Lamar Jackson

[rossihunter2]

I like that Pitt got its project in the 3rd round whereas Ravens spent a 1st on theirs. Granted Jackson has far more upside but project is project.

no a project isnt a project - they're not the same player - Jackson is a better player now and has a higher ceiling and a higher chance of panning out...

not all "projects" are created equal

maybe the only thing they have in common is that they both play qb and were probably good value where they were taken

 

[Adreme]

no a project isnt a project - they're not the same player - Jackson is a better player now and has a higher ceiling and a higher chance of panning out...

not all "projects" are created equal

maybe the only thing they have in common is that they both play qb and were probably good value where they were taken

I figure its really close to 50/50 on Jackson and I don't see a middle ground for him. He either fixes his few core issues (and I worry about coaching accuracy, I honestly might be giving him a better chance due to homer in me) and he becomes the next elite QB in the NFL which hasnt been drafted since Luck OR he doesn't and we long for the days of Boller.

 

[RavenROC]

and a higher chance of panning out...

He's going to be a bigger risk for injury and we've all seen what that can do to a young QB. Plus Mason Rudolph is going to be much less scheme dependent, I realize the Ravens are working "in the lab" etc... but that all raises the complexity of putting the pieces together for him to actually pan out.

Jackson has the talent to put an offense on his back, Rudolph likely doesn't, but a lot of other things have to go right first for that to happen on Sundays

 

[rossihunter2]

I figure its really close to 50/50 on Jackson and I don't see a middle ground for him. He either fixes his few core issues (and I worry about coaching accuracy, I honestly might be giving him a better chance due to homer in me) and he becomes the next elite QB in the NFL which hasnt been drafted since Luck OR he doesn't and we long for the days of Boller.

im not worried about his accuracy - he has a much better adjusted for drops accuracy rating if you go off completion percentage - and if you dont then his accuracy is fine

his core issues are his footwork (which we can see is already improving) and his whippy release (which might not need to change at all)

and i dont see why he couldnt end up being good not great (not that i want that to happen) but i dont see any reason that he would be boom-bust more than any of the other top 5 qbs?

 

[Tank]

3.

no a project isnt a project - they're not the same player - Jackson is a better player now and has a higher ceiling and a higher chance of panning out...

not all "projects" are created equal

maybe the only thing they have in common is that they both play qb and were probably good value where they were taken

Lamar is a gamble that may, or may not pay off. A huge part of his success in college is attributable to the threat of him running and that effect will be greatly reduced in the NFL. I think there’s more work there to be done than you are accounting for and I’m not completely sold on the advantages.

We’ll see how it turn’s out but I think there’s definitely something to be said for taking Rudolph(not as bad as some are saying) in the third in addition to keeping the two top 60 picks we gave up for Jackson.

 

[rossihunter2]

He's going to be a bigger risk for injury and we've all seen what that can do to a young QB. Plus Mason Rudolph is going to be much less scheme dependent, I realize the Ravens are working "in the lab" etc... but that all raises the complexity of putting the pieces together for him to actually pan out.

Jackson has the talent to put an offense on his back, Rudolph likely doesn't, but a lot of other things have to go right first for that to happen on Sundays

and i dont know what you've been watching on film but rudolph is clearly reliant on scheme and jackson had pro-concepts embedded in his Louisville offence already - this idea that jackson's transition is going to be more difficult than for other qbs in this class is insane to me - he needs to learn how to take snaps from under centre and he needs to adjust his footwork accordingly but beyond that he already has a pro-skillset and some of the tools from college to adjust well to the pro game

rudolph on the other hand has inherent flaws that are problematic for his potential transition to the nfl - lack of arm strength, lack of reading the field and going through progressions, system-dependent qb throws, tendency to throw off his back foot when he has time to step up (remind you of anyone?)

to me rudolph's skillset suggests he could be a decent backup in the league and may eventually become an average starter but no better and his transition wont be easy or quick

 

[rossihunter2]

3.

Lamar is a gamble that may, or may not pay off. A huge part of his success in college is attributable to the threat of him running and that effect will be greatly reduced in the NFL. I think there’s more work there to be done than you are accounting for and I’m not completely sold on the advantages.

We’ll see how it turn’s out but I think there’s definitely something to be said for taking Rudolph(not as bad as some are saying) in the third in addition to keeping the two top 60 picks we gave up for Jackson.

i just dont see rudolph as a good qb prospect - there's a reason he was around in the 3rd round - he's more of a "project" than lamar by quite some distance and he doesnt have the ceiling either

and almost any of the first round qbs are a gamble - i dont see jackson as any more of a gamble than josh allen who was taken at the 7th pick with only aj mccarron ahead of him at qb for example...

obviously there's work to be done on jackson reading and learning to manipulate NFL defences from the pocket but he's going to be treated as a running threat in the NFL too and it would be crazy not to account for that also even when he's not actually running

 

[Adreme]

im not worried about his accuracy - he has a much better adjusted for drops accuracy rating if you go off completion percentage - and if you dont then his accuracy is fine

his core issues are his footwork (which we can see is already improving) and his whippy release (which might not need to change at all)

and i dont see why he couldnt end up being good not great (not that i want that to happen) but i dont see any reason that he would be boom-bust more than any of the other top 5 qbs?

I am when it comes to throwing outside. To TEs he seems accurate, but even at rookie camp he missed outside. If they fix that he will be elite, if not he will fail.

 

[Sami84]

What I find amusing is John Harbaugh saying how accurate he is and I saw misses and reporters saw plenty too.

When it comes to a rolling eyes emoji, harbaugh and praise of a rookie fall in line.

