Lamar Jackson

[RavensMania]

*GASP*....... here come all the Lamar lovers to defend their lover

did you notice what BoredMarine did in his post. He actually gave reasons, something that you never do. He's right on many of his posts and you know what. Lamar is the type of player to take all of the blame as well. There are so QBs that throw the blame around to the rest of the team, he's not one of them.

I still believe we win the first game vs the Titans back in 2019 if his receivers catch the damn ball, but lets not forget the Titans were the hottest team in the league the last half of the season. Sure we won out after week 4, but the Titans were the team that matched up extremely well against us.

 

[BoredMarine13]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.

I'm not trying to say Lamar is infallible or that Lamar has played great in the playoffs. I tend to think the Bills game is a little overrated due to the one critical interception. I view the Chargers game as simply worse from Lamar, but I digress.

What I'm saying is that Lamar has had to be THE guy and that the team hasn't exactly consistently stepped up around him and helped shoulder the load if he's not having a great day.

I referenced the Joe Flacco vs New England playoff game as an example of what I mean-

Joe was downright abysmal. Like, you'd have been better off not having him throw a single pass. He was actively a detriment in that game. But the Ravens won by 19 because the running game was so dominant.

If Lamar isn't producing at a high level, he hasn't had guys that consistently bailed him out in the passing game or a running game that came through to carry him. He's pretty much had to be on point or the team sputters.

And again, that isn't to say he's been perfect, because he hasn't been. It's just to say that the level of responsibility assigned to Lamar is higher than that of when Joe was quarterbacking and holding their playoff resumes to the same standards isn't totally fair.

Yea I agree with your thoughts if your including the regular season. And I agree Joe never had to elevate to the level Lamar has to win games. I don't like Flacco comparisons because Flacco was never anywhere near the skill level of Lamar, so of course he needed to lean heavier on those around them, but lets not pretend like we didn't curtail the offense to be more favorable to Lamar.

Also its frustrating because the arguments were having about Lamar now are the same ones we had about Joe 10 years ago, its like Deja vu when we would ignore the faults of Flacco and prop him up no matter what.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Both quarterbacks situations are completely different. While Joe could sit there and just not mess up, the other actually has to produce for the team to have success.

I think this best explains what I'm trying to say.

I know people fondly remember Joe because he was winning a lot (he's second in wins for his first five years in the playoffs), but will completely ignore that he wasn't an active participant in those wins for three years, sans the Chiefs game. I'd argue the Chiefs and Patriots games were the only two games in his first four years where it felt like he played well and those were games 6 and 9 of the playoffs for Joe.

But the same way certain posters view the love for Lamar is the exact way that they are toward Joe.

I'm a troll to a certain Joe fanatic because I had the audacity to want to hold Joe to a higher standard from 2016 onward and suggest that he wasn't doing enough in the regular season.

But they'll turn around and hold Lamar to an even higher standard.

It's hypocrisy.

 

[BoredMarine13]

I still believe we win the first game vs the Titans back in 2019 if his receivers catch the damn ball,

So many what Ifs from that game that are haunting. Still hurts lol

 

[RavensMania]

It's really hard to compare Lamar to older Quarterbacks because the NFL is so different.

Like Joe was an above average regular season QB who had high highs and low lows. His best attribute was playing really clutch in the playoffs. During that era of the NFL (literally over a decade ago) defense was what won championships. So Joe really took advantage of our strong defense and running game and played lights out as QB. His historic performances that postseason is a huge reason we won the SB.

In Lamar's Era it's really different. Lamar is a tremendously better regular season QB compared to Flacco, but he's not been as good in the post season. I think it's fair to say that there's been a shift to defenses win championships to offenses win championships. With that being said, if Lamar wants to continue to build his resume so that one day he's in the HOF, he's gotta just totally become the guy that runs an offense capable of beating even the best teams.

The awesome part is he's never looked more up to that task than he has so far this year. And imagine if we can get some help from Stanley, JK, Gus, Kolar, Boyle, and Proche to add to what's he's already been doing.

I don't know if I can completely agree with your statement that there has been a shift that offenses win championships now. I absolutely agree that a better offense will get you to the playoffs, but in the playoffs, having a good defense is extremely important. Just look at the last five years

Rams stopped the Bengals -- defense
TB beat the Chiefs (great defense getting to Mahomes with a 4 man pass rush)
KC over the Niners (defense stymied these teams for much of the game until Mahomes and his offense succeeded
NE over the Rams --- defense
Philly over New England -- there was absolutely no defense in this game

 

[OURavensFan]

This thread is just one big love letter to Lamar and people who criticize him in any way are called mindless trolls as to not disrupt the love affair going on for him. He’d be so touched reading all your notes

Dude we have a perennial MVP QB, what’s not to like. He’s better than Burrow but Bengal fans don’t agree

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Yea I agree with your thoughts if your including the regular season. And I agree Joe never had to elevate to the level Lamar has to win games. I don't like Flacco comparisons because Flacco was never anywhere near the skill level of Lamar, so of course he needed to lean heavier on those around them, but lets not pretend like we didn't curtail the offense to be more favorable to Lamar.

Also its frustrating because the arguments were having about Lamar now are the same ones we had about Joe 10 years ago, its like Deja vu when we would ignore the faults of Flacco and prop him up no matter what.

Lamar certainly needs to show that regular season Lamar can also be playoff Lamar consistently, but as you alluded to- the team just hasn't consistently been there for him. I don't view this as a black and white Lamar failed because the Ravens lost- I look at it as the Ravens have had shortcomings as a team that need to be fixed, Lamar included.

