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The Offensive Line Thread

allblackraven said:
I seriously doubt that - he will be 3 down OLB for Skins, worth mid-second definitely. Particularly paired up with Allen - they know each other like twins - it will be like a swiss watch for years to come on Redskins D line.
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But with Kerrigan being a stud 3 down OLB and Preston smith being a legit up and comer, and then having no pass rush from anywhere else with junior galette always getting hurt, they needed instant pass rush. I don't think he provides much in that regard, he could be a Markus golden type, but even that is just solid effort based production when they need an immediate boost to their pass rush.

And I like Ryan Anderson, was a big fan, I just didn't think he was a great fit there. for an edge pick I thought Jordan Willis would've been better, and I also think they could've used another DT or another ILB or even a CB, I don't believe in ziggy hood at all, who the hell is stacy McGee? Breeland lol, will Compton and mason foster. They had a shitload of liabilities at every level and next to no depth and no pass rush to speak of. If they wanted to make a real leap, they could've got a guy like dalvin Tomlinson, Zach cunningham, awuzie, Willis, McMillan, Witherspoon, rivers, Lawson, won't say T williams because that's my mans nd shit, but you get the point. They had a chance to get some big time instant pass rush/starting DL/starting ILB/CB or literally anything had a Chance for a massive upgrade, but they instead opted for an undersized effort guy who's only gonna see the field if he takes snaps from Preston smith and junior galette(personally would rather have either of them on the field over him).

Again, I like Anderson, his motor and work ethic are gonna get him a role in this league, but I feel he brings a very minor short term upgrade for them when they had huge short and long term upgrades right there for the taking
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
But with Kerrigan being a stud 3 down OLB and Preston smith being a legit up and comer, and then having no pass rush from anywhere else with junior galette always getting hurt, they needed instant pass rush. I don't think he provides much in that regard, he could be a Markus golden type, but even that is just solid effort based production when they need an immediate boost to their pass rush.

And I like Ryan Anderson, was a big fan, I just didn't think he was a great fit there. for an edge pick I thought Jordan Willis would've been better, and I also think they could've used another DT or another ILB or even a CB, I don't believe in ziggy hood at all, who the hell is stacy McGee? Breeland lol, will Compton and mason foster. They had a shitload of liabilities at every level and next to no depth and no pass rush to speak of. If they wanted to make a real leap, they could've got a guy like dalvin Tomlinson, Zach cunningham, awuzie, Willis, McMillan, Witherspoon, rivers, Lawson, won't say T williams because that's my mans nd shit, but you get the point. They had a chance to get some big time instant pass rush/starting DL/starting ILB/CB or literally anything had a Chance for a massive upgrade, but they instead opted for an undersized effort guy who's only gonna see the field if he takes snaps from Preston smith and junior galette(personally would rather have either of them on the field over him).

Again, I like Anderson, his motor and work ethic are gonna get him a role in this league, but I feel he brings a very minor short term upgrade for them when they had huge short and long term upgrades right there for the taking
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Yes, there defense will be bad again this year. Btw, I like McGee. He had a very good year last year. Breeland definitely had a down year but he has the ability and supposedly has looked good in camp. I think he is going to have a bounce back year. However I agree, there d is going to have another bad year and worse, they don't have Scot McCloughan to help them in 2018:)
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
But with Kerrigan being a stud 3 down OLB and Preston smith being a legit up and comer, and then having no pass rush from anywhere else with junior galette always getting hurt, they needed instant pass rush. I don't think he provides much in that regard, he could be a Markus golden type, but even that is just solid effort based production when they need an immediate boost to their pass rush.

