, health still is our biggest concern as we are just snakebit there.

I'm not sure that's the plan so much as that's how it worked out. If Elflein falls to the Ravens or the trade back works out and the Ravens take Lamp (though honestly they could have just as easily been targeting a pass rusher), then we aren't talking about a 2 year plan we are talking about a roster with strong starters but no depth. However, the draft worked out in such a way that the Ravens ended up with a stacked defense for years to come (always a good thing to have) and the only major need being along the offensive line.

 

[Deebo813]

Idk if yall remember flacco play last year, but simply based of that we couldve had dallas oline and he still wouldve looked horrible.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

KO got stupid money 11.6M a year, I always said Brandon Brooks was just as good but without the hype and he signed for 8M. Now Im not a fan of pff so take it or leave it but Brooks had the second highest cumulative grade for last season after Yanda and just ahead of ZMartin and KO.

I really like Brandon Brooks. We shoulda signed him to replace Osemele. Which shows Ozzie and company planned all along to invest that money in aging vets to fill holes from bad drafting. But it's cool. According to some fans Weddle has 3 pro bowl yrs left at his age. And Wallace will be a deep threat at 35 yrs old to. Anyways It knew Osemele would reject that "Strong Offer" that ALWAYS results in the player leaving whenever Harbaugh says that. Or else would have signed Brooks to replace Osemele.

But management didn't have any qualms paying similar money to Brandon Williams that can't rush the QB. But plays on defense. So it planned on investing the cap space in defense and patchwork. and neglecting the offensive line. And the offense in general. I'm not at all excited or impressed with Jeremy Maclin signing. He happened to be the aging vet that was cut to sign cheap and patch up the offense. So much for building the best Oline in the league. I think that is how harbaugh said it.

By neglecting the offense it isn't saying much for their opinion of Joe. Management believes defense and not asking Joe to do much will yield payoffs. If it though it would get returns on investing in talent around Joe, it would be doing so.

Aa for Brooks vs Osemele. Brooks is vastly criminally underrated. He is stout, fairly aggressive and can move and pull very well for his size. (I actually believe Eluemunor is raw but has a very similar raw skill set to Brandon Brooks) However Osemele can do some things Brooks can't. He can play tackle very well. Would probably be the best RT in the league. And a very good LT. Osemele is a more aggressive mauler with great stamina for a 335lb lineman. He explodes into blocks like a smaller athletic zone guard. And cuz of his endurance he brings it and totally intimidates opponents for 60 minutes. Ask Wilfork, Justin Smith and a party of the leagues most fearsome defensive tackles. However with that said I would prefer Brooks with his price tag over Osemele with his. He is a mauler to and close enough to Osemele's dominance that I would prefer him at his cost.

And I wasn't insulting Joe by saying management didn't invest in his surrounding cast. I believe Joe can throw as pretty a football as ANYBODY "IF" he is allowed to look through his targets set and throw. That is where the tier ONE QBs are better. Joe needs to be allowed to progress through his players set and throw at his pace. He can't look over his receivers at warp speed and make a fast instinctive spur of second decisions and sling it with accuracy under pressure from compromised positions like Rodgers Brady Bree's Ben and to some extent Matt Ryan. But if he is allowed to comfortably scan his reads, set and throw.... Joe throws a beautiful, tight, accurate spiral as good as any QB. OLine is very important for Joe to be a good QB. It's disgusting management has neglected the OLine knowing Joe is so much better when the line dominates. The OLine dominating was key to Joes incredible Super Bowl run. It's the best Joe ever played. And he could do it again if his OLine dominates. He would only need competent WRs to play well if his OLine can dominate and allow him to set and throw comfortably

 

[purplepittabread88]

Idk if yall remember flacco play last year, but simply based of that we couldve had dallas oline and he still wouldve looked horrible.

It looked like her never trusted his knee. He would fall back and throw off of his back foot no matter how good the protection was on him. It is probably due to the knee injury. No matter what, if we want to be good that needs to change. Early struggles in the line would certainly not help that.

 

[cobrajet]

The recent drafts have been fantastic, but that's more so an evaluation of Decosta. Also, while the drafts have yielded good players, I don't know if Ozzie has prioritized positions of need enough in the draft or free agency.

You could be the best scouting and drafting FO in the league but lose because of poor priorities. I'd argue that's what has partially caused the post-Super Bowl skid -- bad priorities. Whether it was pass rushers in 2008-10, the oline in 2013 and 2015/16 or receivers since forever, we have failed to adequately prioritize our weaknesses. Maybe there's an argument that this could put Ozzie on thin ice.

I totally realize, understand, and appreciate the "best available player" approach to the draft, but that only works when you actually fill holes in free agency. We didn't fill our oline holes this year.

I have been saying that exact thing for a few years. I just think if you have a big need and poor depth, that needs to be addressed very early.

