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Lamar Jackson

A

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
allblackraven said:
Yep, Flacco, Kaep and Johnny Manziel are the only QBs to make the list.
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One of those dudes is not like the other, one of those dudes just doesn't doesn't belong. Can you tell which dude is not like the other by the time I finish my song?

(Note: if we are only allowing wholesome fun then I might as well start quoting Sesame Street)
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Adreme said:
One of those dudes is not like the other, one of those dudes just doesn't doesn't belong. Can you tell which dude is not like the other by the time I finish my song?

(Note: if we are only allowing wholesome fun then I might as well start quoting Sesame Street)
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You could make a case for each of those three uniqueness, just depends on view point
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
purplepittabread88 said:
For sure I have to watch him more just waiting to get out of hell month (finals) first. I’m doing a ted talk this week on cte vs the benifits of the nfl basically and it has to be 10 minutes and memorized. I’m totally fucked but Atleast it’s a nice topic. This summer I’m going to study more on him.

I agree he is a once in a generation talent, but I pay way less attention to guys I don’t think we have a chance at as it only leads to heart break. (I still love you Anthony Miller) although I have gotten a lot of crap for it I do admit I prefer intelligent qbs but if his play can win us Games I’ll take that over a engineer who loses. I do think he is a quick learner which is obviously a positive I just hope all the information isn’t too much. I think people really underrate how tough the nfl mental game is. For ex Vick was a generational player who relied only on talent, and almost never studied film. Imagine if he was up to the mental side, could have Ben considered the goat. I love Lamar’s vision and ability to pick up a third down run more than anything. I think we can all agree one of the most annoying things about flacco is when it’s 3rd and two with open field and he chucks it deep for an inc.

He also has more passion which will be nice instead of joe laughing when we are down by 10 in a big game. (I love joe just pisses me off sometimes) also the underrated aspect of having him in madden will be dope.
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Lamar is miles ahead of where vick was developmentally coming out and he’s not an unintelligent person - certainly he seems to have a high football iq and processes post-snap very quickly and efficiently
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I'm doing more lamar jackson film today...

more specific observations so far:

  • his accuracy on deep balls coincides with better footwork and mechanics - he steps into the throws more often and rotates and brings his back hip forwards more often - his base could still be wider but he steps into those throws when there's space to step into - it suggests to me that footwork is going to be the key to that short ball accuracy especially vs pressure - he needs to set his feet and move his weight forwards more consistently on those shorter throws
  • his mechanics really do break down vs pressure which is a worry but it does also show a clear path to improvement because he's still making the right reads and getting the ball out towards the hot receiver with pressure in his face - but his accuracy is not good with pressure up the middle - he's good making the decision to stand in there and take a hit and deliver the ball but he really needs to set his feet and get his weight moving forward vs pressure
  • i have zero worries about his tendencies to be a pocket passer in the league - he's more natural reading and playing from the pocket than deshaun watson was last year - he reads better and faster and has to negotiate far more complex route concepts than deshaun did last year - and its at its most obvious when he's under pressure - even though that ball needs to be delivered better, lamar is not even thinking about bugging out of that pocket early and scrambling - as much as possible he lets those routes develop and gets the ball out
  • in terms of mechanics - lamar creates incredible torque from his hips and generates a lot of power from his arm - when his mechanics break down though its his feet first always - i probably sound like a broken record at this point but jackson is an accurate passer when he uses his feet and that is the most promising thing because as we've even seen with joe footwork really is a variable that coaching can affect and improve and its not like its something that lamar hasnt demonstrated - he has - we just need him to be more consistent with it (and maybe widen his base a little bit although im not sure he needs to widen it a huge amount) - the aim with jackson (very similar to joe actually) has to be to get him in rhythm with his footwork - both are lethal when they can get into a good rhythm with their feet
  • you can probably tell whether jackson's pass is going to be wide or on target simply looking at his feet just before he delivers a throw... if his feet arent quite right he'll be unbalanced and with rare exceptions is inaccurate - it's crazy how much of a difference this one aspect of his mechanics makes
  • Alex Lewis at Left Guard makes a huge amount of sense with Jackson moving forward - Jackson absolutely is going to be at his best with stout interior pass protection which is what we know Lewis offers and hopefully that continues even with his added bulk - ideally he'll improve vs interior pressure with more reps but the best assistance we can provide for jackson is a strong pass-protecting Oline and especially in the middle
  • Jackson is sophisticated in the way he manipulates the defence - he knows what they're thinking - and can force a safety to commit to a space or route by looking them off or by being patient and forcing them to make a decision and then throw to a route that's not even uncovered yet - these are x-factor traits that translate well to the NFL
  • there's a higher frequency of wobbly balls in jackson's ravens clips than there are on tape lol which is both concerning and relieving in equal measure... not sure how to unpack those clips yet - i just cant wait to see lamar in the preseason lol