And I like Ryan Anderson, was a big fan, I just didn't think he was a great fit there. for an edge pick I thought Jordan Willis would've been better, and I also think they could've used another DT or another ILB or even a CB, I don't believe in ziggy hood at all, who the hell is stacy McGee? Breeland lol, will Compton and mason foster. They had a shitload of liabilities at every level and next to no depth and no pass rush to speak of. If they wanted to make a real leap, they could've got a guy like dalvin Tomlinson, Zach cunningham, awuzie, Willis, McMillan, Witherspoon, rivers, Lawson, won't say T williams because that's my mans nd shit, but you get the point. They had a chance to get some big time instant pass rush/starting DL/starting ILB/CB or literally anything had a Chance for a massive upgrade, but they instead opted for an undersized effort guy who's only gonna see the field if he takes snaps from Preston smith and junior galette(personally would rather have either of them on the field over him).

Again, I like Anderson, his motor and work ethic are gonna get him a role in this league, but I feel he brings a very minor short term upgrade for them when they had huge short and long term upgrades right there for the taking
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Maybe you're right, I don't know. We'll see, I guess.

The best thing about it is that this is a thread about the Ravens O line :)
 
I think Garrett hit the nail on the hammer on Ravens Unscripted when talking about the OL. Yeah, they may not be a great unit but at least we got bigger and stronger there and that will be a difference maker in the run game. Alex Lewis and Zuttah couldn't really get it going without much play strength. Zuttah had serious leverage issues and had no punch or push in his game.

Lewis did very well in pass protections, but didn't play with as much play strength as advertised. Hurst looks like a guy who doesn't play with a lot of strength and we've seen him get pushed back but I think a lot of that has to do with his serious foot work issues. When you don't get your feet set or planted right, it doesn't matter what type of strength you have, you are very vulnerable to getting blown past by. At guard he's not going to have to rely on his feet as much. Don't get me wrong, play strength is a huge question mark but I think he's not going to be as bad at LG as we've seen him at LT or RT. I think the heat Hurst get's from the fans is warranted for the most part. I've seen him play some really good games, and a lot of bad games as well. This is his 4th season so he has to put something together at the very least.

Howard is a downgrade from Wagner but he's bigger and stronger. Wagner was more of a technical RT, not your prototypical man/gap blocking OL. Where he excelled at was footwork and his craft and didn't really have a lot of punch at RT. He is actually much better in the run game than people think, but I don't think he's a great fit for what we want to do now. We want to literally push people and bully them at the LOS, that's not Wagner and I'm not downgrading him, it's just not his game. I still feel like we will miss him but once Howard gets himself back into shape and works himself up with this team I think we'll being to see this OL take form into a good unit on both the pass and run blocking.

FWIW, I think Lewis will be missed. I was very upset when he went down but in the end, I think we won't dread his absence in the run game.
 
I still would strongly prefer Howard at LG and hurst at RT, or bowanko at C and Jensen at LG.

I feel like hurst at LG and Howard at RT is exposing their downsides to the fullest. Hurst doesn't get much push, he's got a solid drop back and anchor, but is smaller and weaker than you want at guard, and Howard is the polar opposite.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I still would strongly prefer Howard at LG and hurst at RT, or bowanko at C and Jensen at LG.

I feel like hurst at LG and Howard at RT is exposing their downsides to the fullest. Hurst doesn't get much push, he's got a solid drop back and anchor, but is smaller and weaker than you want at guard, and Howard is the polar opposite.
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The Ravens want some bully ball on the OL. Hurst is not that type of guy, but what really hurts him IMO is his sever lack of athleticism to go with his heavy feet. Thats killer if you're a tackle in a ZBS, switching to more of a tradition power/gap scheme, at least we won't have to see much of those weaknesses flash at Guard.
I think a big problem for Hurst has been maintaining weight, he has a high metabolism so his weight tends to drop. He's certainly gotten bigger and everyone has seen it from him, I personally think that he has good size, just has trouble with maintaining his weight. I think playing at Guard limits his weaknesses to an extent.
I definitely prefer Jensen at C, I understand that his run blocking is not perfect but he plays with strength, is nasty and shows that he can be a mauler, we need that at C more than anywhere else.
 
