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Lamar Jackson

RavensMania said:
tell me about it, but overall he had a pretty low drop ratio. No question he would get into his own head. No way he could have been a cb or a kicker. lol
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Dropped passes? Thinking he led the league in uncontested body drops to the ground. lol
 
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gtalk12 said:
I am not sure how many times we can talk about the same thing. Lamar will sign when the time comes.
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Becuase the Browns screwed everything up. The contract was fairly straight forward and everyone agreed he was worth something similar to the top market deals. Then the Browns decided to set a whole new precedent. From Lamar’s perspective, no reason that shouldn’t be his starting point.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Becuase the Browns screwed everything up. The contract was fairly straight forward and everyone agreed he was worth something similar to the top market deals. Then the Browns decided to set a whole new precedent. From Lamar’s perspective, no reason that shouldn’t be his starting point.
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...which is why the Browns did what they did with Watson. They had a ton of cap space and knew that going thru with that deal would make them better, if it works, and make it difficult for us - now - and the Bungles - later - to sign their franchise QB's. It was quite a stroke of gamesmanship, in reality. Both of their competition's QB's are going to come at a price they knew was going to be difficult to afford as it stood. They just made it more expensive.

As much as I love Lamar and would love to see him a Raven for life, I'd pass if it cripples the team. I loved Ed Reed. If a Safety had gotten some blockbuster deal that set the market arbitrarily high just before his big contract and it was him or 3 other players, I would have passed on him too. It hurts to say that, but that's truth. One player doesn't make a team.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
...which is why the Browns did what they did with Watson. They had a ton of cap space and knew that going thru with that deal would make them better, if it works, and make it difficult for us - now - and the Bungles - later - to sign their franchise QB's. It was quite a stroke of gamesmanship, in reality. Both of their competition's QB's are going to come at a price they knew was going to be difficult to afford as it stood. They just made it more expensive.

As much as I love Lamar and would love to see him a Raven for life, I'd pass if it cripples the team. I loved Ed Reed. If a Safety had gotten some blockbuster deal that set the market arbitrarily high just before his big contract and it was him or 3 other players, I would have passed on him too. It hurts to say that, but that's truth. One player doesn't make a team.
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I doubt they were thinking about that when they gave Watson his contract. They just wanted to have the best offer.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
We'll have to disagree, then. There was as much design as there was desire, imo. Maybe more design.
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This is totally wrong. The Browns extended Watson a regular option having no gamesmanship at all that he rejected publicly.

Then in order to not lose out on him they came back with an entirely different and crazy offer he couldn't refuse. That no one could refuse honestly.

If it was planned it would have happened at the onset not a panic mode desperation move.
 
UPennChem said:
This is totally wrong. The Browns extended Watson a regular option having no gamesmanship at all that he rejected publicly.

Then in order to not lose out on him they came back with an entirely different and crazy offer he couldn't refuse. That no one could refuse honestly.

If it was planned it would have happened at the onset not a panic mode desperation move.
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I'll have to disagree here too. They knew all along what they could do. Making a smaller offer is a part of the game. But knowing what they we're willing to do and then executing it and in the process weakening the competition is the basis of attempting to do it in the first place. The fallout of their blockbuster offer had to have been predicted as a byproduct, and as such, a known benefit of going to that level of pay to acquire him.

My evidence for this belief, every article written by anyone who knows anything was shocked at how much they gave to get him. Watson was an albatross to the Texans and it was widely believed before THAT deal that they'd be lucky to get a ham sandwich because of all his baggage. Instead they got ten pounds of gold from the golden goose when likely nothing near that was really on the table.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
I'll have to disagree here too. They knew all along what they could do. Making a smaller offer is a part of the game. But knowing what they we're willing to do and then executing it and in the process weakening the competition is the basis of attempting to do it in the first place. The fallout of their blockbuster offer had to have been predicted as a byproduct, and as such, a known benefit of going to that level of pay to acquire him.

My evidence for this belief, every article written by anyone who knows anything was shocked at how much they gave to get him. Watson was an albatross to the Texans and it was widely believed before THAT deal that they'd be lucky to get a ham sandwich because of all his baggage. Instead they got ten pounds of gold from the golden goose when likely nothing near that was really on the table.
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This is just so inconsistent to me. Help me understand. In this scenario you see it like this?