 

[Sooky]

I don't think anyone this last offseason was worth signing on the o-line except the Bengals guard that signed with Cleveland. Nobody really stood out to me in the draft. Building a team requires you to have patience to add the right players at the right time and that can take a few years. I am 100% confident in the defense the front office is building even if it hinders the offense for a year or two.

 

[The Raven]

I don't think anyone this last offseason was worth signing on the o-line except the Bengals guard that signed with Cleveland. Nobody really stood out to me in the draft. Building a team requires you to have patience to add the right players at the right time and that can take a few years. I am 100% confident in the defense the front office is building even if it hinders the offense for a year or two.

First, I freaking love your avatar. The new season is too funny.

I would've loved going after Kevin Zeitler. I would have let Brandon Williams and Wagner go if it meant getting Zeitler and Jefferson. Kevin Zeitler would bring this oline into the top five.

 

[Truth]

Concerning the talk of OL FAs, one player on my radar of realistic potential signings was J.C. Tretter. He was arguably of the better centers prior to the injury. He turned 26 a few months ago, he was passable at LT the year before, so his versatility was a plus. Injuries were definitely a concern, but he ended up signing a three year contract averaging a little over $5 million per season, which is very reasonable for a starter. Would've honestly preferred him to say a Brandon Carr. Not that we didn't need CB depth nor that I'm disappointed in having Carr on the roster; but considering that this was one of the best CB draft classes in years and one of the worst OL classes in recent memory, perhaps it would've made sense to prioritize the latter via other means and the former via the draft. This point hangs partly on how Tretter has fared to date as I haven't kept tabs on him thus far.

 

[Sooky]

First, I freaking love your avatar. The new season is too funny.

I would've loved going after Kevin Zeitler. I would have let Brandon Williams and Wagner go if it meant getting Zeitler and Jefferson. Kevin Zeitler would bring this oline into the top five.

Zeitler is fantastic and I wish he was a Raven but man I am so happy the Browns seem to be signing the right players right now.

I am tired of the Browns jokes when they really aren't that bad. I really like the direction and the young talent from high drafts are finally stacking on one another. I would probably take the Browns' roster over 8 or 9 teams in the NFL right now if I had to inherit a team with their players and cap space right now.

 

[RavensMania]

I have been saying that exact thing for a few years. I just think if you have a big need and poor depth, that needs to be addressed very early.

It's actually a bad situation to be in. If you start drafting for need, and filling holes, and not following your draft board then in the long run, it is possible, the team will not be as good, because the players aren't as good.

I believe in drafting best player available regardless of need, in most instances. Now when a team sets up the big board, certain positions have a higher value then others and if a couple of players are close on the draft board, and one of them is a player of need, then I'm sure the front office would go with the player of need.

This year, outside of Williams and Davis, the WR talent wasn't that good. I wasn't a fan of John Ross because his injury history, so I wouldn't have taken him until the second round. Same thing goes for oline. I wasn't thrilled with any guard outside of Forrest Lamp and I watched a ton of his tape as well as other lineman.

If you don't follow your board, the team will most likely fail.

 

[Sandtown]

It's actually a bad situation to be in. If you start drafting for need, and filling holes, and not following your draft board then in the long run, it is possible, the team will not be as good, because the players aren't as good.

I believe in drafting best player available regardless of need, in most instances. Now when a team sets up the big board, certain positions have a higher value then others and if a couple of players are close on the draft board, and one of them is a player of need, then I'm sure the front office would go with the player of need.

This year, outside of Williams and Davis, the WR talent wasn't that good. I wasn't a fan of John Ross because his injury history, so I wouldn't have taken him until the second round. Same thing goes for oline. I wasn't thrilled with any guard outside of Forrest Lamp and I watched a ton of his tape as well as other lineman.

If you don't follow your board, the team will most likely fail.

I agree. The Ravens stay true to their board and they don't panic atleast not often. I think alot of Ravens fans had a problem with the Chris Womley pick in the third round but it was really a best player available type pick/move. Womley was considered a high second round talent but he fell to The Ravens in the third round of the draft and of course The Harbaugh connection probably jumped up his value even more.I may not have liked it but it was no doubt a best player available type move.

 

[Ravenbran]

So real thoughts given that I had the chance to watch some of game via reruns

-Hurst was solid.
-Jensen had a play where he was absolutely bullied. But his overall body of work inspires confidence
-Howard looked rusty, not in football shape yet. But I don't think his performance was not as terrible as some indicated. Even if he has to move to guard I ain't hitting panic yet
-The other two guards weren't Spectular. Skura had his struggles. LG is a definite need and we need to make a move soon.


We need to see this line in action with Yanda and Stanley. I fully expect us to field a
Stanley-Zuttah-Jensen-Yanda-Howard oline come game one at this point. Which at the very least will be solid in pass protection as an entire unit. Likewise, the right side of the line should be a big unit for running lanes

Going to be interesting to see how Fatty Howard is going to hold up at right tackle. You can bet your sweet ass I would put my best edge rusher up against that turtle!