 

[BoredMarine13]

Dude we have a perennial MVP QB, what’s not to like. He’s better than Burrow but Bengal fans don’t agree

Who ya got tonight? Dare I put $200 on the Dolphins and Tua?

 

[rossihunter2]

So many what Ifs from that game that are haunting. Still hurts lol

literally - there's a bunch of drops where you can look at them and say, maybe even just one of those turning into a catch changes the entire game

or both the 4th and 1s

 

[rossihunter2]

Lamar certainly needs to show that regular season Lamar can also be playoff Lamar consistently, but as you alluded to- the team just hasn't consistently been there for him. I don't view this as a black and white Lamar failed because the Ravens lost- I look at it as the Ravens have had shortcomings as a team that need to be fixed, Lamar included.

it's also a tiny sample size - we're apparently making sweeping judgements of lamar because of 4 games (3 really because the titans win he was absolutely fine)

 

[UPennChem]

I don't know if I can completely agree with your statement that there has been a shift that offenses win championships now. I absolutely agree that a better offense will get you to the playoffs, but in the playoffs, having a good defense is extremely important. Just look at the last five years

Rams stopped the Bengals -- defense
TB beat the Chiefs (great defense getting to Mahomes with a 4 man pass rush)
KC over the Niners (defense stymied these teams for much of the game until Mahomes and his offense succeeded
NE over the Rams --- defense
Philly over New England -- there was absolutely no defense in this game

I can respect this. Defense is what wins close games. There are examples of all situations. As you said no defense of any kind in the Philly NE game. But the LA, NE game was exclusively defense. It's more likely than not just a combination of matchups and injury status.

The greater point I was making though, for the most part the days where good defense are consistently keeping teams under 20 is gone. You need to put up a lot points to win.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

it's also a tiny sample size - we're apparently making sweeping judgements of lamar because of 4 games (3 really because the titans win he was absolutely fine)

Yep, wholly agree. I'd even consider the Chargers game a wash because he wasn't supposed to start and we knew the limitations very well.

We're really looking at the Titans, Titans, and Bills and I think Lamar was more than fine in both Titans games (at worst he wasn't the worst offender in the first Titans game.)

 

[RavensMania]

I can respect this. Defense is what wins close games. There are examples of all situations. As you said no defense of any kind in the Philly NE game. But the LA, NE game was exclusively defense. It's more likely than not just a combination of matchups and injury status.

The greater point I was making though, for the most part the days where good defense are consistently keeping teams under 20 is gone. You need to put up a lot points to win.

no question about that and I want to emphasize injury status. Last year the Bengals and the Bills were one of if not the least injured teams in the league and not taking anything away from the Bengals play last year, but the health of the overall team certainly helped.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Disagree. Stop the excuses. Lamar has never had to be the guy in the playoffs to win. He maybe now with our defense in shambles, but historically the D has played well in the playoffs while Lamar has not.
The defense had an amazing game vs the chargers. Especially considering the amount of 3 and outs by the offense. The offense produced nothing until it was to late. But he was a rookie, shit happens with rookies.

2019 was an all around failure vs the titans, no body did their jobs well that day.

Lamar was flat out bad vs the Bills leading up to his injury and on a day when the defense(and the weather) stifled the Bills high octane offense.

Even in our win Vs the Titans, the better unit was the Defense. Completely erased Henry and forced two Tannehill T/Os.

I'll defend Lamar to no end when it comes to being one of the best QBs in the league. Honestly he is the best in my eyes(purple colored glasses?), but I'm tired of the excuses for his playoff failures. Just call a spade a spade, that's doesn't mean we throw in the towel or assume he will never get better, but its ok to admit how bad he was without applying every excuse possible. My guess? In ten years well all look back and laugh at the thought Lamar couldnt win in the playoffs.

2019 titans- everyone was trash
2020 titans- Lamar was trash
2020 bills- Lamar was not trash

 

[JoeyFlex5]

literally - there's a bunch of drops where you can look at them and say, maybe even just one of those turning into a catch changes the entire game

or both the 4th and 1s

The Seth Roberts drop was an absolute back breaker. That was the play that could really turn that game around, a catch there and it’s almost certainly a TD and the titans gameplan has to change up.

 

[Simba]

The Seth Roberts drop was an absolute back breaker. That was the play that could really turn that game around, a catch there and it’s almost certainly a TD and the titans gameplan has to change up.

I'm not a big believer in blaming one play for an entire downfall, but this one is as close as it gets. That drop was a killer and flipped everything.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Who ya got tonight? Dare I put $200 on the Dolphins and Tua?

I feel like a statement game is coming from the bengals and the dolphins laying an egg. Idk why, I just don’t entirely buy the dolphins going 4-0 in a tough early stretch and the bengals going 1-3.

 

[OURavensFan]

Who ya got tonight? Dare I put $200 on the Dolphins and Tua?

TNF is tough on road teams, and the Dolphins had one less day of prep because of the hurricane. There was also a UC student who filmed the dolphins practice and posted it on social media. I think because of all this unfortunately the Bengals and I’ll have to hear the chirping up until SNF, but god forbid not anymore after that game

 

[OURavensFan]

I literally watch games in disbelief this guy is on our team, it’s like having Michael Jordan on your team. Everyone has weaknesses but when you read other teams salivating at the idea of Lamar being available to them, you know you need to lock him up

 

[rossihunter2]

I feel like a statement game is coming from the bengals and the dolphins laying an egg. Idk why, I just don’t entirely buy the dolphins going 4-0 in a tough early stretch and the bengals going 1-3.

i dont like it
but i 100% agree