The Browns come in with a low offer to Watson.
They expect him to not take the low ball offer.
They then initiate their scheme of mega offer to fuck the Ravens and Bengals? I just don't see how any of this makes sense.

The Browns ran the Baker Mayfield experiment. It didn't work and they wanted to upgrade. They made Watson an offer. Honestly it was probably a decent one. His whole situation is uncertain its kinda hard to know exactly what his value is. Will be suspended, hasn't played in a while. Had his own issues even while he was playing.

Watson said I'm not playing in Cleveland for that offer. At that point Baker had totally soured on the Browns and requested he be shipped outta there. So in order to not find themselves in a situation with no QB whatsoever, they offer Watson something stupid.

Truly I believe they were scrambling to save their asses. It just so happens to be a consequence that they reset the QB market.
 
UPennChem said:
This is just so inconsistent to me. Help me understand. In this scenario you see it like this?

The Browns come in with a low offer to Watson.
They expect him to not take the low ball offer.
They then initiate their scheme of mega offer to fuck the Ravens and Bengals? I just don't see how any of this makes sense.

The Browns ran the Baker Mayfield experiment. It didn't work and they wanted to upgrade. They made Watson an offer. Honestly it was probably a decent one. His whole situation is uncertain its kinda hard to know exactly what his value is. Will be suspended, hasn't played in a while. Had his own issues even while he was playing.

Watson said I'm not playing in Cleveland for that offer. At that point Baker had totally soured on the Browns and requested he be shipped outta there. So in order to not find themselves in a situation with no QB whatsoever, they offer Watson something stupid.

Truly I believe they were scrambling to save their asses. It just so happens to be a consequence that they reset the QB market.
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No, I don't believe they were a low-balling. I do believe they were players in the game and knew they had a nuclear alternative. And not hesitating from using that nuclear alternative because they knew the impact on their rivals' situation with re-signing franchise QB's. Calling it a scheme makes it seem as though they were just throwing money away. They did no such thing. They merely insured they got what they wanted - when they could - and in doing so harmed their rivals.

It didn't start out as a scheme to fuck the Ravens or Bengals, but the knowledge that what they were doing was going to affect us and the Bengals in keeping/paying for their franchise guys HAD to be in their decision making process. Otherwise it's just a stupid purchase like a house going for twice the asking price just because the buyer "had to have it." If it boils down to that - which is not what I'm saying, then they're dopier than we all think. The fact that that contract wouldn't help us or the Bengals certainly wasn't any kind of deterent in them making the deal so it stands to reason it was likely something that contributed to them making such a wild deal.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
No, I don't believe they were a low-balling. I do believe they were players in the game and knew they had a nuclear alternative. And not hesitating from using that nuclear alternative because they knew the impact on their rivals' situation with re-signing franchise QB's. Calling it a scheme makes it seem as though they were just throwing money away. They did no such thing. They merely insured they got what they wanted - when they could - and in doing so harmed their rivals.

It didn't start out as a scheme to fuck the Ravens or Bengals, but the knowledge that what they were doing was going to affect us and the Bengals in keeping/paying for their franchise guys HAD to be in their decision making process. Otherwise it's just a stupid purchase like a house going for twice the asking price just because the buyer "had to have it." If it boils down to that - which is not what I'm saying, then they're dopier than we all think. The fact that that contract wouldn't help us or the Bengals certainly wasn't any kind of deterent in them making the deal so it stands to reason it was likely something that contributed to them making such a wild deal.
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I think they were thinking of themselves first and how it effected us was simply a positive consequence for them. Rather than something that factored into the decision making process. But obviously to each their own!
 
drjohnnyfever said:
I'll have to disagree here too. They knew all along what they could do. Making a smaller offer is a part of the game. But knowing what they we're willing to do and then executing it and in the process weakening the competition is the basis of attempting to do it in the first place. The fallout of their blockbuster offer had to have been predicted as a byproduct, and as such, a known benefit of going to that level of pay to acquire him.

