Lamar Jackson

[ravenslord]

He didn't miss games with some recurring injuries. He got hit.
And he did not get hit running when that happened nor did he take á lot'of hits during his 5 years.

You really are full of shit, particularly when you say Lamar is your favourite player because every time that continues with 'but.......', followed by baseless or inaccurate 'facts'.

Get your free Ravens pacifiers . You gonna need em when Lamar is traded . Wahhhhhhh .

 

[BoredMarine13]

Sure, but how about the 5 years before that? Or the 10 years before that?

Long term model is predicated on high-end QB play. We've basically had that for maybe 4 years of the last 10, at most.

I disagree again, the Ravens model didn't change between Flacco's twilight years and Lamar's arrival. It was more of the same risk averse approach (moderate free agency additions, balanced projected cap hits, heavy dependency on draftees having an immediate impact).

IMO we screwed up big time with Lamar by not taking the LA/Tampa approach between 2020-2021. 2019 should have been a wake up call to go all in immediately when we watched Lamar really shine. . Sure the bill comes due, and cap hell is inevitable, but I personally wouldn't care if we had a championship during that window. Now that window is closed and well be penny pinching and forced to be near perfect in the draft.

 

[Michael M.]

I disagree again, the Ravens model didn't change between Flacco's twilight years and Lamar's arrival. It was more of the same risk averse approach (moderate free agency additions, balanced projected cap hits, heavy dependency on draftees having an immediate impact).

IMO we screwed up big time with Lamar by not taking the LA/Tampa approach between 2020-2021. 2019 should have been a wake up call to go all in immediately when we watched Lamar really shine. . Sure the bill comes due, and cap hell is inevitable, but I personally wouldn't care if we had a championship during that window. Now that window is closed and well be penny pinching and forced to be near perfect in the draft.

So why do you think the Raven's held back then? In hindsight it would made have sense.

 

[gtalk12]

I disagree again, the Ravens model didn't change between Flacco's twilight years and Lamar's arrival. It was more of the same risk averse approach (moderate free agency additions, balanced projected cap hits, heavy dependency on draftees having an immediate impact).

IMO we screwed up big time with Lamar by not taking the LA/Tampa approach between 2020-2021. 2019 should have been a wake up call to go all in immediately when we watched Lamar really shine. . Sure the bill comes due, and cap hell is inevitable, but I personally wouldn't care if we had a championship during that window. Now that window is closed and well be penny pinching and forced to be near perfect in the draft.

It was the injury bug that got us more than anything to be honest. The 2021 season is filled with what ifs.

Would more weapons help? Absolutely, does it have to come from a high end WR? No. I think it's clear that Lamar does not need as many weapons as some others around the league. We would have to draft his weapons and hit on those picks.

I mean could we have had Hopkins a few years ago? Maybe. But if Bateman, Dobbins, and Gus, Stanley were healthy than an offense with all those guys and Hollywood/Andrews would have been explosive.

We got very unlucky for a short stretch and there is nothing that could have been done about that.

 

[BoredMarine13]

So why do you think the Raven's held back then? In hindsight it would made have sense.

Because they are an intelligent organization the prioritizes fiscal responsibility and long term "success".

Easy for me to say , as a fan, just go all in. I'm not writing the checks or dealing with an unhappy fan base when the bill comes due. From my fan perspective though its worth it

 

[ndub]

Get your free Ravens pacifiers . You gonna need em when Lamar is traded . Wahhhhhhh .

View attachment 4531

Sir, I would be absolutely honored if you joined #SizzleCult

@Thezone27 what do you think??

 

[BoredMarine13]

It was the injury bug that got us more than anything to be honest. The 2021 season is filled with what ifs.

Would more weapons help? Absolutely, does it have to come from a high end WR? No. I think it's clear that Lamar does not need as many weapons as some others around the league. We would have to draft his weapons and hit on those picks.

I mean could we have had Hopkins a few years ago? Maybe. But if Bateman, Dobbins, and Gus, Stanley were healthy than an offense with all those guys and Hollywood/Andrews would have been explosive.

We got very unlucky for a short stretch and there is nothing that could have been done about that.