i think ive now watched all of the tape of his i could find 3 times through lol
every time i go back through the tape im reassured - i get nervous thinking and talking and watching him when i listen to all the speculation and reporting etc. so i go back to the tape to remember why i had him rated so high on my board and i find that reassuring which is probably a good sign
 
RavenROC

RavenROC

Practice Squad
rossihunter2 said:
lamar is not even thinking about bugging out of that pocket early and scrambling - as much as possible he lets those routes develop and gets the ball out
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^ This

Saw some PFF or other analyst site that broke down his plays and found that somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of his rushing yards came from designed QB run plays.

I think a lot of the criticism comes from the assumptions that are made about QBs with gaudy rushing yard totals which is that they can't throw and they abandon plays early to move the ball themselves. Jackson wasn't doing that. He might not be as refined a pocket QB as some of the QBs taken ahead of him, but he's much further along in his development as a passer than people think because the rushing numbers blind them into false assumptions.
 
Oldfaithful

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
@rossihunter2

I’m not quoting that lol

But about the oline. I honestly think that it’s absolutely imperative for us to address the interior oline in the next draft. Yanda has another 2 or so years left but we need preserve the interior. Orlando Brown and Ronnie stanley are basically the perfect bookends for him as well, and Alex Lewis does make a lot of sense(I’m certainly hoping Harbaugh is right in seeing him as a pro bowl olinmenen).

The team may be joes for at least the next year, possibly two years if he plays well.. but we better actually fucking build the team around Lamar. I agree 100% with your analysis otherwise.

Also..... I’d like us to fire Marty even more now oddly enough. I trust Roman more with this.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Lost_In_Translation said:
@rossihunter2

I’m not quoting that lol

But about the oline. I honestly think that it’s absolutely imperative for us to address the interior oline in the next draft. Yanda has another 2 or so years left but we need preserve the interior. Orlando Brown and Ronnie stanley are basically the perfect bookends for him as well, and Alex Lewis does make a lot of sense(I’m certainly hoping Harbaugh is right in seeing him as a pro bowl olinmenen).

The team may be joes for at least the next year, possibly two years if he plays well.. but we better actually fucking build the team around Lamar. I agree 100% with your analysis otherwise.

Also..... I’d like us to fire Marty even more now oddly enough. I trust Roman more with this.
Click to expand...
Next years interior OL class looks fucking stellar so far
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
that's very interesting - you got any specific names i can look into?
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jesse burkett C from stanford looks very promising, and the G next to him Herbig looks like an absolute fucking monster, just a mammoth of a man and powerful as hell. Elgton Jenkins C from Ms St also looks solid. i mean i havent dove really deep into it but these are day 1, or more likely day 2 guys who all look to be immediate impact players, and i still have a good bit of looking to do for other players.
 
