Lamar Jackson

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah I should have been more detailed there. Would imagine in that scenario, $175M is tied across 3-5 years - signing bonus (length of contract) and base salaries (years 1-3). Just gets hard to move money around later in the life of the contract. That's why those roster bonuses are so popular... really easy to take that money, pay it out at the same time, but lengthen the cap hit by converting it to a signing bonus instead.

Right. Obviously the "grand plan" is he plays well, you do another extension when he's in like year 3-4 of the deal he just signed, and then you convert non-guaranteed salaries in those years into bonuses, and prorate another 5 years. Rinse, repeat until the player retires. Then you just take the big cap hit at the end in a 1-2 year period and move on.

 

[Simba]

So looks like the Ravens have a little wiggle room to improve the offer, aka some of that $200M kicking in earlier.

 

[JAAM]

 

[BoredMarine13]

Lol Good for Hurts though , perfect time to cash in after the SB run. I bet he never replicates that

 

[JAAM]

Browns fans are a funny bunch

 

[JO_75]

Jalen Hurts deal is first to the table!

5 years, $255M total with about $180M guaranteed ($110M at signing). Bar has been set. Let's see if this helps us at all.

Offer this straight up to Lamar... if he and the NFLPA and whoever is advising him says to reject it.... let him walk.

 

[Tank]

Marketing campaign is over LJ. Pack away that gym in the can and all of the witty tweets. Earn that money son. Buckle up that chin strap and play football dammit! Let's go!

 

[JO_75]

So obviously we still have Burrow, Herbert and Lamar but where do all three eventually slot in here? Mahomes I imagine will get a new contract soon that makes him the highest paid QB with his two Super Bowls and MVPs. I feel like Mahomes is eventually going to top everyone regardless what Lamar, Burrow or Herbert get.

 

[Simba]

So obviously we still have Burrow, Herbert and Lamar but where do all three eventually slot in here? Mahomes I imagine will get a new contract soon that makes him the highest paid QB with his two Super Bowls and MVPs. I feel like Mahomes is eventually going to top everyone regardless what Lamar, Burrow or Herbert get.

AAV never really matters. Next guy will probably get $52M and then the next $53M. It's just fluff to seem like the biggest contract in the league.

 

[JO_75]

I was very bored.......... I may or may not finish it depending on how much I want Avril Lavigne's song stuck in my head lol. I've listened to this so much trying to make everything work with the music but this is all I got so far.

Chill out, whatcha Tweetin' for?
Lay back, it's all been done before
And if Lamar could only let it be, he will see
We like him the way he is
When he's Rushin' down the field
And he's Breaking ankles one-on-one
But he becomes

Somebody else 'round everyone else
He's watchin' his back like he can't relax
He's tryin' to be cool
He looks like a fool to me
Tell me

Why'd he have to go and make things so complicated?
I see the way he's
Actin' like he's Pat Mahomes, gets me frustrated
Life's like this, you
And you fall, and you crawl, and you break
And you take what you get
And you turn it into honesty
And now you want Jalen Money
No, no, no

 

[Militant X 1]

Well, to be clear, the gtd $ at signing isn't just one bonus. It's bonuses and salaries combined. Nobody is giving a $175M signing bonus. I don't think anybody has come close to a $100M signing bonus. Not saying you don't know this, but more educational for the group.

Kyler's deal had $103.3M gtd at signing. That's comprised of:
$29.0M signing bonus
2022 base salary = $965K
2023 base salary = $2M
2023 roster bonus = $36M
2024 salary = $35.3M

So his gtd at signing $ is spread over three years, in the form of $65M in two different bonuses, and $38.3M in base salaries.

Wilson's deal had $124M gtd at signing: That's comprised of:
$50M signing bonus
2022 base salary = $2M
2022 roster bonus = $5M
2023 base salary = $8M
2023 option bonus = $20MThis
2024 salary = $17M
2024 option bonus = $22M

With most of these long term deals, the gtd at signing $ is the only thing that's fully guaranteed, and its almost always paid out over 3 years. Hence the emphasis from Lamar on 3/133. It means even in the structure that Schefter reported, which was 5/260, the $133M is what's fully guaranteed, and what he would make in the first three years.

I think people tend to confused that the guaranteed at signing $ = what X player gets when he signs. That's rarely how it works. He's not getting $133M in a lump sum when he puts pen to paper. NFL Owners are rich and so are teams, but no Owner is going to pay out a bonus up front that large.

This cleared up a lot for me. This was awesome. Thanks!

 

[allblackraven]

Plus rapist forgot Lamar did this with half a receiver.

 

[Adreme]

Plus rapist forgot Lamar did this with half a receiver.

All that chart demonstrated was the known inflation to QB stats. Just as an example over the past the average QB rating has risen 10 points.

The other problem is that he is only saying what every defensive game plan has shown to be true: teams want to force Lamar to throw instead of run. Nobody was daring Ben to pass, in his prime they dared him to run. That is a fundamentally different way of playing defense and we all know it is true and the coordinators are not hiding that they are doing it.

Teams fear Lamar’s legs; they don’t fear his arm, so they sacrifice defending against the arm to try and take away the legs. This doesn’t make Lamar a worse QB, as he is using the tools in his toolkit to maximize his production. The fact that with the threat of those legs can have his production passing be comparable to a long term franchise QB is a good mark in his favor.