Injuries played a role obviously but many of our holes at the time were well known in the off season. The FO just wasn't willing to deviate from the current path. Prime example is our unwillingness to part with draft picks to improve areas of weakness.

Again, I'm just a dumb emotional fan, but I think we missed a golden opportunity post 2019. You absolutely sell out to win that championship in the two year window following that. Instead we trotted out a beat up O line and Brown, Snead, Boykin, and Duv...

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'm no Jones fan either, and they may not keep him long term, but at least he gives them stability at the position and money to continue building the team.

Right, but he gets more expensive though. The reason they've been able to do that is because they're not paying him anything.

They'd also have the $ if they went back into the draft to find a QB. And I'm not sure it would be that difficult to find another Daniel Jones (or better).

 

[gtalk12]

Injuries played a role obviously but many of our holes at the time were well known in the off season. The FO just wasn't willing to deviate from the current path. Prime example is our unwillingness to part with draft picks to improve areas of weakness.

Again, I'm just a dumb emotional fan, but I think we missed a golden opportunity post 2019. You absolutely sell out to win that championship in the two year window following that. Instead we trotted out a beat up O line and Brown, Snead, Boykin, and Duv...

I wonder how it would have shaped out to have taken Higgins in the 1st instead of Queen

We had the 3rd ranked defense that MVP year.

Judon walked after that year

 

[Michael M.]

I wonder how it would have shaped out to have taken Higgins in the 1st instead of Queen

He would have wanted to leave, like Hollywood.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Well actually I don't know that Lamar is in the league of those guys yet, since they did it for longer than Lamar did.

As for the $, smart people care. Smart people don't want to win one and then suck for the next several years, like the Rams are and will continue to do.
Other teams have the same struggles. Bills didn't advance in the playoffs because beyond Diggs, they have literally nothing. Just a bunch of JAGs up and down their offense. And it showed.
When Mahomes got expensive, they shipped off Tyreek and gave him a hodge-podge of incredibly pedestrian NFL WRs and Kelce. Doesn't seem to matter there either, because Mahomes is the MJ comp, not Lamar.
When Aaron Rodgers got expensive, they shipped off Adams and gave him a ton of rookies and Alan Lazard. And it showed.

Think you need to take a look around the league and see what's really going on. The teams "loaded with weapons" are the 49ers, Eagles and Bengals over the world, who aren't paying their QBs dick.

When you make Mahomes who is the quintessential Isaiah Thomas comp into an MJ comp, you clearly are clueless about MJ and his talent and are extremely undermining Lamar's talent for reasons beyond my comprehension. Enough arguing with you, sir.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree again, the Ravens model didn't change between Flacco's twilight years and Lamar's arrival. It was more of the same risk averse approach (moderate free agency additions, balanced projected cap hits, heavy dependency on draftees having an immediate impact).

IMO we screwed up big time with Lamar by not taking the LA/Tampa approach between 2020-2021. 2019 should have been a wake up call to go all in immediately when we watched Lamar really shine. . Sure the bill comes due, and cap hell is inevitable, but I personally wouldn't care if we had a championship during that window. Now that window is closed and well be penny pinching and forced to be near perfect in the draft.

So while I agree with the premise, the two problems with those years were that they were Covid years. By the time FA opens for 2020, Owners are really just focused on trying to find ways to cut costs and not lose money. By 2021, the salary cap had also dropped.

I agree the FO probably could have done a better job of pushing costs into future years, but for 2021 specifically, I doubt it would have mattered. Additions wouldn't have hid the injuries, and that team was going nowhere with those injuries.

So I think you would have seen the ultimate failure, which was pushing your chips in and then not succeeding.

 

[rmcjacket23]

When you make Mahomes who is the quintessential Isaiah Thomas comp into an MJ comp, you clearly are clueless about MJ and his talent and are extremely undermining Lamar's talent for reasons beyond my comprehension. Enough arguing with you, sir.

Well talent also comes with winning in big spots. MJ did a lot of that. So has Mahomes. Lamar hasn't.

That's where the MJ comp gets written off for me.

I certainly agree its beyond your comprehension though.

 

[ravenslord]

no it wouldn't. It's all about the structure of the contract.

