Lamar Jackson

[RavensMania]

...so my timeline is off by when they COULD negotiate with him, but it's likely still it went something like that given the Mahomes and Watson contracts and when they occured. It doesn't diminish that we were being prudent and also, potentially, giving in the idea of signing him early, but there was an enormous amount of other noise in QB contracts going on that made it fundamentally difficult to get things done.

you need 2 to tango

 

[drjohnnyfever]

My point is that the Mahomes contract after the SB win in 2020 was the first thing we couldn't overcome. We didn't have that kind of offer on Lamar then. That was groundbreaking and we all, almost unanimously here, agreed that it would make things difficult to get things done with Llamar... Then the injury... Watson.

Like how injuries affected us for 2.5 seasons now, we are just victims of circumstance. Left here to pay high or sell.

you need 2 to tango

...but this is such a trite response. They were both tango-ing. And either party can refuse or accept.

If you believe your response, you are basically admitting that one side wasn't negotiating in good faith. I don't believe that. I just think other issues - like those two huge contracts and the fact that Lamar has no agent, have made it impossible to see this thru.

...and my argument makes sense with a top-tier athlete that feels (...and deserves) to be paid well. Whether his bargaining partner want to pay what he think he's worth, remains to be seen. But that IS tango-ing.

 

[Thezone27]

...but this is such a trite response. They were both tango-ing. And either party can refuse or accept.

If you believe your response, you are basically admitting that one side wasn't negotiating in good faith. I don't believe that. I just think other issues - like those two huge contracts and the fact that Lamar has no agent, have made it impossible to see this thru.

...and my argument makes sense with a top-tier athlete that feels (...and deserves) to be paid well. Whether his bargaining partner want to pay what he think he's worth, remains to be seen. But that IS tango-ing.

Edgar Allen, just came out with a new video entitled, "Lamar Jackson's last stanza 2022" and boy is it depressing and desultory. It is about last 10 plays that Jackson played intros season: the first 10 plays vs the Broncos in our *scintillating* 10-9 win. No one comes out looking good here: not Roman, not Harbaugh, not Jackson, not the OL, not Hill or Gus. Duvernay is the talisman here: we see him repeatedly going in motion and then flaring out to the left sideline and going down the field, wide open. Ball never comes to him, Broncos' defenders are ignoring him, and Jackson doesn't even look towards him-until the last play where Jackson gets hurt when he does look at Duv only to have Duv's back turned to Lamar so he isn't in position to receive the ball.

It isn't so much the play design, which actually is okay, but the play calling, overall communication and the execution: this is an offense that has no mojo, no spirit, no clue, just going through the motions with nobody bought into what they need to do. Jackson runs when he shouldn't and he gets sacked twice when he shouldn't and at this point in the season he's not helping. The last play where he injures his knee shouldn't have happened at all as he should have thrown the ball for a decent completion and not get touched at all. God it is awful. Boller-esque bad.

I bring it up in light of Sean Payton yesterday saying that Russell Wilson basically can't have his entourage in the locker room with him and that he has to use the team's trainers etc. Whatever happens to the Ravens' offense next year similar wood needs to be laid down on the offense even if Lamar is back. Particularly if Lamar is back as the culture is bad.

 

[RavensMania]

...but this is such a trite response. They were both tango-ing. And either party can refuse or accept.

If you believe your response, you are basically admitting that one side wasn't negotiating in good faith. I don't believe that. I just think other issues - like those two huge contracts and the fact that Lamar has no agent, have made it impossible to see this thru.

...and my argument makes sense with a top-tier athlete that feels (...and deserves) to be paid well. Whether his bargaining partner want to pay what he think he's worth, remains to be seen. But that IS tango-ing.

i don't believe Lamar wanted to negotiate back then. He was betting on himself, so yes, I do believe my response.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

i don't believe Lamar wanted to negotiate back then. He was betting on himself, so yes, I do believe my response.

