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Lamar Jackson

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Crazy how yall underestimate people lol.. being under qualified dnt mean you cant do the job or get the job done..
Nope. But it means you've probably done the job before, have some experience doing parts of the job, and just aren't some bum off the street who's doing the job because you're a family member of somebody else.

There's a reason why I don't go to Craigslist to find legal advice...

This is the real world. People generally gotta earn stuff. Hard work. Knowledge. Skills. This isn't a handout.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Agreed. I just recall fans having very little understanding of salary cap and how contract structures worked back then (and many still don't), and all anybody seemed to care about was the average salary.

I'm the biggest proponent of that being one of the worst contract structures I've seen this organization do, BUT, in their defense, they were, somewhat, trying to (unrealistically) run it back. Like there were a lot of people who thought the 2013 Ravens were going to be a really good team. And that 2014 team was pretty good. If Flacco's cap number is $5M higher, which it probably should have been, is that team as good? I doubt it. I don't even know that Steve Smith is there.

If they in fact were trying to run it back, why get rid of Boldin for peanuts over $2M?
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Nope. But it means you've probably done the job before, have some experience doing parts of the job, and just aren't some bum off the street who's doing the job because you're a family member of somebody else.

There's a reason why I don't go to Craigslist to find legal advice...

This is the real world. People generally gotta earn stuff. Hard work. Knowledge. Skills. This isn't a handout.
Lmaoo ohh so youre upset that she doesnt have the real credentials on paper to rep her son? Ok gotcha
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Lmaoo ohh so youre upset that she doesnt have the real credentials on paper to rep her son? Ok gotcha
Nope, I couldn't care less who represents him. I just think its funny when some people get all butt hurt when I suggest that maybe, just maybe, the Ravens may not take his mother seriously as a contract negotiator. Goes without saying that they may view her differently than some of the other agents who have done dozens of these deals and done them successfully.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
If they in fact were trying to run it back, why get rid of Boldin for peanuts over $2M?
Probably because they didn't view Boldin nearly as high as fans did, which isn't exactly surprising.

FWIW, Boldin wasn't this like weekly stud, highly effective regular season WR either. Like he had some big playoff moments, but he wasn't this like alpha-stud in the regular season.

I find a lot of the Boldin whining to be ironic and not just a little hypocritical to be honest. For two examples:
1. Fans couldn't believe that we let Boldin walk for $2M, yet were outraged that we paid Joe $2M more than market value. So $2M is chump change in scenario one, but a ton in scenario two. Hard to reconcile that one.
2. Fans had major problems with us paying market value to Pitta, based largely on better postseason play than regular season play, but yet somehow were OK with us doing that with Boldin. Again, hard to reconcile that one.

I never lost any sleep over the Boldin departure. It lasted one season. People thought it set the franchise back for a decade and are still all butt hurt about it. There was no scenario possible where he was here beyond 2013. And there's nobody who thinks that adding Boldin to the 2013 roster makes them a good team.

On paper in the preseason? Maybe. Not once we started playing games. The FO whiffed on too many other players that offseason for that team to be relevant.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Probably because they didn't view Boldin nearly as high as fans did, which isn't exactly surprising.

FWIW, Boldin wasn't this like weekly stud, highly effective regular season WR either. Like he had some big playoff moments, but he wasn't this like alpha-stud in the regular season.

I find a lot of the Boldin whining to be ironic and not just a little hypocritical to be honest. For two examples:
1. Fans couldn't believe that we let Boldin walk for $2M, yet were outraged that we paid Joe $2M more than market value. So $2M is chump change in scenario one, but a ton in scenario two. Hard to reconcile that one.
2. Fans had major problems with us paying market value to Pitta, based largely on better postseason play than regular season play, but yet somehow were OK with us doing that with Boldin. Again, hard to reconcile that one.

I never lost any sleep over the Boldin departure. It lasted one season. People thought it set the franchise back for a decade and are still all butt hurt about it. There was no scenario possible where he was here beyond 2013. And there's nobody who thinks that adding Boldin to the 2013 roster makes them a good team.