Ellicottraven

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
I'm doing more lamar jackson film today...

more specific observations so far:

  • his accuracy on deep balls coincides with better footwork and mechanics - he steps into the throws more often and rotates and brings his back hip forwards more often - his base could still be wider but he steps into those throws when there's space to step into - it suggests to me that footwork is going to be the key to that short ball accuracy especially vs pressure - he needs to set his feet and move his weight forwards more consistently on those shorter throws
  • his mechanics really do break down vs pressure which is a worry but it does also show a clear path to improvement because he's still making the right reads and getting the ball out towards the hot receiver with pressure in his face - but his accuracy is not good with pressure up the middle - he's good making the decision to stand in there and take a hit and deliver the ball but he really needs to set his feet and get his weight moving forward vs pressure
  • i have zero worries about his tendencies to be a pocket passer in the league - he's more natural reading and playing from the pocket than deshaun watson was last year - he reads better and faster and has to negotiate far more complex route concepts than deshaun did last year - and its at its most obvious when he's under pressure - even though that ball needs to be delivered better, lamar is not even thinking about bugging out of that pocket early and scrambling - as much as possible he lets those routes develop and gets the ball out
  • in terms of mechanics - lamar creates incredible torque from his hips and generates a lot of power from his arm - when his mechanics break down though its his feet first always - i probably sound like a broken record at this point but jackson is an accurate passer when he uses his feet and that is the most promising thing because as we've even seen with joe footwork really is a variable that coaching can affect and improve and its not like its something that lamar hasnt demonstrated - he has - we just need him to be more consistent with it (and maybe widen his base a little bit although im not sure he needs to widen it a huge amount) - the aim with jackson (very similar to joe actually) has to be to get him in rhythm with his footwork - both are lethal when they can get into a good rhythm with their feet
  • you can probably tell whether jackson's pass is going to be wide or on target simply looking at his feet just before he delivers a throw... if his feet arent quite right he'll be unbalanced and with rare exceptions is inaccurate - it's crazy how much of a difference this one aspect of his mechanics makes
  • Alex Lewis at Left Guard makes a huge amount of sense with Jackson moving forward - Jackson absolutely is going to be at his best with stout interior pass protection which is what we know Lewis offers and hopefully that continues even with his added bulk - ideally he'll improve vs interior pressure with more reps but the best assistance we can provide for jackson is a strong pass-protecting Oline and especially in the middle
  • Jackson is sophisticated in the way he manipulates the defence - he knows what they're thinking - and can force a safety to commit to a space or route by looking them off or by being patient and forcing them to make a decision and then throw to a route that's not even uncovered yet - these are x-factor traits that translate well to the NFL
  • there's a higher frequency of wobbly balls in jackson's ravens clips than there are on tape lol which is both concerning and relieving in equal measure... not sure how to unpack those clips yet - i just cant wait to see lamar in the preseason lol

i think ive now watched all of the tape of his i could find 3 times through lol
every time i go back through the tape im reassured - i get nervous thinking and talking and watching him when i listen to all the speculation and reporting etc. so i go back to the tape to remember why i had him rated so high on my board and i find that reassuring which is probably a good sign
Click to expand...
I believe one of the more important requirements to be a good QB is in the ability to read defenses and react accordingly. As long as he can successfully do that, the mechanics part of his game a year behind Flacco and with Urban coaching him up, I believe he'll be A-OK. I just don't want to see him in weird wild cat formations and trick plays this season. Let him have a 'real' red shirt year behind Flacco learning the offense, our offensive weapons and improving all his fundamentals. I think the kid is dedicated to the game. He's consistently improved him accuracy and mechanics year after year. In watching all his tapes did you find that as well? I would love to know if he showed constant improvement year on year. That would be a great indicator of his potential success at the NFL level too.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer


the pocket work at 3:18 is just beautiful, like thats rare, quality drop back, line is folding, still completes dropback and finds his rhythm, 2 well paced steps forward, sees a player come in out of nowhere unblocked on a late hustle move, appears to pay no attention to it but lightning quick backwards juke(dont call this a sidestep, thats an insult, this shit a raw juke fam) in the pocket sends the rusher flying off into fucktown, resets immediately in his newly formed pocket with more space than he had before the juke, keeps the rhythm and continues to step up as the rush is beginning to work back upfield, sets the feet late in the play but still in the pocket, good feet on the windup and release and follows through with his back hip.