...so you're saying Lamar was never tango-ing? That could be the case. Which leaves us, nevertheless, at loggerheads. Probably because of the other noise I described.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

Edgar Allen, just came out with a new video entitled, "Lamar Jackson's last stanza 2022" and boy is it depressing and desultory. It is about last 10 plays that Jackson played intros season: the first 10 plays vs the Broncos in our *scintillating* 10-9 win. No one comes out looking good here: not Roman, not Harbaugh, not Jackson, not the OL, not Hill or Gus. Duvernay is the talisman here: we see him repeatedly going in motion and then flaring out to the left sideline and going down the field, wide open. Ball never comes to him, Broncos' defenders are ignoring him, and Jackson doesn't even look towards him-until the last play where Jackson gets hurt when he does look at Duv only to have Duv's back turned to Lamar so he isn't in position to receive the ball.

It isn't so much the play design, which actually is okay, but the play calling, overall communication and the execution: this is an offense that has no mojo, no spirit, no clue, just going through the motions with nobody bought into what they need to do. Jackson runs when he shouldn't and he gets sacked twice when he shouldn't and at this point in the season he's not helping. The last play where he injures his knee shouldn't have happened at all as he should have thrown the ball for a decent completion and not get touched at all. God it is awful. Boller-esque bad.

I bring it up in light of Sean Payton yesterday saying that Russell Wilson basically can't have his entourage in the locker room with him and that he has to use the team's trainers etc. Whatever happens to the Ravens' offense next year similar wood needs to be laid down on the offense even if Lamar is back. Particularly if Lamar is back as the culture is bad.

Sorry dude. You're in the weeds.

 

[BoredMarine13]

Edgar Allen, just came out with a new video entitled, "Lamar Jackson's last stanza 2022" and boy is it depressing and desultory. It is about last 10 plays that Jackson played intros season: the first 10 plays vs the Broncos in our *scintillating* 10-9 win. No one comes out looking good here: not Roman, not Harbaugh, not Jackson, not the OL, not Hill or Gus. Duvernay is the talisman here: we see him repeatedly going in motion and then flaring out to the left sideline and going down the field, wide open. Ball never comes to him, Broncos' defenders are ignoring him, and Jackson doesn't even look towards him-until the last play where Jackson gets hurt when he does look at Duv only to have Duv's back turned to Lamar so he isn't in position to receive the ball.

It isn't so much the play design, which actually is okay, but the play calling, overall communication and the execution: this is an offense that has no mojo, no spirit, no clue, just going through the motions with nobody bought into what they need to do. Jackson runs when he shouldn't and he gets sacked twice when he shouldn't and at this point in the season he's not helping. The last play where he injures his knee shouldn't have happened at all as he should have thrown the ball for a decent completion and not get touched at all. God it is awful. Boller-esque bad.

I bring it up in light of Sean Payton yesterday saying that Russell Wilson basically can't have his entourage in the locker room with him and that he has to use the team's trainers etc. Whatever happens to the Ravens' offense next year similar wood needs to be laid down on the offense even if Lamar is back. Particularly if Lamar is back as the culture is bad.

Lamar’s weakness has alway been his intelligence. He doesn’t see things pre play like the field generals of the league do. He is a reactionary freak athlete and it works for him, but he often leaves a lot of plays on the field. To often locks in on one aspect of the play and if it’s not there he then turns to hero ball

 

[SepticeyePoe]

 

[Tank]

He would have wanted to leave, like Hollywood.

Hollywood leaving was a mutual decision. Higgins being a better player I think would have been used differently and been much more welcomed($).

 

[Tank]

...but this is such a trite response. They were both tango-ing. And either party can refuse or accept.

If you believe your response, you are basically admitting that one side wasn't negotiating in good faith. I don't believe that. I just think other issues - like those two huge contracts and the fact that Lamar has no agent, have made it impossible to see this thru.

...and my argument makes sense with a top-tier athlete that feels (...and deserves) to be paid well. Whether his bargaining partner want to pay what he think he's worth, remains to be seen. But that IS tango-ing.

i don't believe Lamar wanted to negotiate back then. He was betting on himself, so yes, I do believe my response.

I continue to maintain that if Lamar had an agent he would have been extended a year or two ago, ultimately making more $ than he has to this point. Also feel it likely he would have performed better without the contract thing weighing on him, obviously the team benefitting as well.

 

[rmcjacket23]

...but this is such a trite response. They were both tango-ing. And either party can refuse or accept.