You can structure your contract with this .Direct from the Goose ,RIP.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

Injuries played a role obviously but many of our holes at the time were well known in the off season. The FO just wasn't willing to deviate from the current path. Prime example is our unwillingness to part with draft picks to improve areas of weakness.

Again, I'm just a dumb emotional fan, but I think we missed a golden opportunity post 2019. You absolutely sell out to win that championship in the two year window following that. Instead we trotted out a beat up O line and Brown, Snead, Boykin, and Duv...

So I think this is a good review of what happened. I have no doubt that the Ravens offered Lamar something after the 2019 season. It was probably a good package, but it wasn't Mahomes that was signed that offseason. At the time, that was the crazy. And seeing that contract and having the season he did whatever the Ravens offered which certainly wasn't THAT. Lamar bets on himself. Fine. Good for Lamar. He gets injured the next season. Ravens still probably have a nice deal on the table or something to negotiate with and then the Land of fucking Cleve inserts itself into FA by giving a hay-UGE-ly over paid guarantee to a douchebag. Lamar says to himself, "I'm not a douchebag. I'm younger and better. I deserve more." Or probably something like that, while the Ravens and other teams are still living in the real world of negotiating contracts rather than cavalierly throwing money at any whim that comes along.

It was a comedy of errors. A convergence of unforseeable events. The Ravens and Lamar are victims of circumstance and those circumstances will sadly lead to a separation. As sad as that is.

 

[rossihunter2]

So I think this is a good review of what happened. I have no doubt that the Ravens offered Lamar something after the 2019 season. It was probably a good package, but it wasn't Mahomes that was signed that offseason. At the time, that was the crazy. And seeing that contract and having the season he did whatever the Ravens offered which certainly wasn't THAT. Lamar bets on himself. Fine. Good for Lamar. He gets injured the next season. Ravens still probably have a nice deal on the table or something to negotiate with and then the Land of fucking Cleve inserts itself into FA by giving a hay-UGE-ly over paid guarantee to a douchebag. Lamar says to himself, "I'm not a douchebag. I'm younger and better. I deserve more." Or probably something like that, while the Ravens and other teams are still living in the real world of negotiating contracts rather than cavalierly throwing money at any whim that comes along.

It was a comedy of errors. A convergence of unforseeable events. The Ravens and Lamar are victims of circumstance and those circumstances will sadly lead to a separation. As sad as that is.

ravens werent allowed to negotiate with lamar until the offseason after his 3rd season which was the 2020 season

 

[Thezone27]

ravens werent allowed to negotiate with lamar until the offseason after his 3rd season which was the 2020 season

Ok, so just take a step back and put that on edit mode, then.

 

[BoredMarine13]

So while I agree with the premise, the two problems with those years were that they were Covid years. By the time FA opens for 2020, Owners are really just focused on trying to find ways to cut costs and not lose money. By 2021, the salary cap had also dropped.

yea thats a good point , forgot that was COVID times

 

[drjohnnyfever]

ravens werent allowed to negotiate with lamar until the offseason after his 3rd season which was the 2020 season

...so my timeline is off by when they COULD negotiate with him, but it's likely still it went something like that given the Mahomes and Watson contracts and when they occured. It doesn't diminish that we were being prudent and also, potentially, giving in the idea of signing him early, but there was an enormous amount of other noise in QB contracts going on that made it fundamentally difficult to get things done.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

ravens werent allowed to negotiate with lamar until the offseason after his 3rd season which was the 2020 season

...so my timeline is off by when they COULD negotiate with him, but it's likely still it went something like that given the Mahomes and Watson contracts and when they occured. It doesn't diminish that we were being prudent and also, potentially, giving in the idea of signing him early, but there was an enormous amount of other noise in QB contracts going on that made it fundamentally difficult to get things done.

My point is that the Mahomes contract after the SB win in 2020 was the first thing we couldn't overcome. We didn't have that kind of offer on Lamar then. That was groundbreaking and we all, almost unanimously here, agreed that it would make things difficult to get things done with Llamar... Then the injury... Watson.

Like how injuries affected us for 2.5 seasons now, we are just victims of circumstance. Left here to pay high or sell.