honestly man this kinda stuff gets me excited when i watch most other qbs. jacksons pocket presence is simply incredible, his frame, narrow base, inconsistent motion, and the resulting errant throws and wobbly spirals do draw concern from me, but he at times, and seriously bear with me as im not calling this a 1:1 comparison, has pocket presence that is brady like, his vision of a collapsing pocket without taking his eyes away, his confidence and comfort in the face of a collapsing pocket, the maintaining of the mental clock and the rhythm of his steps when hes climbing the pocket, the subtle sidesteps that make rushers look like ZDS, comfortably making reads, confidently maneuvering the pocket and stepping up/back/to the side etc. its just all incredibly poised and confident looking and natural. and for him to be well aware of how lethal he is with his legs and STILL do this so consistently, like he so often doesnt even consider tucking and running and would rather be patient and play out the pass, is impressive, like really special, you just dont see qbs as explosive and mobile as a lamar jackson who are so willing to pass, michael fucking vick didnt have half the interest lamar has in playing it out in the pocket, jackson is more patient behind the line of scrimmage than vick was in 2010, he has an arm and generational running ability like vick, but patience with his mobility like russell wilson, and honest to god pocket poise thats almost brady like in some ways.

its honestly hard to believe after all these years of flacco, that we have this kind of qb, its so fucking exciting. sorry for gushing, im a little buzzed right now and just really diving into some ravens draft youtube holes right now
 
Ellicottraven

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
JoeyFlex5 said:


the pocket work at 3:18 is just beautiful, like thats rare, quality drop back, line is folding, still completes dropback and finds his rhythm, 2 well paced steps forward, sees a player come in out of nowhere unblocked on a late hustle move, appears to pay no attention to it but lightning quick backwards juke(dont call this a sidestep, thats an insult, this shit a raw juke fam) in the pocket sends the rusher flying off into fucktown, resets immediately in his newly formed pocket with more space than he had before the juke, keeps the rhythm and continues to step up as the rush is beginning to work back upfield, sets the feet late in the play but still in the pocket, good feet on the windup and release and follows through with his back hip.

honestly man this kinda stuff gets me excited when i watch most other qbs. jacksons pocket presence is simply incredible, his frame, narrow base, inconsistent motion, and the resulting errant throws and wobbly spirals do draw concern from me, but he at times, and seriously bear with me as im not calling this a 1:1 comparison, has pocket presence that is brady like, his vision of a collapsing pocket without taking his eyes away, his confidence and comfort in the face of a collapsing pocket, the maintaining of the mental clock and the rhythm of his steps when hes climbing the pocket, the subtle sidesteps that make rushers look like ZDS, comfortably making reads, confidently maneuvering the pocket and stepping up/back/to the side etc. its just all incredibly poised and confident looking and natural. and for him to be well aware of how lethal he is with his legs and STILL do this so consistently, like he so often doesnt even consider tucking and running and would rather be patient and play out the pass, is impressive, like really special, you just dont see qbs as explosive and mobile as a lamar jackson who are so willing to pass, michael fucking vick didnt have half the interest lamar has in playing it out in the pocket, jackson is more patient behind the line of scrimmage than vick was in 2010, he has an arm and generational running ability like vick, but patience with his mobility like russell wilson, and honest to god pocket poise thats almost brady like in some ways.

its honestly hard to believe after all these years of flacco, that we have this kind of qb, its so fucking exciting. sorry for gushing, im a little buzzed right now and just really diving into some ravens draft youtube holes right now
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Man! you have me gushing in anticipation as well. And what the heck is up with you and ZDS? :D
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I hate that I'm already having to speak on Lamars weaknesses. The ravens fan base is such a fucking cesspool. Simply point out that flacco looks better throwing the ball in the small snippets of OTAs stirs up a ravenous band of jackals to tell you how fast Lamar Jackson is and how flaccos time is done.

No... it's his team still. And before you sharpen your swords and spread your cheeks for Lamar Jackson, just know that I'm a fan and supporting him, but this isn't axis vs allies here, you don't have to take one side and burn the other...

Why are ravens fans like this?
 
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