If you believe your response, you are basically admitting that one side wasn't negotiating in good faith. I don't believe that. I just think other issues - like those two huge contracts and the fact that Lamar has no agent, have made it impossible to see this thru.

...and my argument makes sense with a top-tier athlete that feels (...and deserves) to be paid well. Whether his bargaining partner want to pay what he think he's worth, remains to be seen. But that IS tango-ing.

In terms of the "two to tango thing"...
a) I don't think Lamar had any intentions of signing after 2020 season. He knew where Covid was pushing the cap, and he probably knew its better to wait a year or two before signing.
b) I think he absolutely wanted to sign last offseason, but the Watson deal basically blew up his perception of what type of contract he could get
c) people will tell you that players don't need agents. I think those people are full of shit and don't know what they're talking about. Rookies don't need agents, because their contracts are slotted. Aging veterans signing the last deals of their careers don't need agents, because they're not getting any significant gtd $ anyway and can tie a lot of their performance to incentives.
Franchise QBs signing the first major contract of their career will unanimously be better served having agents.
If nothing else, as I've alluded to before, his negotiating window is longer. Agents would have pressed him to sign a lucrative deal sooner, AND, most importantly, agents would be able to negotiate in September, October, November, December and January, when Lamar has largely been unwilling to.

When you reduce the window you're willing to negotiate down by like 40%, it just makes getting a deal done that much more complicated.

 

[Thezone27]

In terms of the "two to tango thing"...
a) I don't think Lamar had any intentions of signing after 2020 season. He knew where Covid was pushing the cap, and he probably knew its better to wait a year or two before signing.
b) I think he absolutely wanted to sign last offseason, but the Watson deal basically blew up his perception of what type of contract he could get
c) people will tell you that players don't need agents. I think those people are full of shit and don't know what they're talking about. Rookies don't need agents, because their contracts are slotted. Aging veterans signing the last deals of their careers don't need agents, because they're not getting any significant gtd $ anyway and can tie a lot of their performance to incentives.
Franchise QBs signing the first major contract of their career will unanimously be better served having agents.
If nothing else, as I've alluded to before, his negotiating window is longer. Agents would have pressed him to sign a lucrative deal sooner, AND, most importantly, agents would be able to negotiate in September, October, November, December and January, when Lamar has largely been unwilling to.

When you reduce the window you're willing to negotiate down by like 40%, it just makes getting a deal done that much more complicated.

For some, like Lamar, agents are necessary. For others, like Roquan, they aren't. Look, Lamar isn't the best QB in the league. He's good, but he isn't as good as let's say, Patrick Mahomes. SO if he says "I am better then el diablo, so I should get 50m/year fully gtd" Baltimore can just say "Mahomes is better, so you can get 44m a year 60% gtd" and if Lamar isn't willing to back down then it shows just how much he needs an agent.

 

[rmcjacket23]

For some, like Lamar, agents are necessary. For others, like Roquan, they aren't. Look, Lamar isn't the best QB in the league. He's good, but he isn't as good as let's say, Patrick Mahomes. SO if he says "I am better then el diablo, so I should get 50m/year fully gtd" Baltimore can just say "Mahomes is better, so you can get 44m a year 60% gtd" and if Lamar isn't willing to back down then it shows just how much he needs an agent.

I mean realistically he should make more than Mahomes in terms of AAV and probably gtd money, because Mahomes deal is a couple years stale and the market has increased since then. That's not the issue.

Agents keep the players on this planet. They keep them from having unreasonable expectations, they keep them grounded in what Owners/GMs are going to do and what they're not going to do.

 

[Deebo813]

I mean realistically he should make more than Mahomes in terms of AAV and probably gtd money, because Mahomes deal is a couple years stale and the market has increased since then. That's not the issue.

Agents keep the players on this planet. They keep them from having unreasonable expectations, they keep them grounded in what Owners/GMs are going to do and what they're not going to do.