TheCity5 said:
The Ravens want some bully ball on the OL. Hurst is not that type of guy, but what really hurts him IMO is his sever lack of athleticism to go with his heavy feet. Thats killer if you're a tackle in a ZBS, switching to more of a tradition power/gap scheme, at least we won't have to see much of those weaknesses flash at Guard.
I think a big problem for Hurst has been maintaining weight, he has a high metabolism so his weight tends to drop. He's certainly gotten bigger and everyone has seen it from him, I personally think that he has good size, just has trouble with maintaining his weight. I think playing at Guard limits his weaknesses to an extent.
I definitely prefer Jensen at C, I understand that his run blocking is not perfect but he plays with strength, is nasty and shows that he can be a mauler, we need that at C more than anywhere else.
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I don't think hurst has a severe lack of athleticism, he's just average there, his drops in the preseason looked better than ever and it gave me a level of comfort to have him starting at RT, but Howard's drops were fucking downright abysmal
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I don't think hurst has a severe lack of athleticism, he's just average there, his drops in the preseason looked better than ever and it gave me a level of comfort to have him starting at RT, but Howard's drops were fucking downright abysmal
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Howard's drops were definitely bad, but I seriously think he just has not had enough time to work himself up back to shape at the moment. He couldn't even practice at a certain point because of how out of shape he was. Hurst has looked much better and I don't think the coaches were bluffing in regards to his improvements and they better not be, this guy not only had 4 seasons to improve but has been given more opportunities than anyone else. This year he looks faster, stronger and a bit more quick but last few years athleticism was certainly a problem for him IMO.

I think going up against our DL has been good practice for him though it is just practice where guys are not completely going 100%. I think Howard comes along as the season goes, he's definitely a red flag and it can certainly be agreed upon that he's a bigger concern than Hurst.
 
Fun fact about Hurst is he was the lightest and slowest tackle in his class, he ran like a 5.6 which is Rich Eisen in his suit type speed.
 
Well, this oline is in for a test today. I consider them to have one of the best front fours in the league. Atkins, Dunlap, and Johnson pose a big challenge to the big guys up front. Jensen and Hurst are likely going to be tested by Atkins on occasion. I'm not as concerned about Stanley vs Johnson, but that's a good match up. What worries me is Howard vs Dunlap. The silver lining is that Dunlap's game is about power, not speed, and that plays into Howard's hand.

Regardless, this is a front that has me concerned, but if we hold it down, I have high hopes for the season.

Also, on another note, where did the talk of Jensen being a bad run blocker come from? That's always been his expertise. He's not the best at getting to the second level, and he's not great at reach blocks on zone plays, but he's strong at the point of attack and gets phenomenal push when you let him go downhill. Pass protection, historically, was his biggest downfall.
 
The Raven said:
Well, this oline is in for a test today. I consider them to have one of the best front fours in the league. Atkins, Dunlap, and Johnson pose a big challenge to the big guys up front. Jensen and Hurst are likely going to be tested by Atkins on occasion. I'm not as concerned about Stanley vs Johnson, but that's a good match up. What worries me is Howard vs Dunlap. The silver lining is that Dunlap's game is about power, not speed, and that plays into Howard's hand.

Regardless, this is a front that has me concerned, but if we hold it down, I have high hopes for the season.

Also, on another note, where did the talk of Jensen being a bad run blocker come from? That's always been his expertise. He's not the best at getting to the second level, and he's not great at reach blocks on zone plays, but he's strong at the point of attack and gets phenomenal push when you let him go downhill. Pass protection, historically, was his biggest downfall.
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My only guess would be that people were judging him as a run blocker from when he slimmed down immensely for the stretch zone, but anytime he's been able to keep it close quarters and beat up on guys he's been excellent and a tone setter. And regardless of scheme he's had a mental lapse on occasion and failed to pick a guy up in pass pro.