On paper in the preseason? Maybe. Not once we started playing games. The FO whiffed on too many other players that offseason for that team to be relevant.

Umm.. yeah this is a little crazy ASF for me. Boldin had been HUGE in that playoff run, and it wasn't like he was asking for a pay raise; he just didn't want to take a pay decrease, which hell, who would with how he had just performed in the lead up to the Super Bowl/in the Super Bowl? He was Flacco's favorite, or second favorite, targets and he was finally being put to good use as an inside guy. So essentially, I find your post to be BS. And you're right; one of the players they whiffed on was Pitta, who grew into an old man very, very quickly
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Umm.. yeah this is a little crazy ASF for me. Boldin had been HUGE in that playoff run, and it wasn't like he was asking for a pay raise; he just didn't want to take a pay decrease, which hell, who would with how he had just performed in the lead up to the Super Bowl/in the Super Bowl? He was Flacco's favorite, or second favorite, targets and he was finally being put to good use as an inside guy. So essentially, I find your post to be BS. And you're right; one of the players they whiffed on was Pitta, who grew into an old man very, very quickly
My point exactly though. The Ravens never thought they were going to get playoff Boldin for all of 2013. Hell, they didn't get playoff Boldin for all of 2012 either. If teams start paying players based on how they perform only in playoff games, there's going to be a TON of bad contracts handed out by a lot of teams.

Like people need to realize... he was a 60 yard per game player here. His average game was 4 catches. And he didn't score a lot either. I don't blame them for how they treated it. He was like a 32-33 year old receiver, clearly on the back end of his career, and the team was in cap hell. The problem wasn't that they let him leave. The problem was that they basically didn't try, or couldn't try, to replace him, in 2013. Once 2014 arrives, it's moot, because Steve Smith comes in.

People act like because somebody was critical to you winning a SB that they deserve a lifetime membership on the roster club. It don't work that way. No NFL team or business would be successful that way.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Nope, I couldn't care less who represents him. I just think its funny when some people get all butt hurt when I suggest that maybe, just maybe, the Ravens may not take his mother seriously as a contract negotiator. Goes without saying that they may view her differently than some of the other agents who have done dozens of these deals and done them successfully.
Thats the thing, they dnt have to take her seriously.. once she come in with their asking price, they gotta respect it..
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
@rmcjacket23 I've heard so many people say Boldin and Smith would've been great together, yet we never would have had them both on the same roster. I never understood that point.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Thats the thing, they dnt have to take her seriously.. once she come in with their asking price, they gotta respect it..

I’m curious why your so fixated on Lamar and his mom doing this all by themselves? Even in past negotiations were Athletes successfully negotiated contracts without agents, they all had “competent advisors”. To this point it doesn’t sound like Lamar is going that route

The Ravens already know the asking price. It’s pretty obvious, based on historical data, Lamar will get 40-45 Mil a year with Garuntees between 115-130. Now all that’s left really is the intricacies of the deal that Lamar’s mom could struggle with because she doesn’t speak the language of sports agents, lawyers, CBA, etc..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
I’m curious why your so fixated on Lamar and his mom doing this all by themselves? Even in past negotiations were Athletes successfully negotiated contracts without agents, they all had “competent advisors”. To this point it doesn’t sound like Lamar is going that route

The Ravens already know the asking price. It’s pretty obvious, based on historical data, Lamar will get 40-45 Mil a year with Garuntees between 115-130. Now all that’s left really is the intricacies of the deal that Lamar’s mom could struggle with because she doesn’t speak the language of sports agents, lawyers, CBA, etc..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Im not fixated on them doing it by themselves, its the fact that people are saying they will get screwed over or what now because they arent agent themselves..im sure once the contract is written up, they will get someone to look over it. Im actually happy at the same time though cause its something id do and im 100% sure there isnt no getting over on me and i have no experience whatsoever with that. People acting like he is repping himself in a murder investigation or something
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
@rmcjacket23 I've heard so many people say Boldin and Smith would've been great together, yet we never would have had them both on the same roster. I never understood that point.
Correct. That would not have made sense from a roster construction standpoint, or a monetary one. It's not like we went on a spending spree prior to 2014 either.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Im not fixated on them doing it by themselves, its the fact that people are saying they will get screwed over or what now because they arent agent themselves..im sure once the contract is written up, they will get someone to look over it. Im actually happy at the same time though cause its something id do and im 100% sure there isnt no getting over on me and i have no experience whatsoever with that. People acting like he is repping himself in a murder investigation or something
Right but the "somebody to look over it" will be a lawyer who will mostly explain the language to him, not fight for his best interests or even necessarily tell him whether its a good deal or not.