No such thing as unreasonable expectations when youre the position that lamar is in..not saying he should ask for a billion dollars but, whatever he is asking for, no one can tell him its unreasonable..fk an agent

 

[rmcjacket23]

No such thing as unreasonable expectations when youre the position that lamar is in..not saying he should ask for a billion dollars but, whatever he is asking for, no one can tell him its unreasonable..fk an agent

I mean NFL teams can tell him its unreasonable, since they're the one's that pay him the $.
And right now, there's only one team that controls what he can and can't do. So if they say its unreasonable, as of today, that's the end of the discussion. He'll make the franchise tag amount or he'll make nothing.

No matter what any other bullshit people say, there's only three versions of events that can occur this year:
1. Lamar plays for the Ravens at a contractually agreed upon amount. That's either an extension that both parties agree to, or the franchise tag, which Lamar agreed to when he signed his rookie contract.
2. Lamar plays for whatever team the Ravens agree to trade him to.
3. Lamar doesn't play at all.

Lamar can ask for literally anything he wants. He's not in a position of power to get it, however. That's kind of how expectations work. There's what you expect to happen, and then there's what actually happens.

 

[Deebo813]

I mean NFL teams can tell him its unreasonable, since they're the one's that pay him the $.
And right now, there's only one team that controls what he can and can't do. So if they say its unreasonable, as of today, that's the end of the discussion. He'll make the franchise tag amount or he'll make nothing.

No matter what any other bullshit people say, there's only three versions of events that can occur this year:
1. Lamar plays for the Ravens at a contractually agreed upon amount. That's either an extension that both parties agree to, or the franchise tag, which Lamar agreed to when he signed his rookie contract.
2. Lamar plays for whatever team the Ravens agree to trade him to.
3. Lamar doesn't play at all.

Lamar can ask for literally anything he wants. He's not in a position of power to get it, however. That's kind of how expectations work. There's what you expect to happen, and then there's what actually happens.

If ravens dnt wanna meet his expectations… he can go to a team that will correct?

 

[rmcjacket23]

If ravens dnt wanna meet his expectations… he can go to a team that will correct?

Not really. What happens if no team meets his expectations? He can lower them, or not play. Expectations don't necessarily turn into reality just because somebody wants them to. He doesn't fully control his compensation demands, because he's not his own boss. He requires other people to pay him.

If we're being practical, 2025 is the first time he would "theoretically" get to choose who he plays for. Ravens control him the next two years via the franchise tag, and if the Ravens don't want to control him, they will trade him, which means Lamar doesn't get 31 other teams to pick from. He gets the limited # of teams the Ravens would be willing to trade him to.

 

[Deebo813]

Not really. What happens if no team meets his expectations? He can lower them, or not play. Expectations don't necessarily turn into reality just because somebody wants them to. He doesn't fully control his compensation demands, because he's not his own boss. He requires other people to pay him.

If we're being practical, 2025 is the first time he would "theoretically" get to choose who he plays for. Ravens control him the next two years via the franchise tag, and if the Ravens don't want to control him, they will trade him, which means Lamar doesn't get 31 other teams to pick from. He gets the limited # of teams the Ravens would be willing to trade him to.

I understand what youre saying but im 100% sure what ravens arent willing to pay, another team will.. i mean its really as simple as that.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I understand what youre saying but im 100% sure what ravens arent willing to pay, another team will.. i mean its really as simple as that.

Depends on what he's asking for. If he's asking for the Watson contract, I'm confident no other team will give him that. Seen nothing close to evidence so far that makes me think the Watson deal is the new norm for franchise NFL QBs.

If Lamar is asking for something more realistic, and the Ravens won't pay, sure, I agree, another team will. But its unlikely it'll be up to Lamar who that team will be.

 

[Simba]

Depends on what he's asking for. If he's asking for the Watson contract, I'm confident no other team will give him that. Seen nothing close to evidence so far that makes me think the Watson deal is the new norm for franchise NFL QBs.

If Lamar is asking for something more realistic, and the Ravens won't pay, sure, I agree, another team will. But its unlikely it'll be up to Lamar who that team will be.

This is where I'm at. Could very well be wrong at the end of the day, but I just don't see a team blowing every other team's offer out of the water. Think a lot of people underestimate owner collusion in this instance. Don't doubt there's a team out there that would be willing to pay more than the Ravens, but just don't see it being an egregious amount.