Strange that this thought has been spoken of multiple times, Jensen is a power run blocker and an average pass blocker, idk where anyone would get the exact opposite idea from
 
The Raven said:
Well, this oline is in for a test today. I consider them to have one of the best front fours in the league. Atkins, Dunlap, and Johnson pose a big challenge to the big guys up front. Jensen and Hurst are likely going to be tested by Atkins on occasion. I'm not as concerned about Stanley vs Johnson, but that's a good match up. What worries me is Howard vs Dunlap. The silver lining is that Dunlap's game is about power, not speed, and that plays into Howard's hand.

Regardless, this is a front that has me concerned, but if we hold it down, I have high hopes for the season.

Also, on another note, where did the talk of Jensen being a bad run blocker come from? That's always been his expertise. He's not the best at getting to the second level, and he's not great at reach blocks on zone plays, but he's strong at the point of attack and gets phenomenal push when you let him go downhill. Pass protection, historically, was his biggest downfall.
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Jensen is definitely a better pass blocker than run blocker.
 
RavensMania said:
Jensen is definitely a better pass blocker than run blocker.
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Strongly disagree, based on my own eye test. PFF has routinely graded him an elite run blocker, but his pass pro has kept him off the field. Alas, who cares? He's proven so far this year to be above average at both.

JoeyFlex5 said:
My only guess would be that people were judging him as a run blocker from when he slimmed down immensely for the stretch zone, but anytime he's been able to keep it close quarters and beat up on guys he's been excellent and a tone setter. And regardless of scheme he's had a mental lapse on occasion and failed to pick a guy up in pass pro.

Strange that this thought has been spoken of multiple times, Jensen is a power run blocker and an average pass blocker, idk where anyone would get the exact opposite idea from
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Jensen just isn't a zone blocker. He can do an inside zone block but if you ask him to reach block or scoop, you're asking the impossible. That's probably the issue.

It's not as though he's slow, because he's a fairly athletic guy for a 320 pound center, but I think he must have bad flexibility or bad hips or something. He's just not good at staying square to his target when he's on the move.
 
The Raven said:
Strongly disagree, based on my own eye test. PFF has routinely graded him an elite run blocker, but his pass pro has kept him off the field. Alas, who cares? He's proven so far this year to be above average at both.
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Do you really want to bring PFF into it. Ok, I'll bite.

Ryan Jensens overall grade from 2016 was 72.2. His run blocking grade was 47.7 and his Pass Blocking grade was 81.4. Your eye test is wrong.
 
RavensMania said:
Do you really want to bring PFF into it. Ok, I'll bite.

Ryan Jensens overall grade from 2016 was 72.2. His run blocking grade was 47.7 and his Pass Blocking grade was 81.4. Your eye test is wrong.
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Didn't know that about 2016. I'm looking for his 2015 PFF grades. I seem to remember him being rated the number one run blocking guard over last four weeks. I've found two articles on this. He was +3.7 against Chiefs and +7 against Steelers. Looking for more but it's likely behind PFF's paywall.

Also, this list of the top 35 left guards from 2015 -- by Matt Miller, one of the absolute best scouts in the media -- also says Jensen is a better run blocker than pass blocker: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2608298-br-nfl-1000-ranking-the-top-35-left-guards-from-2015
 
The Raven said:
Didn't know that about 2016. I'm looking for his 2015 PFF grades. I seem to remember him being rated the number one run blocking guard over last four weeks. I've found two articles on this. He was +3.7 against Chiefs and +7 against Steelers. Looking for more but it's likely behind PFF's paywall.

Also, this list of the top 35 left guards from 2015 -- by Matt Miller, one of the absolute best scouts in the media -- also says Jensen is a better run blocker than pass blocker: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2608298-br-nfl-1000-ranking-the-top-35-left-guards-from-2015
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I'm trying to find the 2015 as well and would have posted it earlier. He did do better in 2015.
 
RavensMania said:
I'm trying to find the 2015 as well and would have posted it earlier. He did do better in 2015.
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Regardless, as I said, he's proven so far this year to be a dominant run blocker and a phenomenal pass blocker. He's an absolutely bully in both phases and I'm eager to see what that attitude will do for us this year.
 
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