 

[Jacquouille]

What I find amusing is John Harbaugh saying how accurate he is and I saw misses and reporters saw plenty too.

When it comes to a rolling eyes emoji, harbaugh and praise of a rookie fall in line.

Take both with a grain of salt. Yes, Harbs is overexagerating as usual but incompletions are to be expected when you throw new routes to new targets. That's what always happen at the Senior Bowl for example.

 

[Tank]

i just dont see rudolph as a good qb prospect - there's a reason he was around in the 3rd round - he's more of a "project" than lamar by quite some distance and he doesnt have the ceiling either

and almost any of the first round qbs are a gamble - i dont see jackson as any more of a gamble than josh allen who was taken at the 7th pick with only aj mccarron ahead of him at qb for example...

obviously there's work to be done on jackson reading and learning to manipulate NFL defences from the pocket but he's going to be treated as a running threat in the NFL too and it would be crazy not to account for that also even when he's not actually running

He’s not built(see Bob3) to be a consistent running threat in the NFL. If he’s going to be an NFL franchise QB he’ll need to adapt his game.

 

[RavensMania]

Also the worst

So was Manziel

 

[rossihunter2]

He’s not built(see Bob3) to be a consistent running threat in the NFL. If he’s going to be an NFL franchise QB he’ll need to adapt his game.

my point is that even if his amount of running declines he will always likely have that skillset which means teams will have to account for that mobility which means he will always have the bonus of facing defences with a different attitude because they cant afford not to take the running into account because if they do then he can and will run

and he's not built to be a running back but that doesnt mean he's not built to be a running threat... as long as he learns how to mitigate large contacts and learns when to slide his frame is not gonna be so much of an issue

if anything his frame is going to be more of a problem for when he gets repeatedly smashed in the pocket...

he's always going to be a running threat in the NFL even if he's not running

 

[Tank]

my point is that even if his amount of running declines he will always likely have that skillset which means teams will have to account for that mobility which means he will always have the bonus of facing defences with a different attitude because they cant afford not to take the running into account because if they do then he can and will run

and he's not built to be a running back but that doesnt mean he's not built to be a running threat... as long as he learns how to mitigate large contacts and learns when to slide his frame is not gonna be so much of an issue

if anything his frame is going to be more of a problem for when he gets repeatedly smashed in the pocket...

he's always going to be a running threat in the NFL even if he's not running

I don’t want my franchise QB running except to escape pressure. It’s not their job and it’s the rare instance where the risk justifies the results. Mobile, yes, but not a runner. Running has been a huge part of Lamar’s game and it’s worrisome. And yes, he is slight of build for an NFL QB.

 

[rossihunter2]

I don’t want my franchise QB running except to escape pressure. It’s not their job and it’s the rare instance where the risk justifies the results. Mobile, yes, but not a runner. Running has been a huge part of Lamar’s game and it’s worrisome. And yes, he is slight of build for an NFL QB.

i guess then we are going to disagree - i dont see anything in the league that suggests to me that running should not be a part of a franchise qb's game - he should be a threat as a pocket passer, and he should be a threat when off script and scrambling but he can and will also be a threat as a designed runner

but i suppose it's clear that philosophically we are fairly opposed on that issue

 

[RavensMania]

I don’t want my franchise QB running except to escape pressure. It’s not their job and it’s the rare instance where the risk justifies the results. Mobile, yes, but not a runner. Running has been a huge part of Lamar’s game and it’s worrisome. And yes, he is slight of build for an NFL QB.

Actually RG3 never got injured on a designed runs. He was injured when scrambling or escaping pressure because he refused to learn how to slide and protect himself.

I don’t have an issue if we use him in designed runs, just so the opposing teams have to prepare for the possibility we will run them. I don’t want the, running them as often as the skins did wirh RG3 though.

 

[Tank]

Actually RG3 never got injured on a designed runs. He was injured when scrambling or escaping pressure because he refused to learn how to slide and protect himself.

I don’t have an issue if we use him in designed runs, just so the opposing teams have to prepare for the possibility we will run them. I don’t want the, running them as often as the skins did wirh RG3 though.

Mentioned Bob only because he and Lamar are basically the exact same build.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Mentioned Bob only because he and Lamar are basically the exact same build.

Bob and Lamar are actually quite different as far as prospects go. Lamar actually has the ability to become a pass first QB.. And the only reason he wasn't in college is because he had absolutely no one to help him whatsoever.

I hate run first guys too. Jackson probably isn't gonna be that at the pro level. The dude can throw and had passing traits coming out of school RGIII wishes he had

 

[Tank]

i guess then we are going to disagree - i dont see anything in the league that suggests to me that running should not be a part of a franchise qb's game - he should be a threat as a pocket passer, and he should be a threat when off script and scrambling but he can and will also be a threat as a designed runner

but i suppose it's clear that philosophically we are fairly opposed on that issue

Yep, seems we are. I guess I could see the point if you have more than one QB that you trust and a ton of weapons surrounding them, but for me you are resigning to that player being expendable. It happens too often, running or not, to not be recognized as an increased risk.

 

[Tank]

Bob and Lamar are actually quite different as far as prospects go. Lamar actually has the ability to become a pass first QB.. And the only reason he wasn't in college is because he had absolutely no one to help him whatsoever.

I hate run first guys too. Jackson probably isn't gonna be that at the pro level. The dude can throw and had passing traits coming out of school RGIII wishes he had

Same build, as in their bodies. lol 6’2” 215 give or take.

What you say could be true, but no one has any idea how his game will translate when the designed runs are removed. Not saying he won’t be a good one, it’s just not the guaranteed deal some seem to think it is.