My evidence for this belief, every article written by anyone who knows anything was shocked at how much they gave to get him. Watson was an albatross to the Texans and it was widely believed before THAT deal that they'd be lucky to get a ham sandwich because of all his baggage. Instead they got ten pounds of gold from the golden goose when likely nothing near that was really on the table.
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Just so we're clear... pretty much any article written you'll find would tell you that the compensation the Texans got from the Browns were largely standard compared to what the Falcons, Saints, and others were offering. It's not like the going rate for him was a 4th rounder and the Browns offered like 3 first rounders. The compensation was fairly straight forward. If it wasn't, the Texans never do the deal.

What wasn't standard was the contract offer the Browns made Watson. The key detail is that Watson had a no-trade clause with the Texans. Meaning his approval of the deal is just as important as the Texans. Watson never goes to the Browns unless they make him an offer he can't refuse. He ultimately doesn't care about the draft pick comp the Texans get.
 
As long as Jackson both want to be active on social media and at the same time be extremely enigmatic with his contract talkd and his OTA decisions, it is the media's job to whip up a storm of speculations.
If he doesn't like that, then go the Flacco route and stay off the net. Or start giving direct responses to these issues.
Can't have it both ways
 
marklar said:
As long as Jackson both want to be active on social media and at the same time be extremely enigmatic with his contract talkd and his OTA decisions, it is the media's job to whip up a storm of speculations.
If he doesn't like that, then go the Flacco route and stay off the net. Or start giving direct responses to these issues.
Can't have it both ways
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Jackson owns nearly all the leverage and can do as he pleases. There is also no reason for Lamar to settle for anything less than Watson, so no real reason for him to make a public statement. We know what the price is now, then Ravens have two years together figure out if he is worth all those guarantees. Spoiler alert he is not , no one is
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Jackson owns nearly all the leverage and can do as he pleases. There is also no reason for Lamar to settle for anything less than Watson, so no real reason for him to make a public statement. We know what the price is now, then Ravens have two years together figure out if he is worth all those guarantees. Spoiler alert he is not , no one is
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guarantees or not, unless jackson has a devastating injury it's not like he won't reach the end of his extension.
 
Yeah Ravens probably see it in their interest to wait for other QBs to sign now. I remember everyone saying after Cousins deal that it was the start of fully guaranteed contracts, it never panned out that way. I get it was a shorter dea in that case but contracts largely went back to their normal structure. Lamar does carry a higher injury risk than other QBs so a fully guaranteed contract like Watson's is a huge gamble.
 
airconteka said:
Yeah Ravens probably see it in their interest to wait for other QBs to sign now. I remember everyone saying after Cousins deal that it was the start of fully guaranteed contracts, it never panned out that way. I get it was a shorter dea in that case but contracts largely went back to their normal structure. Lamar does carry a higher injury risk than other QBs so a fully guaranteed contract like Watson's is a huge gamble.
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That is why were are kinda fucked. With Cousins, the Vikings didn't win and he didn't truly earn his contract (although I am higher on him than the average person tbh)
With Deshon, we won't even know until next year if it works out with the Browns, but by then we will have to pay Lamar. We saw the Jags give Kirk 20+ mil, what's to stop the Jets from putting a 300 mil for Lamar?
 
airconteka said:
Yeah Ravens probably see it in their interest to wait for other QBs to sign now. I remember everyone saying after Cousins deal that it was the start of fully guaranteed contracts, it never panned out that way. I get it was a shorter dea in that case but contracts largely went back to their normal structure. Lamar does carry a higher injury risk than other QBs so a fully guaranteed contract like Watson's is a huge gamble.
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I’m sure the injury risk is part of their hesitation but I imagine one of the hold ups is also having $250 million in escrow. Definitely not good for business from an owners perspective
 
UPennChem said:
I think they were thinking of themselves first and how it effected us was simply a positive consequence for them. Rather than something that factored into the decision making process. But obviously to each their own!
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What you're saying here is likely so. But their desire to have him and their desire to cripple what other teams, especially in their own division can do NOW had to be in their minds. It was not a "throw money at it" problem, imo. They got into it knowing they could get a better QB than what they had, played the negotiations game, lost, and then nuked FA by guaranteeing a ridiculous short term contract. Plus all the draft capital they sent to Houston...

Almost every article outside the Land of Cleve has panned this deal. They had the money to do it, they have a competitive team that'll compete, and they could screw the division in the short term... Why not?! It's a short term win for them.
 
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