People are pretending like the only thing that matters in the deal is the average salary and how long it is. Frankly, those are almost irrelevant. They could sign him for 20 years at $1 billion, and it could really be one year for $5M. The details are what's important. He needs to be able to understand when he's getting his money. Is it in bonuses or salary? How does it impact the team salary cap? Are the guarantees for injury-only or are they fully guaranteed? Are there player, team, or roster options/bonuses?

I can tell you right now... there's like gigantic levels of complexities in Mahomes deal. And I guarantee you personally would not have the intellectual capability to understand it. If I showed you a summary of it, you probably would have a difficult time explaining it. And that's just the summary. There's roster/team bonuses every year. Some of them vest 2-3 years prior to them getting paid. He needs to understand how those work and the details of them. And so does whoever is "representing him".

This isn't going to be like "you pay me $40M every year for 5 years" and poof we're done. Won't happen that way. And if he or his mom thinks or wants that, then they won't get a deal, and he'll delay getting paid even longer.

Again, there's a reason why most players use agents. And it's not because they like giving money away or don't know any better. They just don't want to spend the time understanding these things.

In a macro sense, I don't think Lamar is going to get "screwed over" in the sense of him not getting as much money as he wants, or not getting the contract length he wants. I do think, however, its entirely possible that the Ravens will structure the deal to their benefit, i.e. give themselves several "outs" in the deal that would allow them to move on quickly if there's issues with health or production. And those are the types of things where I think most agents would be wise enough to push back on and not allow.
 
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A good contract lawyer can do all those things. Sure there’s complexities but it hardly the most complex contract a top contract lawyer would face. I’ve negotiated many multi million dollar contacts where the lawyer lays out the position and I fight to get them to agree to it as close as possible. Whether she’s any good at that I have no idea, I guess we will find out.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
A good contract lawyer can do all those things. Sure there’s complexities but it hardly the most complex contract a top contract lawyer would face. I’ve negotiated many multi million dollar contacts where the lawyer lays out the position and I fight to get them to agree to it as close as possible. Whether she’s any good at that I have no idea, I guess we will find out.
Right, but the contract lawyer isn't going to negotiate for you. If he is, then he's basically acting as an agent, which means he's going to want a lot more $ from you to do it. And the point of not using an agent is, largely, to save $.
 
Right, but the contract lawyer isn't going to negotiate for you. If he is, then he's basically acting as an agent, which means he's going to want a lot more $ from you to do it. And the point of not using an agent is, largely, to save $.
Yeah that was my point, she’s going to have do that part but with expert advice guiding her.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Right, but the contract lawyer isn't going to negotiate for you. If he is, then he's basically acting as an agent, which means he's going to want a lot more $ from you to do it. And the point of not using an agent is, largely, to save $.
The contract lawyer doesnt have to negotiate.. it doesnt take any special training nor schooling to be good at negotiating.. they can negotiate the terms and just pay a lawyer waaaaay less than they would an agent just to look over it.. its really that simple....
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
The contract lawyer doesnt have to negotiate.. it doesnt take any special training nor schooling to be good at negotiating.. they can negotiate the terms and just pay a lawyer waaaaay less than they would an agent just to look over it.. its really that simple....
Nope, it doesn't. But it doesn't mean that any old schmuck off the street can be good at negotiating either. Breathing isn't the only qualification to make you good at it.
 
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