Also while we focus on WRs, Andrews is better than any TE Ben had, by far, and the OLine of the past 5 years is better than anything Ben had his first decade in the league.

 

[Ellicottraven]

All that chart demonstrated was the known inflation to QB stats. Just as an example over the past the average QB rating has risen 10 points.

The other problem is that he is only saying what every defensive game plan has shown to be true: teams want to force Lamar to throw instead of run. Nobody was daring Ben to pass, in his prime they dared him to run. That is a fundamentally different way of playing defense and we all know it is true and the coordinators are not hiding that they are doing it.

Teams fear Lamar’s legs; they don’t fear his arm, so they sacrifice defending against the arm to try and take away the legs. This doesn’t make Lamar a worse QB, as he is using the tools in his toolkit to maximize his production. The fact that with the threat of those legs can have his production passing be comparable to a long term franchise QB is a good mark in his favor.

Also while we focus on WRs, Andrews is better than any TE Ben had, by far, and the OLine of the past 5 years is better than anything Ben had his first decade in the league.

Who are you? A Steelers fan? Or do you just hate Lamar? You've gone through a lot of work to defend Big Rapelisberger and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. What is the deal @Adreme? Why?

 

[rmcjacket23]

Who are you? A Steelers fan? Or do you just hate Lamar? You've gone through a lot of work to defend Big Rapelisberger and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. What is the deal @Adreme? Why?

Well, mostly, because what Ben said isn't really wrong. I don't think any team that schemes to stop Lamar focus on trying to take away his ability to throw the football. I think they'll scheme to take away his TEs and flood the middle of the field, but keeping Lamar in the pocket is precisely what teams typically want when they play us.

 

[redrum52]

All that chart demonstrated was the known inflation to QB stats. Just as an example over the past the average QB rating has risen 10 points.

The other problem is that he is only saying what every defensive game plan has shown to be true: teams want to force Lamar to throw instead of run. Nobody was daring Ben to pass, in his prime they dared him to run. That is a fundamentally different way of playing defense and we all know it is true and the coordinators are not hiding that they are doing it.

Teams fear Lamar’s legs; they don’t fear his arm, so they sacrifice defending against the arm to try and take away the legs. This doesn’t make Lamar a worse QB, as he is using the tools in his toolkit to maximize his production. The fact that with the threat of those legs can have his production passing be comparable to a long term franchise QB is a good mark in his favor.

Also while we focus on WRs, Andrews is better than any TE Ben had, by far, and the OLine of the past 5 years is better than anything Ben had his first decade in the league.

If we're going off name not production his OLs were pretty comparable. TE we easily have them and they blow us out the water in wr production.

As for Ben statement... but the STATS! We all know what he means even if the numbers say different and he's not wrong. That said... why can't this argument also be used about his numbers and "first ballot" criteria?

 

[QtR Nevermore]

All that chart demonstrated was the known inflation to QB stats. Just as an example over the past the average QB rating has risen 10 points.

There has been a general league wide passing stat inflation, mostly as a result of improved offensive schemes and play calling. (Ben wasn't playing with old style coverage rules either.)

However, I don't think we need to caveat Lamar's stats compared to Ben's. Do we really think Lamar was the beneficiary of this new passing game design efficiency in Greg Roman's offense? Or Marty's? The Steelers haven't had great offensive minds either but they have had much better weapons.

 

[Tank]

There has been a general league wide passing stat inflation, mostly as a result of improved offensive schemes and play calling. (Ben wasn't playing with old style coverage rules either.)

However, I don't think we need to caveat Lamar's stats compared to Ben's. Do we really think Lamar was the beneficiary of this new passing game design efficiency in Greg Roman's offense? Or Marty's? The Steelers haven't had great offensive minds either but they have had much better weapons.

GRo's scheme takes a lot of abuse but let's not forget how prolific the run game was 2019 and 2020. Success passing both years, especially 2019, was definitely enhanced due to teams having to respect the run.

 

[SaltyDog]

Well, mostly, because what Ben said isn't really wrong. I don't think any team that schemes to stop Lamar focus on trying to take away his ability to throw the football. I think they'll scheme to take away his TEs and flood the middle of the field, but keeping Lamar in the pocket is precisely what teams typically want when they play us.

I agree, it’s not rocket science. The defense will always focus on taking away your strength. You can blame Harbaugh, Roman, or whomever, but this offense, at least since Lamar has been here, has not been built to be a prolific passing team.

The biggest problem I have with that comparison is that Lamar’s sample size is too small with respect to big Ben. If you want to compare first 5 years for both then maybe it looks different. And the obvious difference is that they are very different style QB’s.

 

[gtalk12]

There has been a general league wide passing stat inflation, mostly as a result of improved offensive schemes and play calling. (Ben wasn't playing with old style coverage rules either.)

However, I don't think we need to caveat Lamar's stats compared to Ben's. Do we really think Lamar was the beneficiary of this new passing game design efficiency in Greg Roman's offense? Or Marty's? The Steelers haven't had great offensive minds either but they have had much better weapons.

Bruce Arians was their OC until 2011 ish